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Nachtengel
Tuesday, January 27th, 2009, 09:53 AM
Poll for the men members of Skadi. Do you prefer a woman who shaves her body hair or a woman who leaves it growing? Do you prefer the 20th century smoothness or the ancient Viking look?

hildolf
Tuesday, January 27th, 2009, 10:34 AM
I guess I'm conditioned to prefer a lady who shaves. Not everywhere mind!

But then again when my girlfriend hasn't shaved for a few day's and gets a bit hairy, she is more bothered by this then me.

Sigurd
Tuesday, January 27th, 2009, 11:00 AM
I don't think that this poll really has enough options to answer, it only allows for the black and white options and the "I couldn't care less" option. What about the lads who would want some hair to be shaven, but don't mind or are even partial about keeping some other, be that "axillary hair and leg hair off, but leave pubic hair where it is" or be that "trimmed hair throughout" or any other "midway" option.

Let's face it, whilst I am really not fussed either way, when it comes to actual preference I must say that I'm one of those who doesn't tend to prefer either extreme. I would prefer if a girl did take a little care of it to some extent when and where it seems opportunous, but I wouldn't want her to look like a prepubescent girl either. :shrug

Nachtengel
Tuesday, January 27th, 2009, 11:03 AM
I don't think that this poll really has enough options to answer, it only allows for the black and white options and the "I couldn't care less" option. What about the lads who would want some hair to be shaven, but don't mind or are even partial about keeping some other, be that "axillary hair and leg hair off, but leave pubic hair where it is" or be that "trimmed hair throughout" or any other "midway" option.

Let's face it, whilst I am really not fussed either way, when it comes to actual preference I must say that I'm one of those who doesn't tend to prefer either extreme. I would prefer if a girl did take a little care of it to some extent when and where it seems opportunous, but I wouldn't want her to look like a prepubescent girl either. :shrug
There is an "other" option. ;)

Haereticus
Tuesday, January 27th, 2009, 11:10 AM
If a woman asked me wax my chest, so that, presumably, I might look more like an adolescent, I wouldn't be very happy. Likewise the pre-pubecenct look on a woman just doesn't do it for me. I prefer a woman to be natural. So long as there isn't so much hair that it gets 'in the way' ;)

SwordOfTheVistula
Tuesday, January 27th, 2009, 12:23 PM
Shave it off...all of it!

Thusnelda
Tuesday, January 27th, 2009, 01:46 PM
Shave it off...all of it!

Then have fun with Britney Spears...

http://www.pjlighthouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/britney_spears_shaving-hair-bald.jpg

*fg* :P

SwordOfTheVistula
Wednesday, January 28th, 2009, 12:53 PM
Then have fun with Britney Spears...

http://www.pjlighthouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/britney_spears_shaving-hair-bald.jpg

*fg* :P

That's not 'body' hair :D

Hrodnand
Wednesday, January 28th, 2009, 02:23 PM
Let's face it, whilst I am really not fussed either way, when it comes to actual preference I must say that I'm one of those who doesn't tend to prefer either extreme. I would prefer if a girl did take a little care of it to some extent when and where it seems opportunous, but I wouldn't want her to look like a prepubescent girl either. :shrug

Yes, I share the same preference. Either extremes are not the types I like. So "other" goes for me.

FinstererStreiter
Thursday, January 29th, 2009, 09:47 AM
Women look better with body hairs. Sure, they can get rid of their hairs on the legs or their underarm hairs, but pubic hair is what makes a woman a woman. Its a crucial aspect. In my current relationship Ive persuaded my girlfriend to let it grow because I want a woman and no girlish character from MTV "Made" or similar degenerating shows.

And get away with lolish examples of medish women: Nordish women look perfect with body hair. They emphasize their feminity. What a pity that I cannot show a proper example here due to the counting rules.

Einarr
Tuesday, December 1st, 2009, 02:08 PM
Don't mean to raise the dead, but I saw this in related of the short hair thread. I voted no preference, because I honestly do not mind either way. I don't think I would want a girl to be completely shaven, as in totally hairless minus her head. But other than that it doesn't matter to me.

If I love a girl and she decides that she doesn't want to shave anymore, it's not going to change how I feel about her. It's only natural anyway, I mean that's the way nature intended for her to be. Shaving body hair wasn't even really done up until the early/mid 20th century right? It has just become a societal norm, not something that is invariably correct. Unconditional love (within reason) is very important to me anyway, so body hair wouldn't be a problem.

Likewise, if I met a girl who I felt very drawn to, and attracted to, finding out that she doesn't shave is not going to get in the way. I may question her motives though, as in her reasoning has to be that she chooses to be natural, and not that something is mentally wrong with her.

Maybe I'm just more traditional, I don't know.

hodekin
Tuesday, December 1st, 2009, 02:54 PM
I like women to be women, not plucked chickens!;)


hodekin

Resist
Tuesday, December 1st, 2009, 07:52 PM
It depends on the colour and thickness of the hair. Dark, thick body hair is a turn off in my opinion. So anything other than blond should be shaved, at least the armpits and legs in summer.

treksj
Tuesday, December 1st, 2009, 08:00 PM
Body hair is a sign of masculinity to me. A man who shaves his body hair is questionable. So needless to say, I find women who don't shave their body hair unattractive. There are some feminist women I know who refuse to shave their armpit hair because they think it's sexist for men to have such expectations of them. Men and women are different, and paying attention to your figure is a sign of feminity. Not in the exaggerate sense of Hollywoodian looks, but making themselves pretty for us nonetheless. A man who spends too much time in the bathroom or looks too much in the mirror is likewise questionable.

Thusnelda
Tuesday, December 1st, 2009, 08:10 PM
If I love a girl and she decides that she doesn't want to shave anymore, it's not going to change how I feel about her. It's only natural anyway, I mean that's the way nature intended for her to be.
Im glad that someone from the male fraction voices his opinion that openly. :thumbup Nowadays most people either go with the modern trend (here: in favour of shaving body hairs everywhere; like it is a plague or severe illness) or are just too embarrassed to express their opinion because theyre afraid of being attacked as an outsider or weirdo.

Shaving body hair wasn't even really done up until the early/mid 20th century right? It has just become a societal norm, not something that is invariably correct.
Thats right. The trend of shaving body hairs was just an oddness of parts of the elitist and aristocratic class troughout the centuries here in Europe. The ancient Greeks and Romans pursued a "pro-Shaving" ideal but it was never a recognizable part of our Germanic cultures.
In fact, both the Jewish and Islamic religion demand the shaving of the body hairs of their followers as part of their religious rules till today.

Until the mid-90ies, the trend of full body shaving was not-existent and a minority position, especially present within the more urbanized regions. I accuse the superficial and influential media- and model industry of discrediting the natural run of things as "unaesthetic", "unhygienic" and even "abhorrent". :| The come up of the Internet porn industry with its uniform and plastical ideal of doll women may have done its part as well: Sadly not less men consume such movies and want that their real girlfriends or wifes look alike to the random whore on the Internet - excuse my french here.

Im guilty of adapting to these wrong ideals when I was a teen but I began to realize that I dont want to waste hours a month for something what is a) unnatural, b) painful, c) Ungermanic and, last but not least, d) an (indirect) approval of Islamic and Jewish rites. Im an adult twen and not a prepubescent girl. Ive abandoned using make-up according to the same logic.
I suppose some people have wrong images in their head when they think about women who dont shave, or maybe images of wild shots to the extreme from some dubious websites. Please keep in mind that were Central and Northern European people and no swarthy and hirsute cave dwellers from the Middle East. ;)

The only compromise I make are my legs during summertime, my friend would kill me otherwise and would feel abashed in public. Speaking about that: Id feel abashed if my friend would run around with a shaved chest or shaved legs. Metrosexuality is a clear turn off for me, if I want to see a chicken breast I go to the butcher. :P

Anselm
Tuesday, December 1st, 2009, 08:16 PM
I like hair on women. I'd prefer it if they shave their legs, but underarm and pubic hair doesn't bother me. For me, the pubic area just doesn't look correct without hair---like a duck without feathers.

I'm sure I'm in a minority though. Nowadays a person that likes natural women is the "fetishist."

Nachtengel
Tuesday, December 1st, 2009, 08:21 PM
Im an adult twen and not a prepubescent girl. Ive abandoned using make-up according to the same logic.
Make-up is neither characteristic of prepubescent girls, nor does it make women look prepubescent. Make up often makes teenage girls look older than they are. That is why when I was like 14, my mother forbade me to wear make-up. I've also noticed that oftentimes, 16 year old models who wear make-up look 20 or older.

Thusnelda
Tuesday, December 1st, 2009, 09:09 PM
Make-up is neither characteristic of prepubescent girls, nor does it make women look prepubescent.
Maybe I was a little bit imprecise: My sentence " Ive abandoned using make-up according to the same logic" referred to my statement that I consider such things unnatural.

Ulfvaldr
Wednesday, December 2nd, 2009, 07:36 AM
Honestly, I prefer the natural look

Einarr
Wednesday, December 2nd, 2009, 09:17 AM
Im guilty of adapting to these wrong ideals when I was a teen but I began to realize that I dont want to waste hours a month for something what is a) unnatural, b) painful, c) Ungermanic and, last but not least, d) an (indirect) approval of Islamic and Jewish rites. Im an adult twen and not a prepubescent girl. Ive abandoned using make-up according to the same logic.
I suppose some people have wrong images in their head when they think about women who dont shave, or maybe images of wild shots to the extreme from some dubious websites. Please keep in mind that were Central and Northern European people and no swarthy and hirsute cave dwellers from the Middle East. ;)

The only compromise I make are my legs during summertime, my friend would kill me otherwise and would feel abashed in public. Speaking about that: Id feel abashed if my friend would run around with a shaved chest or shaved legs. Metrosexuality is a clear turn off for me, if I want to see a chicken breast I go to the butcher. :P

Good for you Valk, I wish that more girls were like you and embraced their natural body. A girl such as you wouldn't have to make any compromise with me, though. If you chose not to shave your legs in the summertime, I would proudly stand by you. Who cares about what other people think?

As long as a woman isn't unshaven for the sake of feminism, then I have no problem with it. It must be because she wishes to be natural. Natural girls are beautiful to me. I also heavily dislike implants, tanning, and all of that mess. As long as they don't have those nasty foreign dreadlocks on their head, that is one thing I do not like. Wash and brush your hair please girls, I will even gladly wash it for you.

One thing nobody really mentioned, trimming. Trimming is not the same as shaving, and I would say that most people do it, even men. Just part of general grooming, but not a requirement. I would maybe recommend it though if the hair is getting a little wild, wherever.

Oxygen
Wednesday, December 2nd, 2009, 09:31 AM
I actually prefer women natural even thou I shave my own body hair. I don’t know why that is but I can imagine superheroes and He-Man in particular shaped my mind on the ideal male body as a boy, and seeing as there aren’t many hairy superheroes, aside from wolverine, that may still subconsciously influence my preference to this day? On the other hand Germanic and Roman art depicts the male body in a very similar way, athletic, muscular and hairless so I believe those traits might have “always” been the “Super Mensch” look in European culture. In my opinion the European man should strive to look healthy and athletic. I think body hair makes a man look like a monkey but enhances a womans natural beauty.

Einarr
Wednesday, December 2nd, 2009, 09:42 AM
Body hair is a sign of masculinity to me. A man who shaves his body hair is questionable. So needless to say, I find women who don't shave their body hair unattractive.

I can understand this Ostmark, but what if you had been alive in the past? People must understand that females shaving themselves wasn't a common practice at all, until relatively recently. I do not think that a girl having body hair makes her less feminine, it is what she would look like in her natural state. I'm quite certain that if you had been born in an era where it wasn't an expected practice, you wouldn't feel the way you do at present. I could be wrong though.


There are some feminist women I know who refuse to shave their armpit hair because they think it's sexist for men to have such expectations of them.

Now this I agree with, the feminists can fall off a bridge for all I care. I do not condone not shaving just to spite men or something, or because a woman wants to ramble about sexism. I condone it however if she just wishes to be natural, as I've said in my other post above.

Think about your ancestors Ost, that is how they lived for tens of thousands of years. What if you had to live in the wilderness with your girlfriend/wife for a month, or more? Are you going to be worried about her body hair?


I actually prefer women natural even thou I shave my own body hair. I dont know why that is but I can imagine superheroes and He-Man in particular shaped my mind on the ideal male body as a boy, and seeing as there arent many hairy superheroes, aside from wolverine, that may still subconsciously influence my preference to this day? On the other hand Germanic and Roman art depicts the male body in a very similar way, athletic, muscular and hairless so I believe those traits might have always been the Super Mensch look in European culture. In my opinion the European man should strive to look healthy and athletic. I think body hair makes a man look like a monkey but enhances a womans natural beauty.

Maybe if you want to be an adorned athlete of some kind, I wear my body hair with pride though, like a barbarian. Ready to swing a warhammer. I will admit I trim the underarms and one other area occasionally, hah. I also don't have a full beard, but I usually always have facial hair. Can call it a light beard. I try to keep it well kempt though.

Stimme
Wednesday, December 2nd, 2009, 01:23 PM
I can understand this Ostmark, but what if you had been alive in the past? People must understand that females shaving themselves wasn't a common practice at all, until relatively recently.

At least it was for posing for pictures back then. If you look at old paintings of naked (or almost naked) women, you can see they had no body hair at all. Same goes for ancient statues. A hairless body is the ideal of beauty for waaaay longer than 'until relatively recently'..

Hamar Fox
Wednesday, December 2nd, 2009, 01:37 PM
Body hair is ugly on men and women, basically. To me, it's simply a foriegn trait, since the English aren't a hairy people. Neither I nor my father even have any body hair, save on our arms and legs and under our arms. I've seen women of non-English background (usually Greeks, Bulgarians etc.) who not only don't shave their bodies but proudly sport monobrows and moustaches, and they're some of the most revolting sights I've seen in my life.

But regardless of how unappealing I find it, I see it as a sign of foreign ancestry.

SaxonPagan
Wednesday, December 2nd, 2009, 01:59 PM
I have to say I agree with you there H.F.

I'm not a fan of body hair for purely aesthetic reasons. I prefer women with smooth skin; it just somehow looks more feminine/sexy to me and that's the end of it as far as I'm concerned - you can't help your hormones!

I also think blokes look better without excessive body hair too (from a more neutral standpoint, of course). I used to have very little hair but now I have quite a lot on my chest and I hate it :( I wouldn't go as far as shaving or waxing it off though.

Nachtengel
Wednesday, December 2nd, 2009, 11:39 PM
I actually prefer women natural even thou I shave my own body hair. I dont know why that is but I can imagine superheroes and He-Man in particular shaped my mind on the ideal male body as a boy, and seeing as there arent many hairy superheroes, aside from wolverine, that may still subconsciously influence my preference to this day? On the other hand Germanic and Roman art depicts the male body in a very similar way, athletic, muscular and hairless so I believe those traits might have always been the Super Mensch look in European culture. In my opinion the European man should strive to look healthy and athletic. I think body hair makes a man look like a monkey but enhances a womans natural beauty.
Isn't hairlessness a trait of certain non-Europid races? Negroes and Mongoloids have less body hair than Europids. On the other hand Southern Europeans seem to be very hairy, especially Italians, Greeks... The Romans waxes their bodies and beards, cut their hair, but Germanics kept it long and only trimmed their beards.

To me, sort of like Ostmark said, body hair is a sign of masculinity. I don't like gorillas of course, LOL, but some body hair is sexy in my eyes. Wasn't it Ricky Martin or some other Latino singer who removed his chest hair permanently? I thought that was pretty weird.

Einarr
Thursday, December 3rd, 2009, 02:12 AM
Isn't hairlessness a trait of certain non-Europid races? Negroes and Mongoloids have less body hair than Europids. On the other hand Southern Europeans seem to be very hairy, especially Italians, Greeks... The Romans waxes their bodies and beards, cut their hair, but Germanics kept it long and only trimmed their beards.

To me, sort of like Ostmark said, body hair is a sign of masculinity. I don't like gorillas of course, LOL, but some body hair is sexy in my eyes. Wasn't it Ricky Martin or some other Latino singer who removed his chest hair permanently? I thought that was pretty weird.

Yes, negroids and mongoloids have less body hair than Europids. Non-Europid caucasoids (whatever they are) have a ridiculous amount of body hair though. Southern Europeans tend to have more too, the further south you go, the more you see. The swarthy/hairyness increases there.

Northernish Europeans however have less body hair, but still have it at varying degrees. If a girl wishes to shave/wax and what have you, that's fine with me, but I'm not going to reject her if she chooses not to. I don't think it's that bad on girls anyway, but if one does happen to have thick leg hair or something, then maybe she should consider shaving every so often. I am not very hairy, but I'm definitely not hairless either. I have seen women with more hair on their legs than mine though!

Isflicka
Saturday, March 6th, 2010, 03:56 PM
I think it's a personal choice, but I think it's more beautiful to at least shave your armpites. I don't know why. i guess I've bin brainwashed but that's how I feel. Leg hair is okay if it's not wild or noticable(like very bright hair).

Growing up seeing how disgusted modern culture is with pubic hair I shaved it all off...but when I saw myself naked I thought it looked so weird...like I was a little girl, and I thought it looked ugly towards the rest of my body. I just thought "**** it" and stopped shaving it all off, I just remove hair so it looks trimmed and the "inner" parts. It's an obsession...you feel like a man If you don't shave so it doesn't get in the way even when you're not "on" with someone at the moment. It's sad.

Sigurd
Saturday, March 6th, 2010, 05:43 PM
Growing up seeing how disgusted modern culture is with pubic hair I shaved it all off...but when I saw myself naked I thought it looked so weird...like I was a little girl, and I thought it looked ugly towards the rest of my body.

Ha, the strange thing is that I heard/read a German woman in her thirties or so remark upon this topic recently and she said that like 15-20 years ago blonde girls who were going out with Turks or other Arabs said their boyfriends wanted them to be shaved, and that everyone laughed about this practice as "looking like a little girl", and that it was far from widespread in our latitudes. :P

It's strange how quickly this has spread into everyday mindset, it's now not even that women are "almost required" to shave their pubic hair off, it's increasingly so that you get accused of a "lack of hygiene" if you don't shave it even as a man, metrosexuality is alas clearly on the rise here. :|

Nachtengel
Saturday, March 6th, 2010, 05:50 PM
it's increasingly so that you get accused of a "lack of hygiene" if you don't shave it even as a man, metrosexuality is alas clearly on the rise here. :|
LOL, there is now a social pressure to shave off male pubic hair? :D

Ward
Saturday, March 6th, 2010, 06:58 PM
LOL, there is now a social pressure to shave off male pubic hair? :D

I once dated a German girl who wanted me to shave my armpits. She said it was a common practice amongst German men. She also wanted me to start sitting down when I urinated, which she claimed was another common practice for German men as it tended to create less of a mess than standing up.

Male armpit-shaving is bad enough, but sitting down to pee? To an American man that would inflict almost the same level of psychological damage as being gang-raped in prison.

F**k that was some serious culture shock. :-O

Sl
Sunday, March 14th, 2010, 12:10 AM
Shaving off at least the hair from your armpits is recommendable, if not even a matter of hygiene. In summer if you wear sleeveless shirts it's a matter of aesthetics. But there is more to body hair than just aesthetics. The underarm hair traps your sweat and makes the evaporation process more difficult. Not to mention that it gets messy if you use deodorant or antiperspirant. Technically, thus it would be easier for men to shave their armpit hair too, but men sweating are seen differently. Some women like it and find it manly. Men are less expected to be clean than women. This is a social standard. I suppose it comes from way back, when men were the heads of families and spent their day doing labor and chores which made them sweat and get dirty while women stayed inside and took care of children's education and housework.

Ward
Sunday, March 14th, 2010, 06:26 AM
Shaving off at least the hair from your armpits is recommendable, if not even a matter of hygiene. In summer if you wear sleeveless shirts it's a matter of aesthetics. But there is more to body hair than just aesthetics. The underarm hair traps your sweat and makes the evaporation process more difficult.

Well, where I come from (at least during the time when I was growing up) people associated men who shaved their armpits with homosexuals. And in those days, if kids suspected you were a homosexual, you stood a good chance of getting your head kicked in. :D

When I look at kids these days I sometimes feel like a relic from a distant past or something, because when I grew up it was still possible to distinguish men from women. In any case, I've never had an American girl say anything about my "unkempt" underarm hair. And even though my ex-German girlfriend acted like she hated it, I think she secretly loved it. :P It seems like I watched a show a while back in which it was shown that underarm hair traps a certain scent or pheromone that women are unconsciously attracted to. From a hygienic standpoint, I can't see how underarm hair is harmful since it's our natural state. I don't have a body odor problem myself, and as a northern-European kind of guy I don't have much body hair anyway. My underarm hair is thin, wispy, and a very light brown. I think chicks dig it actually. :2girls

EDIT: Forgot to address the main topic -

If you want to know my shaving preference, think "disco era." If you're not sure what that means, check out the opening shower scenes in the old 1970s horror flick Carrie (it was just on the TV the other day so the images are fresh in my head). Or I can just say that whatever you do, for God's sake, leave your "special" area alone. Or at the very least leave a good-sized "landing strip." I like women, not little girls. I think the whole "prepubescent" style started in America and then spread to Europe, and for this I feel like Americans owe all men across the world who have good taste a sincere apology. :P

As for a woman's underarm and leg hair, I'm not accustomed to seeing it unshaved, but I could probably get used to it if it became "socially acceptable," if you know what I mean.

So that's my advice to all women out there preparing to go on dates. :D

Vlfr
Monday, March 15th, 2010, 12:28 AM
[...] I dont want to waste hours a month for something what is a) unnatural, b) painful, c) Ungermanic and, last but not least, d) an (indirect) approval of Islamic and Jewish rites. Im an adult twen and not a prepubescent girl.

As a teenager, I was really questioning myself, if I really should have shaved, and how much. The hair grows, isn't it naturally? Why to be against the nature? I never liked to go by the trend, just because it was a trend.

Painful, yes it is... and not only painful, but also very harmful. I refer to the many chemical products created to remove body hair.



Ive abandoned using make-up according to the same logic.
Congrats! :thumbup I know some young females who really destroyed their skin by using too much make-up... And it's also unnatural. Natural beauty is much more better than artificial made stuff (if it ever was a doubt about it).



Please keep in mind that were Central and Northern European people and no swarthy and hirsute cave dwellers from the Middle East. ;)
Exactly! As many others said before on this topic, the amount of body hair differs from peoples to peoples.

Naturally, women's body hair is thinner and gentler than men's body hair, at least in the same subrace. And then come the differences between subraces. Nordics have less hair, naturally, than other subraces, for example. If I were a blonde haired Nordid I would probably not care about shaving or waxing at all.

I made an experiment in a summer, while being a teenager, bleaching the hair on my legs... I was wearing short pants, and some friends of mine really thought my legs were very good waxed/shaved. So definitely, I don't understand why blondes should shave their legs. Anyway, I'm still lucky that my body hair is medium/light brown, with a golden shine in the sun, quite thin and quite scarce.

Talking about trends... I was once in love with a guy who was really shocked to hear about that experiment of mine (the idea of body hair on women disgusted him), and due to that I became obsessed with shaving/waxing, at least for a while. I just hope the next person I'll fall in love with will view things in a more traditional way. :viking_ship:



The Romans waxed their bodies and beards, cut their hair, but Germanics kept it long and only trimmed their beards.
That's why I never liked the Romans! :thumbdown

On the other hand... Being very subjective, I really like to see blond (or light brown) body hair on men, especially on pale skin! Of course, natural colour, not bleached or dyed. That's a personal preference, and I can't help it, I'm too fond of colours. :D

Reshki
Monday, March 15th, 2010, 02:26 AM
Heh, this is probably the first place I've been to that anyone agrees with me.

Body hair on women isn't a problem for me. At least on the women I'm attracted to (pretty much Celtic/Nord), their body hair is little more than peach fuzz anyway. I do not like women to shave their pubes. I don't want to feel like I'm f-ing a 10 year old. Armpit hair I can take or leave, and I have no problem with leg hair.

Grey
Monday, March 15th, 2010, 02:48 AM
I don't see how it matters. If a woman is beautiful she will be beautiful with or without hair. My girlfriend shaves often and I don't have a problem with that, but neither would I mind if she didn't. I don't see how not shaving can make a full-grown woman into a prepubescent girl though, unless she's paedomorphic to begin with.

Snowman
Thursday, March 18th, 2010, 09:04 AM
As long the women don't have hair on there back and unnaturally in the face and on breast. You shud only see all hair I got :thumbsup

Why shave?

Ossi
Saturday, March 20th, 2010, 02:28 AM
I once dated a German girl who wanted me to shave my armpits. She said it was a common practice amongst German men. She also wanted me to start sitting down when I urinated, which she claimed was another common practice for German men as it tended to create less of a mess than standing up.

Male armpit-shaving is bad enough, but sitting down to pee? To an American man that would inflict almost the same level of psychological damage as being gang-raped in prison.

F**k that was some serious culture shock. :-O
LMAO. That has NOTHING to do with German culture. The girl probably hung out too much with faggots and metrosexuals. :D

Ward
Saturday, March 20th, 2010, 08:08 AM
LMAO. That has NOTHING to do with German culture. The girl probably hung out too much with faggots and metrosexuals. :D

Then apparently there is an unusually high percentage of faggots and metrosexuals amongst German men. See here (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,1378083,00.html) and here (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,3854759,00.html).

Wulfric
Saturday, March 20th, 2010, 08:36 AM
Then apparently there is an unusually high percentage of faggots and metrosexuals amongst German men. See here (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,1378083,00.html) and here (http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,3854759,00.html).

That's just bizarre...

SaxonCeorl
Friday, March 26th, 2010, 05:02 AM
If I'm being really picky, I prefer women who don't even need to shave. Some women don't have even the slightest vellus hair on their forearms, so I assume they don't have any on their legs either. But I suppose I could be wrong. As for 'down there', I'm not really fussed, as long as it's trimmed.

On a (not very) related note, has anyone else noticed that old men seem to lose their leg hair? I realized that I've never seen an old man with hairy legs. This saddens me, as I don't want my legs to 'bald' someday.

Thusnelda
Friday, March 26th, 2010, 07:25 PM
If I'm being really picky, I prefer women who don't even need to shave. Some women don't have even the slightest vellus hair on their forearms, so I assume they don't have any on their legs either.
Some women (and even men) shave the hairs on their forearms nowadays. :| It seems to be a new trend among younger "cosmopolitican" people and I really hope its not infectious...
By the way, every individual has hairs on arms and legs. Sometimes you cant see them because theyre too thin or very blonde/light, but as good as no one without a genetical disease is free of body hairs.

Theres a growing hostility against body hairs and, as a consequence, against the natural development of people. If natural development is considered as "sick", whats unnatural development then?


Shaving off at least the hair from your armpits is recommendable, if not even a matter of hygiene. In summer if you wear sleeveless shirts it's a matter of aesthetics. But there is more to body hair than just aesthetics. The underarm hair traps your sweat and makes the evaporation process more difficult.
Im shaving my underarm hairs because my fiancee would be a little bit embarrassed in public otherwise, but matter of fact is that underarm hairs actually help in matters of transpiration and heat compensation! They create an interspace between the air and the skin where perspiration can take place. Our body hairs have an evolutional sense.

As a teenager, I was really questioning myself, if I really should have shaved, and how much. The hair grows, isn't it naturally? Why to be against the nature? I never liked to go by the trend, just because it was a trend.
Same feelings and thoughts here. :) The first few years I ran with the trend and shaved everywhere, but as time went by I was asking myself whats the sense behind all this superficial stress and fashion? Just why do I have to fight my own body? Till this day, Ive never regret my decision to stop being a fashion victim.


Congrats! :thumbup I know some young females who really destroyed their skin by using too much make-up... And it's also unnatural. Natural beauty is much more better than artificial made stuff (if it ever was a doubt about it).
Thats true and a compliment for your natural appearance has a much higher value than a compliment for your...make-up skills. ;)


Talking about trends... I was once in love with a guy who was really shocked to hear about that experiment of mine (the idea of body hair on women disgusted him), and due to that I became obsessed with shaving/waxing, at least for a while. I just hope the next person I'll fall in love with will view things in a more traditional way. :viking_ship:
I wonder if you have stopped with that behaviour already? Or do you continue with shaving/waxing?

Reshki
Saturday, March 27th, 2010, 06:56 PM
On a (not very) related note, has anyone else noticed that old men seem to lose their leg hair? I realized that I've never seen an old man with hairy legs. This saddens me, as I don't want my legs to 'bald' someday.

They either wax, or you just can't see it (ever notice how very, very white older men are? They don't hang in the sun much and the gray/white hair probably blends with the skin well""

I have, however seen plenty older guys with vary hairy legs. I wouldn't worry about it.

Does anyone remember back in the 70's and early 80's when hairy chested men was the desireable thing? Same time that blonde hair and blue eyes was desired. . .

Sl
Sunday, March 28th, 2010, 10:57 AM
Im shaving my underarm hairs because my fiancee would be a little bit embarrassed in public otherwise, but matter of fact is that underarm hairs actually help in matters of transpiration and heat compensation! They create an interspace between the air and the skin where perspiration can take place. Our body hairs have an evolutional sense.
That's true but we should consider the timing and environment of this evolutionary development. Humans used to walk around naked or little dressed at all and had less hygienic conditions. In that situation body hair made very much sense. It protected the skin from direct contact with dirt and other things. Pubic hair for example, protected the private places from catching infections. It trapped the dust and other particles. But nowadays it's not absolutely necessary to keep it anymore, for first world people anyway, for the simple reason we wear clothing to cover and protect our bodies and wash/shower frequently. Wearing a cotton t-shirt acts as a sponge which traps the sweat and lets it evaporate. But I don't think anyone should be forced to shave or not shave their body hair. It's a private decision and should be done only as far as each person is comfortable with.

Stimme
Sunday, March 28th, 2010, 12:20 PM
But nowadays it's not absolutely necessary to keep it anymore, for first world people anyway

Plus body hair allows your sweat to stay in the hairy areas and produce smell. Not so convenient for the people around you. :P

Sl
Sunday, March 28th, 2010, 01:35 PM
Plus body hair allows your sweat to stay in the hairy areas and produce smell. Not so convenient for the people around you. :P
True, that was my original point. Even people who use deodorant, if they have underarm hair, it seems to smell worse. Although a sweaty man isn't as unattractive as a sweaty woman. ;)

Stimme
Sunday, March 28th, 2010, 03:37 PM
Although a sweaty man isn't as unattractive as a sweaty woman. ;)

Sweat isn't that bad. It can look quite well on the right person's skin. It's the smell that develops some time after the sweating began. I'm not so hot about the presence of stinking people - regardless of gender. :P

Sigurd
Sunday, March 28th, 2010, 05:00 PM
Plus body hair allows your sweat to stay in the hairy areas and produce smell. Not so convenient for the people around you. :P

Perhaps you know an old German phraseologism, jemanden gut riechen knnen? It's based upon the idea that as pack animals we still in part decide in our subconscious whether we like someone by their smell, evolutionarily important to all pack mammals, just look at what your dog does most preferably, he judged almost exclusively by smell. ;)

People's aversion to people sweating is a little bit over-rated. How often have I sat with some lovely lassie on an absolutely sweltering summer afternoon, the heat drenching both of us in sweat, and it simply didn't bother anyone, because ... well ... we liked each other's natural smell ? :)

Remember, sweat is odour-neutral, it's the smell produced in certain perspiratory glands which is the issue, so if you're actually romantically attracted (i.e. the highest level of heartfelt affection) to someone you like their sweat and it's less troubling if it does happen (which also does when there is no sweat surplus to moisten the T-shirt) ... curiously I've observed that I'm actually more successful with the ladies on nights where I had to run for the bus than on the days where I'm fresh from the shower and smell all flowery. :D

Curiously, people sweating more than they naturally would in a short span of time is likely triggered in part by people's over-hygiene. If you shower twice a day it's obvious that your body will adapt to this, some of the water stays in the pores; if you've ever wondered why your dog smells worse after you've walked him in the rain, this should be a little hint as to how all types of liquid/moisture help bring your smell out more strongly. :P

I'm not saying we should stop showering, I still routinely shower 5-6 times a week (I regularly skip the Sunday shower to allow my skin to regenerate, I have very sensitive skin; if there is a Public Holiday I allow myself a second day where to regenerate), but actually technically speaking, full-washing yourself more than twice to thrice a week isn't healthy, I'm just too vain to break with the over-showering habit. ;)

Stimme
Sunday, March 28th, 2010, 05:18 PM
just look at what your dog does most preferably, he judged almost exclusively by smell. ;)

My dog also digs his nose into other dogs' butts, loves to play with dirt, barks at strangers and pees at every tree around - not quite a role model for civilized human beings.

And it may be that my girlfriend's natural smell isn't as bad - that's due to my distorted perception of her :P - but this doesn't have to apply for the fat sweating guy sitting next to me in the bus or tube. And I hope such people shower more often than just twice a week though it is oh so unhealthy. :P

Vlfr
Sunday, March 28th, 2010, 08:56 PM
Some women (and even men) shave the hairs on their forearms nowadays.
That's another 'useless' habit. Indeed, I've seen girls or women with thick and dark hair on their forearms, but that's how they naturally are. Ok, maybe it doesn't look 'good', but who cares? If someone really loves you, loves you for who you really are... not an artificial construct. We should be who we are, and do better things with our time, than just imitating. Because yes, that can be imitation. I mean people who are naturally very hairy and want to be something else than they really are, wanting to look (their genes remain the same... and who are they fooling?) like people of other heritage, who have naturally less, thinner, or lighter-coloured hair.

I would consider this a kind of a 'stupid social construct' which tends to create an homogeneous mass of people, who would be thinking that the genes and the heritage doesn't really matter, considering that all is just about the looks... like if you can be white skinned or blonde-haired or blue-eyed (coloured lenses, what a useless invention) or have other texture of body hair (or just remove it), whenever you would like... this making useless the preservation of the people who really are pale-skinned, blonde-haired, blue-eyed, or with thinner body hair... I can't help not to think about this 'underground' meaning (and possibly purpose) of all those fashions.

I prefer natural people, to artificial ones who want to pose like being what they are not. Making everyone shave or wax is not an alternative for preserving the genes who make people what they really are. And, last but not at least... I suppose it's naturally that we see beauty in those things which come naturally with our genes and heritage. Anything else is a social construct (I mean a 'trend'). And it can be very dangerous.



every individual has hairs on arms and legs. [...] no one without a genetical disease is free of body hairs.
I know some guy who said that blessed should be those who have that genetical disease that makes them not have any body hair. He said he would like that all women had that genetical disease... :|



a compliment for your natural appearance has a much higher value than a compliment for your...make-up skills. ;)
...and a compliment for your natural appearance is also a compliment for all your ancestors who made it possible for you to be what you are and to look how you look like. ;)



I wonder if you have stopped with that behaviour already? Or do you continue with shaving/waxing?
I stopped removing the 'hair' from my forearms (yes, I did that too, not for a long time, though... I was just curious how it feels like), and I still remove or trim the hair from other areas... I think trimming is ok, and not so unnatural. I also feel uncomfortable with armpit hair (removing it for a long time made it very scarce, so it's not so painful anymore to do it), and I remove the hair from my legs when I find it opportune.



Even people who use deodorant, if they have underarm hair, it seems to smell worse.
People who use deodorant without washing smell worse. But I think deodorants do not smell so good, either, especially in huge quantities... and the ingredients of them are also not so healthy. Knowing your body and washing at the right moment is the best proved solution for 'unpleasant smells'. :thumbup



Perhaps you know an old German phraseologism, jemanden gut riechen knnen? It's based upon the idea that as pack animals we still in part decide in our subconscious whether we like someone by their smell
How true! Hehe, at some moment in time I realized that the guy I was attracted to had a natural smell which was pretty close to mine... or at least his natural 'smell' was 'compatible' with mine. :P
And I also observed that I felt some kind of repulsion for guys who were pretty good looking, in my opinion, but whom natural smell I didn't like. Nature! :D



curiously I've observed that I'm actually more successful with the ladies on nights where I had to run for the bus than on the days where I'm fresh from the shower and smell all flowery. :D
Because of the pheromones your body naturally have, and which are 'revealed' when sweating? ;)

Sigurd
Sunday, March 28th, 2010, 11:32 PM
My dog also digs his nose into other dogs' butts, loves to play with dirt, barks at strangers and pees at every tree around - not quite a role model for civilized human beings.

...And yet wolves and dogs are the mammals whose natural pack structure is closest in complexity to human society? So I think it's a far better example than if I would have used cats or horses, I reckon. ;)

Other than this, it doesn't matter to me whether your dog likes to dig his nose into other dogs' butts, loves to play with dart, barks at strangers and pees at every tree around. So does mine, and when I walk him in the rain he doesn't smell in the least of backsides or soil, but he still smells. :P

Wanderer
Monday, March 29th, 2010, 03:32 AM
I have to say, I have never dated a woman who didn't shave her underarm hair and leg hair. To have encountered something different might have been off-putting, I think. I definitely have to say that I prefer a woman to shave. If she is a natural blonde, I would say that the forearm hair could stay, because it would probably be light enough. Darker shades of hair might pose a problem, though.

As others have pointed out, we don't live in the wild anymore. While hair may have provided protection from cold and the elements in the distant past, in our modern society, body hair is not really needed. Women simply look better with as little body hair as possible. Of course, a long mane on her head is all that's really needed ;)

Sigurd
Monday, March 29th, 2010, 10:31 AM
Here I'll settle this dispute with one picture.Beware I almost puked!

99% of Germanic women have well less hair than this to start out with. In fact, 90% of Germanic men likely have less hair than this to start out with. ;)

As such it's a bad example for arguing for a practice that was imported to us from Islamic lands (where women are typically hairier as well, though it's about looking "young and fresh"), but which was never necessary in these lands for aesthetic understanding (having naturally slight body hair). :|

OneWolf
Monday, March 29th, 2010, 11:13 AM
As such it's a bad example for arguing for a practice that was imported to us from Islamic lands (where women are typically hairier as well, though it's about looking "young and fresh"), but which was never necessary in these lands for aesthetic understanding (having naturally slight body hair). :|

Sigurd,I was only meaning that women who don't shave are gross.I have no idea
who she is or where she comes from.She was a random photo that I plucked
from the internet to emphasize how disgusting women who don't shave are.

Sl
Monday, March 29th, 2010, 11:20 AM
As such it's a bad example for arguing for a practice that was imported to us from Islamic lands
Do you have any evidence for this claim?

Stimme
Monday, March 29th, 2010, 01:44 PM
I think it's a far better example than if I would have used cats or horses, I reckon. ;)

Maybe animals in general aren't that suitable for comparisons with humans. Animals live in the nature doing their animal stuff. Humans don't. We live in developed societies in which we wash to be clean and to smell nicely. ;)
Wanderer pointed that out quite well:


As others have pointed out, we don't live in the wild anymore. While hair may have provided protection from cold and the elements in the distant past, in our modern society, body hair is not really needed. Women simply look better with as little body hair as possible. Of course, a long mane on her head is all that's really needed ;)

Correct, we don't live in the wild anymore. I don't see how body hair being natural is a good reason for letting it grow. You love nature? I assume you prefer to hunt your meat yourself instead of buying it in the supermarket? I assume you decided to sleep in the forest rather than in your flat/house? And don't let me start with things like telephones, computers, the internet, televisions, washing machines, dishwashers, cars etc.
Face it, guys, we separated from nature a looong time ago. And you will not undo this process by just not shaving, lol.

Sigurd
Monday, March 29th, 2010, 03:04 PM
Do you have any evidence for this claim?

No scientific/sociological source, if that's what you mean. I have however an oral source from a woman in her late thirties, as I already indicated earlier in this thread (http://forums.skadi.net/showpost.php?p=996942&postcount=29), I will quote the relevant part again for convenience.


Ha, the strange thing is that I heard/read a German woman in her thirties or so remark upon this topic recently and she said that like 15-20 years ago blonde girls who were going out with Turks or other Arabs said their boyfriends wanted them to be shaved, and that everyone laughed about this practice as "looking like a little girl", and that it was far from widespread in our latitudes. :P

People don't realise that this is an alien practice which wasn't around, or at least not as far-spread only a generation ago, i.e. when our parents were our age. When Nena became famous around the globe in 1982/83 people in the Anglosphere affectionately referred to her as "the German girl with the bush", referring to her (small patch of) axillary hair, no one was grossed out, so I am told. ;)


She was a random photo that I plucked
from the internet to emphasize how disgusting women who don't shave are.

It's curious how it's the same people who always talk about nature's way and natural order who then describe what is our natural design as "disgusting". If we no longer needed body hair due to our clothing, then evolution would have seen to further thin it out, full stop.

Other than this, I don't mind if it makes a woman feel better if they shave some body parts, I won't break up with a girl just because she won't break the (pubic hair-) shaving habit, it's not material whether she shaves, trims, part-shaves or stays au naturel, being a libra my relationships tend to be deeper and more multi-facetted than that and that is entirely up to them. ;)

However what I would never do is to tell a woman that she ditch her natural look and call it disgusting. Then again, perhaps since I'm generally attracted to women with light to intermediate pigment, it's not like it makes much of a difference anyway. Besides, nothing more annoying than a woman who shaves, but does so inconsequently. I have relatively sensitive skin and so stubble itches whilst a bit of "body fluff" can be nice. :P

Nor is stubble rash particular pretty either TBH, if we're continuing to argue on the "aesthetics" line. :D


Maybe animals in general aren't that suitable for comparisons with humans. Animals live in the nature doing their animal stuff. Humans don't.

Humans are animals. We're within nature, not above nature. The fact that we have less hair than early humans is based in part upon our lifestyle. This already does justice to what evolution saw for us, arguably the little we have left is biologically necessary. The fact that hair contain sweat rather than allowing it to pass unhindered should actually be a hint to its necessity rather than it being a nuisance. ;)


We live in developed societies in which we wash to be clean and to smell nicely. ;)

As far as the washing goes, who cares whether we live in developed societies. As I said, regular washing is not only socially necessary but also healthy as it gives moisture back to the body, etc. Over-washing however isn't healthy, it actually de-moistens the body, and not to mention triggers a proneness to smell. This could be arguably done away with if people showered ice-cold, but warm/hot water does open the pores and they take a while to close again.


You love nature? I assume you prefer to hunt your meat yourself instead of buying it in the supermarket?

It's not always possible, but there have been years where we got our beef straight from the farmer. Routinely we buy our meat at the butcher, understood to be that person in a village/town/area set aside to deal in meat, we want to know where what we're eating comes from.

Eggs and butter we get directly from the farmer on the corner. His wife brings them every week as she goes for a walk. :)


I assume you decided to sleep in the forest rather than in your flat/house?

Living in a house is part of all human societies. Whilst this was caves for pre-historic hunter-gatherers, this became tents for nomadic peoples, and houses are the norm for any sedentary society. The same goes for clothing, which is believed to have been worn by "primitive" societies already, archeological findings of clothes date back well into pre-history.

What you don't notice is that we have already lost our hair to adapt to lifestyle changes such as housing and clothing, long long ago. What is left is the biological minimum, that is unless you want to tell me that it's the invention of central heating and indeed insulation materials which makes body hair unnecessary in this day and age whilst the thick stone walls of castles made it necessary in the medieval. :oanieyes

Thusnelda
Monday, March 29th, 2010, 04:54 PM
That's true but we should consider the timing and environment of this evolutionary development. Humans used to walk around naked or little dressed at all and had less hygienic conditions.
Thats a quite outdated view. Our ancestors were not stupid or less creative, in fact they had the same mental faculties like us. Even in stone age people werent running around like naked morons or only with a small mini skirt of hide like in those childish stone age comics. There is absolutely no sign that theyve neglected their hygiene.

The practice of body shaving is just a product of the modern era. Jump 50 years, only 50 years, back in time and ask your direct ancestors or relatives about body shaving. They would probably flip the bird at you. ;) By the way, body shaving is a mandatory religious practice in Islam and Judaism. The main source of the body shaving hype/industry is the (US) movie and porn industry of the late 80ies and early 90ies. Maybe you know that complete body shaving was not common until the mid 90ies in Europe. Underarm hairs yes tendentially, but not in the more intimate areas.


I have to say, I have never dated a woman who didn't shave her underarm hair and leg hair.
Do you have some kind of x-ray eyes to check the body before you start dating? I just ask because usually you start dating people before you see them naked, not vice versa. And I think you show an extraordinary superficial behaviour by using hairs as a serious exclusion criterion.

I definitely have to say that I prefer a woman to shave. If she is a natural blonde, I would say that the forearm hair could stay, because it would probably be light enough. Darker shades of hair might pose a problem, though.
So Germanic women with dark blonde, red or brown hairs must even shave their forearms(!) to please you? If you would tell me that face to face I would give you a proper answer, promised...:thumbdown

Women simply look better with as little body hair as possible.
I dont see any sense in looking like a pre-pubertal girl just because some men suffer on a strange and unnatural trend nowadays, sorry. And Im not afraid of my feminity.

Of course, a long mane on her head is all that's really needed ;)
Thats hypocrisy. Head hears are body hairs as well. ;)

Heres your dream without that ugly body hairs:

http://images.pixelio.de/data/media/42/DSC_0012.jpg


Seriously: I wonder when comes the time where people have to shave their eyebrows? I mean come on, eyebrows are totally useless...neanderthals had eyebrows but we modern people in the First World? How uncool! ...

Sigurd,I was only meaning that women who don't shave are gross...to emphasize how disgusting women who don't shave are.
I am a gross and disgusting woman then. And it feels fine. :P

(On a more serious note, the woman on your picture has a pathological growth of hair, far away from the standard. Horror scenarios are completely unfounded.)

Reshki
Monday, March 29th, 2010, 05:28 PM
Posting one extreme example does not make a counter point.

I've dated Irish and Italian girls that had very dark brown hair and while they shaved under their arms, they didn't shave their legs. Evenw itht eh dark hair, you had to look closely to see the hair on their legs. In most cases you have to be overly obsessed with looks to make much of a deal about it, IMO.

As for pubic hair, that's a sign for both males and females of moving from childhood to adulthood. Actually wanting a sexual partner to look like a child is sick. Women seem to do it because they are pressured to, or because they want to dress like harlots and walk around with nearly nothing on without showing "the nasty".

Again, IMO, any self-respecting woman won't shave it off. Maybe trim it if it's excessively long and bothers her, but not completely off.

YMMV

Stimme
Monday, March 29th, 2010, 07:59 PM
The practice of body shaving is just a product of the modern era.

It's not.


If you look at old paintings of naked (or almost naked) women, you can see they had no body hair at all. Same goes for ancient statues. A hairless body is the ideal of beauty for waaaay longer than 'until relatively recently'..

Thusnelda
Monday, March 29th, 2010, 09:21 PM
It's not.
Your argument proves the exceptional case. Please keep in mind in which societies and circumstances these paintings were made. Most of these paintings are a product of aristocratic societies and the rich, urban Upper Class. These seperated societies did a lot to distinguish themselves from the "lower people", the majority of the population - by property, by wealth, by power, by clothes, by attitude and by looks.

The antique Greece and Roman culture? Yes, theyve developed a specific beauty ideal. But that went hand in hand with decadence, rising debauchery and the degeneration of classic virtues. Ancient Greece fell and so did the Roman Empire, they drown in their own degeneration and became weak so that other powers with a more healthy mind could put them down. Bored and spoiled people invent a lot of things to keep themselves occupied. But those who actually have to work hard to keep themselves and their families alive just dont have the time to develop odd ideas.

Thats why most of these paintings and statues of the high society look as they look. But the normal citizens of that time...the hard worker, the peasant, the housewife, the maid, the breeder, the carpenter, the blacksmith, the rural population...never had the idea or even the time to think about shaving here and there. It was no matter to them. And no one of the upper class was interested to portray them, particularly without clothes. How many portraits of kings, queens and dukes do you know? And how many of farmers and peasants?

And let me tell you that I have a strong feeling of identification with the rural population (farmers, peasants, maidens, etc.) due to my own ancestral background. They never shaved their forearms or other more intimate regions of their bodies because they had something more important to do: Working and caring for their children and country. As Ive said above, bored or slightly degenerating societies develop the craziest ideas to kill time.

What does this mean with respect to our current society of Big Brother, Supernanny, Deutschland sucht den Superstar, multiculturalism, mass immigration? Think for yourself. History seems to repeat itself. The corruption of the mind of a tribe is a slow process. :|

Zimobog
Monday, March 29th, 2010, 09:52 PM
I have been married for almost 15 years, since I had just turned 20. Of course I have had the same sex partner for the entire time (ie we are monogamous).

When I am talking of this subject, it is pretty much in reference to one woman's body.

I really don't care if "it" is shaved or not. To be honest, it comes and goes just for something "different that's the same" ;) when you have been in a relationship that is of this duration. Same with my face hair... I go from moustache to sideburns with 'stache to beard to clean to whatever. Sometimes I shave my head and other times I get a bit shaggy. Just whatever the wife says looks good that month :D. We are still the same two people when the lights go out but changing the apperence of things makes for a little "variety".

I don't care one little bit about arm hair, leg hair, or arm pit hair. It has never slowed me down even for a second :D. My wife doesn't need perfume to smell good and I have owned the same bottle of colonge for 20 years.

I myself am hairy all over (except the top of me head):-O.

Ward
Monday, March 29th, 2010, 09:55 PM
Do you have any evidence for this claim?

As Sigurd pointed out, Muslim immigrants in Europe could well have contributed to the shaving obsession. However, my sense is that the shaving trend that became popular in American porn is where it really took off. And not surprisingly, the directors, producers, and distributors involved in the the American porn industry are overwhelmingly Jewish.


Nor is stubble rash particular pretty either TBH, if we're continuing to argue on the "aesthetics" line. :D

I hear you there. The stubble rash and ingrown hairs look like infections. It all looks so trashy... and diseased.


Humans are animals. We're within nature, not above nature. The fact that we have less hair than early humans is based in part upon our lifestyle. This already does justice to what evolution saw for us, arguably the little we have left is biologically necessary. The fact that hair contain sweat rather than allowing it to pass unhindered should actually be a hint to its necessity rather than it being a nuisance. ;)

Indeed, it seems like a lot of people these days just want their bodies to become as bland and artificial as plastic.


Remember, sweat is odour-neutral, it's the smell produced in certain perspiratory glands which is the issue, so if you're actually romantically attracted (i.e. the highest level of heartfelt affection) to someone you like their sweat and it's less troubling if it does happen (which also does when there is no sweat surplus to moisten the T-shirt) ... curiously I've observed that I'm actually more successful with the ladies on nights where I had to run for the bus than on the days where I'm fresh from the shower and smell all flowery. :D:|

In the same TV program I mentioned in a previous post, researchers did a study on a group of women in which they gave each of them two of their boyfriends' T-shirts. One of the shirts had been washed and the other had previously been worn all day by their boyfriends without being washed. The women weren't told about the conditions of the shirts, but they were asked to choose one of them to wear themselves. Almost all of them chose the "soiled" shirt.

Obviously they probably wouldn't want to wear shirts with an overpowering foul odor, but I think the study demonstrated that some body "scent" is desirable.


Here I'll settle this dispute with one picture.Beware I almost puked!


Do I make you randy baby!Yeaaaah!:-O

:oanieyes This is absurd. It's like putting up a picture of a bearded lady from those old circus freak shows and telling women they must shave their faces so they don't grow beards.

Wanderer
Tuesday, March 30th, 2010, 05:04 AM
I have dated women in two countries - Germany and the US. I only saw conclusively that the shaved when they were disrobed. It is a myth that European women don't shave, and I have had to argue with goofballs who have never even known a European woman intimately about whther or not they have bushes of hair under their arms. Myths die hard! I never conducted interviews or polls ahead of time to ascertain the presence of body hair, or lack thereof. The bottom line is, they probably were simply adhering to social norms that advise us to do what we do. We could all walk around without tending so heavily to our bodily conditions, but let's be honest, women wouldn't be so keen on a man who walks around without showering, using deodorant and cologne, or not tending to his own body hair. Umm, I would hate to be a women dealing with all of the body hair that a man would grow if it goes unchecked. That type of condition would never land a man a long-term relationship with a good-looking, clean, and respectable woman. It strikes me as strange that the poll overwhelmingly shows that men support cutting down on the body hair on women, but quite a few here are posting that they like things au natural. I am not convinced! And really, I understand that women might feel like sex objects because they have to shave, but when a man is making love to a woman, he doesn't want to feel overgrowths of hair, and I really don't care what anyone else says :)

Sigurd
Tuesday, March 30th, 2010, 08:31 AM
We could all walk around without tending so heavily to our bodily conditions, but let's be honest, women wouldn't be so keen on a man who walks around without showering, using deodorant and cologne, or not tending to his own body hair.

I never quite understood the point of deodorant. When you come out of the shower, you smell "nice and fresh" anyway, and if you apply it without having showered that mixture of deodorant and sweat simply smells vile, anyone will notice that you're trying to hide your smell, which is far more embarassing.

I don't tend to my own body hair that much either, as I believe that what differentiates a man from a boy is his facial and body hair. A woman can either take that or leave it, but I have never had problems with women, none has complained thus far. I'm actually convinced they'd laugh if I shaved my every body hair, it's not the type of thing that goes with my style.

I tend to find that the type of women I'm interested in want a manly man, not one who takes twice as long in the bathroom as them and then cries when he cuts himself in the bollocks. Considering I'm already terribly vain about my head-hair and beard, I'd be hard-pushing that envelope, methinks, if I was any higher-maintenance. :P

A woman who wants a metrosexual toyboy is wrong at this door. I regularly change my clothes, I shower and I shave (part of my facial hair, NOT the bodily hair), this should be enough to qualify for "good hygiene". ;)

Vlfr
Tuesday, March 30th, 2010, 08:48 AM
And not surprisingly, the directors, producers, and distributors involved in the the American porn industry are overwhelmingly Jewish.
Very good observation! :thumbup



The bottom line is, they probably were simply adhering to social norms that advise us to do what we do.
Exactly, the sick 'social' construct of a decadent society. :thumbdown



but let's be honest, women wouldn't be so keen on a man who walks around without showering, using deodorant and cologne, or not tending to his own body hair.
Exaggerated! Firstly, as concluded before, showering is something of 'common sense'... so it shouldn't be included into this argument.
Secondly, using deodorant and/or cologne, in the quantities and types that are used today, is not just unnatural, but also unhealthy. Some people exaggerate, that's disgusting!
And thirdly, as it also was emphasized before, the matter of body hair depends on the subrace. And no one said that he or she has something against trimming, when and where it could be the case. That's something else than shaving / waxing / whatever similar.
Again, that's an artificial image of a 'normal behaviour'.



That type of condition would never land a man a long-term relationship with a good-looking, clean, and respectable woman.
If 'respectable' means to adhere to a decadent set of norms, than all honourable women should be 'bad-looking' and 'dirty' (perhaps also 'unhygienic') nowadays, right? That's just sick. :|



women might feel like sex objects because they have to shave
Who said that women have to shave? The producers and distributors of porn industry? Just think about it!

Einarr
Tuesday, March 30th, 2010, 11:48 PM
I am very primal, and I have no illusions as to what we are. I only have interest in girls of more Northern descent (simply meaning not Southern/Med Europe etc), and I honestly couldn't care less if she doesn't shave or wear deodorant, or if she doesn't take a shower every day, etc. I care more about her than for things like that, and I appreciate her for being natural and real. I am not a hippy or anything, but as I said, I am very primal and maybe have somewhat of an animalistic urge for the "dirty" girl. Sorry if that sounds perverted, really wasn't meant to be. I just like women that are real, who are genuine and not fake. Not a false representation or a lie of who and what she really is. Implants, cosmetic surgery, manicures, makeup, perfumes, etc. None of that stuff interests me.

Though I also understand arguing that we are not of an ancient age anymore, so why justify a more ancient lifestyle? I suppose, but I believe that we can be modern and forward-thinking people, yet still bring our heritage, our tradition, and our past with us into the future. This topic in particular is of no harm to us as a people, so why would one be so against it? As I stated in this thread before, I believe that these things being a societal norm is the only reason why people look at them with "disgust."

I will admit that any woman with a monstrous amount of body hair would be quite off-putting. I do not believe I would ever have that problem though, considering who I have an interest in (mentioned earlier). I myself have body hair (of course), but not a ton. It's also lighter in color. I could easily have a heavy beard however, if I wanted. Typical type of a Northern man, I would guess.

Wanderer
Wednesday, March 31st, 2010, 02:56 AM
Hmmm, so shaving hair is a sign of a decadent society? Isn't it the Muslims, Jews, Rastafarians, and Negro subcultures that celebrate the presence of body hair? I seem to recall that every single German soldier of the ww2 era, every last one, had a clean-shaven face...Now, I know we're talking women, so I'll switch back. I don't seem to recall any photos or video of Leni Riefenstahl, or Eva Braun, for example, or any other German woman of years past, with forest-like hair growth all over their bodies (although, I admit, I never met them in the flesh). I would dare say that Germanic women have been shaving most of their body hair for quite some time now, and it is a societal development, not a Jew-inspired custom. Please someone show me something that says that women became more inclined to cut down on the presence of body hair because of foreign influences. And, anyways, numbers don't lie...the vast majority of men prefer women to have less body hair...let's just say that a man would prefer to have more hair on his body than his woman has. Of course, the woman should have longer hair on her head, I don't think any guy is seeking the shaved head look on a woman. Look at this way-a man also prefers to be bigger than his woman in terms of body size...next are men going to start saying that they like fat women, and that it is ok for their woman to be bigger than they are? I look at body hair the same way...I think that a man simply feels more comfortable if he's the one with underarm hair.

Vlfr
Wednesday, March 31st, 2010, 12:33 PM
I don't seem to recall any photos or video of Leni Riefenstahl, or Eva Braun, for example, or any other German woman of years past, with forest-like hair growth all over their bodies (although, I admit, I never met them in the flesh).

Because Germanic women, generally speaking, don't have forest-like body hair, naturally? ;)
And the Northern you go, the less or thinner body hair you should find on women. Anyway, that was already emphasized before, in many posts in this thread. You should look back on the other pages.


Please someone show me something that says that women became more inclined to cut down on the presence of body hair because of foreign influences.
The same story. It was already said. Just an example:
{go to the original message}

This discussion tends to be neverending. :oanieyes

Stimme
Wednesday, March 31st, 2010, 03:24 PM
Please keep in mind in which societies and circumstances these paintings were made. Most of these paintings are a product of aristocratic societies and the rich, urban Upper Class. These seperated societies did a lot to distinguish themselves from the "lower people", the majority of the population - by property, by wealth, by power, by clothes, by attitude and by looks.
[...]Thats why most of these paintings and statues of the high society look as they look. But the normal citizens of that time...the hard worker, the peasant, the housewife, the maid, the breeder, the carpenter, the blacksmith, the rural population...never had the idea or even the time to think about shaving here and there. It was no matter to them. And no one of the upper class was interested to portray them, particularly without clothes. How many portraits of kings, queens and dukes do you know? And how many of farmers and peasants?

And let me tell you that I have a strong feeling of identification with the rural population (farmers, peasants, maidens, etc.) due to my own ancestral background.

You can be sure that people of the working class shave as well today. That is, again, no reason to not shave.


When Nena became famous around the globe in 1982/83 people in the Anglosphere affectionately referred to her as "the German girl with the bush", referring to her (small patch of) axillary hair, no one was grossed out, so I am told. ;)

Today they would be grossed out. Societies change.


If we no longer needed body hair due to our clothing, then evolution would have seen to further thin it out, full stop.
[...]
The fact that we have less hair than early humans is based in part upon our lifestyle. This already does justice to what evolution saw for us, arguably the little we have left is biologically necessary.
[...]
What you don't notice is that we have already lost our hair to adapt to lifestyle changes such as housing and clothing, long long ago. What is left is the biological minimum

You're thinking highly of nature's powers to regulate everything. But keep in mind that natural processes take a long time to be finished. Not years or decades but rather centuries or millenia. It would be foolish to think that our current status is the end of this process of thinning out.
I have hairy fingers and toes. The hairs in this area are of absolutely no use. And I am very sure that it would be completely uncommon to have hair on toes and fingers in 100 years.


Humans are animals. We're within nature, not above nature.

That's true. By saying comparisons of humans with animals aren't that suitable in this case I did not intend to mean we aren't animals ourselves. And it's also true that we're not above nature, either. But too many things happened that forbid us to claim we're within nature any longer. We give our children inoculations, we remove our wisdom teeth because, due to our unnatural way of life, there's just no room in our mouth as our teeth do not fall out as time passes by, we use high speed connection systems (the internet) to communicate with people we'd probably have never met in life.
Name another animal that does the same. I can't think of one.

IvyLeaguer
Monday, April 5th, 2010, 03:12 AM
Gosh! Where are these men coming from who don't care about body hair on women? My husband is Swedish and we've been married for 13 years. Even after all this time, it all needs to be perfect, legs and armpits shaved, and the coochi needs to be manicured perfectly too. My gosh! Some of the men on here are saints! Your women should appreciate that. I sure hope they do.

Mistress Klaus
Monday, April 5th, 2010, 01:38 PM
I don't have a body hair issue (mentally or physically) so I guess I shouldn't talk.....but I must say this thread is funny. Funny in the way that most women are perceived as 'hairy'....depends on genetics.

Sigurd
Tuesday, April 6th, 2010, 09:43 AM
Today they would be grossed out. Societies change.

For Thunor's sake, we're talking about one generation, or less than 30 years, in which this appears to have turned around 100%. Let's see what other changes society has made in the past 30 years:

Abortions have become fashionable, where they don't occur children have become fashion accessories, miscegenative relationships have started to become the norm, a sense of pride in who you are has become a thought crime, the elderly are no longer cared for by their relatives, art is becoming more degenerate as we speak, universities are now a breeding ground of Marxists to enable social engineering... I'm not sure I want to embrace your "changed" society. :|


You're thinking highly of nature's powers to regulate everything. But keep in mind that natural processes take a long time to be finished. Not years or decades but rather centuries or millenia. It would be foolish to think that our current status is the end of this process of thinning out.

If that is the case, then nature will adapt in due course. To "speed up" the process on the basis of a sedentary lifestyle would be fairly silly, what's next, shaving your dog because apart from walking him twice a day he stays inside with you ? :oanieyes (and bet you does it get too warm for your dog - you should see my dog in the heat, he hides in the only bit of shade around!)


I have hairy fingers and toes. The hairs in this area are of absolutely no use. And I am very sure that it would be completely uncommon to have hair on toes and fingers in 100 years.

You'd be surprised at their importance to your Haptic perception. Try it yourself, your palms (along with foot-soles and lips the only body area completely hair-free) are only good for recognition, but not for actually "feeling". Coming into society without preknowledge of anything, body hair would help you tell that a table feels a lot different from a shirt of identical texture. :P

I shall assume you have a partner or at least someone you trust enough to carry out the following experiment on you: Ask your partner to affectionately stroke the palm of your hands, and only your palms. Then ask them to affectionately stroke the back of your hands, and only the back of your hands. Notice a difference? It's the minute hair that makes the difference in perception here, another hint that hair wouldn't be lost altogether, but at best thinned out to an absolute minimum. ;)


But too many things happened that forbid us to claim we're within nature any longer.

Put yourself in a room with air pressure of less than 0.24 bar, with absolutely no uncompounded oxygen, potentially under-water. Actually any of these three will kill you in the short run: Under-water without air after approx. four minutes, the absolutely lack of free-radical oxygen after approx. ten seconds, and an air pressure of less than 0.24 bar immediately. Above nature? ;)


Name another animal that does the same. I can't think of one.

Abstract =/= Extract. Or in other words, the ability to move yourself beyond reality in thought, doesn't mean you can actually move yourself beyond reality in practice. :oanieyes

Snowman
Tuesday, April 6th, 2010, 12:14 PM
I don't really seet his obsession of shaving themself. Really, what is the point of it?

Some claim that it's more hygienic to shave instead of having hair on the body, well it's actually the opposite of it. It's so basic knowleadge that you learn this in school. Unless you have unnatural hair growth or for some reason have to shave due to medical reason, it's kinda unnecessary.

The superficiality is a most in an "modern" day society. Just like plastic-surgery, make-up, fancy clothes/shoes etc etc. When I meet/or with someone I smell and look into the person and listen too what he/she/they have to say.

Under a long time people where whining on me that I must shave my beard. The reason they gave me was that I look bad and an terrorist. There is no limit of the insult and how high the superficiality has gone to many people heads.

Stimme
Tuesday, April 6th, 2010, 06:58 PM
For Thunor's sake, we're talking about one generation, or less than 30 years, in which this appears to have turned around 100%. Let's see what other changes society has made in the past 30 years:

Abortions have become fashionable, where they don't occur children have become fashion accessories, miscegenative relationships have started to become the norm, a sense of pride in who you are has become a thought crime, the elderly are no longer cared for by their relatives, art is becoming more degenerate as we speak, universities are now a breeding ground of Marxists to enable social engineering... I'm not sure I want to embrace your "changed" society. :|

Oh yeah, let's name some changes that occurred in the last decades to prove how bad and wrong shaving is. :D
We also experienced massive modernization in mobility and connectivity. Todays cars and computers are two of the greatest inventions of mankind. Let's just take the moon landing for example: Every basic mobile phone has more power than all the computers the Nasa used back then.
This doesn't have to do anything with the topic? So do your comparisons.



If that is the case, then nature will adapt in due course. To "speed up" the process on the basis of a sedentary lifestyle would be fairly silly

Would it? To be more like the next step of human's evolution isn't silly at all.



You'd be surprised at their importance to your Haptic perception. Try it yourself, your palms (along with foot-soles and lips the only body area completely hair-free) are only good for recognition, but not for actually "feeling".

Actually lips do a great job at feeling things. :P So do my palms (though I prefer to use the fingers instead). I'm not to sure about my foot-soles but, since they're almost always covered by shoes (again, such an evil, unnatural thing! :|), I'm quite fine with that.


Coming into society without preknowledge of anything, body hair would help you tell that a table feels a lot different from a shirt of identical texture. :P

I may be wrong but aren't babies usually very hairless?


I shall assume you have a partner or at least someone you trust enough to carry out the following experiment on you: Ask your partner to affectionately stroke the palm of your hands, and only your palms. Then ask them to affectionately stroke the back of your hands, and only the back of your hands. Notice a difference? It's the minute hair that makes the difference in perception here, another hint that hair wouldn't be lost altogether, but at best thinned out to an absolute minimum. ;)

This is interesting for I assume my translator telling me stroke means something like 'anschlagen' is wrong. Because, if you beat in my palm and then in the back of my hand, the feeling is pretty much the same: pain. :D But why would I ask my partner to do this? So I assume it's something softer but, then again, touches feel nicely in both areas there.


Put yourself in a room with air pressure of less than 0.24 bar, with absolutely no uncompounded oxygen, potentially under-water. Actually any of these three will kill you in the short run: Under-water without air after approx. four minutes, the absolutely lack of free-radical oxygen after approx. ten seconds, and an air pressure of less than 0.24 bar immediately. Above nature? ;)

I could think of a lot of dead electronical products that are not natural at all that couldn't stand such circumstances, as well.
And again, I didn't say we're above nature. We're just not as connected to it as we used to be.


I don't really see his obsession of shaving themself. Really, what is the point of it?

In fact I don't really care whether the skadi girls shave or not. I just don't agree on their reasons for not doing it. I mean 'Oh noes, it's sooo unnatural!' can't be an argument. Helloho, you're reading this on your super-modern computer with a high-speed-internet-connection. As if you would care for living naturally..
Bad or sensitive skin, economical behaviour (those body care products can be quite expensive) or lack of enough time - those would be reasons for not doing it but just because it's unnatural? Oh, come on..

Sigurd
Tuesday, April 6th, 2010, 09:58 PM
I'm a bit tired right now, so I'll reply to the rest probably tomorrow, but I'll comment on your "technology examples" in the meantime.


We also experienced massive modernization in mobility and connectivity. Todays cars and computers are two of the greatest inventions of mankind. [...] This doesn't have to do anything with the topic? So do your comparisons.

Technological and economic advancement say very little about the moral welfare of a certain population, that's unless you substitute culture's value for the value of the Wirtschaftswunder as our puppets and puppet-masters like to do. :oanieyes

My comparisons have a lot more to do with the topic than yours: Mine all heralded other trends in society, which have become prevalent in a different mindset, types of behaviour that come with how "society changes" throughout the past few decades, a society's worth is judged by its morality. You on the other hand just threw me a list of hi-tech luxuries which say little about the morality upon which a society grounds.

[...]


I mean 'Oh noes, it's sooo unnatural!' can't be an argument. Helloho, you're reading this on your super-modern computer with a high-speed-internet-connection. As if you would care for living naturally..

That's something entirely different from each other. Using a super-modern computer with a high-speed-internet-connection is a matter of progress, an advance probably here to stay, much like making tools from bronze or iron rather than from stone was a matter of progress and was here to stay.

Changing societal norms, on the other hand is not a matter of progress, much wisdom and indeed lack thereof is timeless, and so are certain maxims may come and go as fads. Computers don't come and go by people's aesthetic standards, whilst body-shaving has, if we're to believe your evidence, come and gone throughout "civilised" history. ;)

Zimobog
Tuesday, April 6th, 2010, 10:58 PM
Natural vs. unnatural:

since the short hair occurs in those regions naturally, of the two situations only removing it could be possibly be considered "unnatural".

You guys who "insist" on it are expressing a sexual preference and I am fine with it as it is between you and your lady... but don't come in here arguing with Sigurd in favor of shaving on a "natural vs. unnatural" basis. It will make me laugh and I might spill my drink.:D

Wanderer
Tuesday, April 6th, 2010, 11:00 PM
Stimme is right. I have a hunch that complaints against shaving are not because it's 'unnatural.' It seems to me that it could be that women, on an individual basis, just don't want to do it (whether because it takes too much time, or the shaving products are costly, or because the skin gets irritated). Those are all fine excuses. Just come out and say it instead of making this a case of humans becoming above nature and 'being decadent.' BTW, I also don't have a problem if women don't want to shave. In the end, it is their decision. Nonetheless, I stand by the way I voted in the poll, which is to say that women should shave (the legs and armpits being pretty darned important).

IvyLeaguer
Tuesday, April 6th, 2010, 11:12 PM
Just go get it all lasered off and be done with it. That's what I did after having to listen to, "You took a little bit too much off there. It needs to be a strip running down the middle." I'm like, "Look...You've got few possible options with this; there's Hitler, Telly Savalas, and Yellowstone National Park."

I'm surprised my husband wasn't there directing the dermatologist on how much to remove.

I'm glad that the rest of you aren't like this.

Zimobog
Tuesday, April 6th, 2010, 11:28 PM
Actually, I'd like someone to say- "this is what I like ________." Don't try to justify it or anything. Either you do, or you don't. Why explain it? I aint gonna check under the sheets at your house! :D

IvyLeaguer
Tuesday, April 6th, 2010, 11:33 PM
Why explain it? I aint gonna check under the sheets at your house! :D

...and I am eternally grateful for that! :thumbup I don't think I could withstand any other criticism from a third party.

Bleyer
Wednesday, April 7th, 2010, 10:13 AM
I don't really care. Body hair is a too shallow preoccupation for me. There are tons more important things in a relationship than whether the woman shaves or not. That's one of the last worries for me. Although I would be worried if she was excessively preoccupied with things like that. A little grooming is fine and if a woman shaves, I don't care, nor if she skips it, but making this a fussy subject and debating that all other women must either shave or not shave, like her seems pretty futile to me. Everyone will do whatever they're comfortable with.

Vlfr
Wednesday, April 7th, 2010, 10:42 AM
Let's just take the moon landing for example: Every basic mobile phone has more power than all the computers the Nasa used back then.
There are critics who say the moon landing never happened, that it was a fake. (Not necessary related to the main subject, just because you mentioned it.)



[...] nature. We're just not as connected to it as we used to be.
That's a very bad thing, in my opinion.



I mean 'Oh noes, it's sooo unnatural!' can't be an argument. [...]
Bad or sensitive skin, economical behaviour (those body care products can be quite expensive) or lack of enough time - those would be reasons for not doing it but just because it's unnatural? Oh, come on..
"Bad or sensitive skin" - one can deal even with that. So I don't see where's the problem.

I don't really see the link between shaving and "those body care products", but anyway, "those body care products" are usually unhealthy and unnatural, containing many harmful substances. (There are natural ways, too, concerning body care, but that's another issue.)

"Lack of enough time"? You managed to make me laugh, really. If you think something is important you can find time for it. For example cleaning your body is important, and you find time for it. Even animals are cleaning their body, in a way or another, once in a while. That's something natural. :D

"Oh noes, it's sooo unnatural!" CAN be an argument. Because yes, removing your body hair is unnatural.
Indeed, there can be many other reasons for not doing it. But one can be against it just because it's unnatural. It's a personal choice.
Just like some feminists would chose not to do it, for other reasons. But that's not the case here.




Natural vs. unnatural:

since the short hair occurs in those regions naturally, of the two situations only removing it could be possibly be considered "unnatural".
Basic logics.



You guys who "insist" on it are expressing a sexual preference and I am fine with it as it is between you and your lady...
I agree. What I don't like are the so-called social pressures and the silly trends in nowadays society.



but don't come in here arguing [...] on a "natural vs. unnatural" basis. It will make me laugh and I might spill my drink.:D
Indeed. :rotfl

Wolgadeutscher
Wednesday, April 7th, 2010, 01:15 PM
I prefer women, not children, to put it this way. The obsession with shaving is a modern degeneration like the other habits women have nowadays. Hair dying, nail polish, coloured contacts, anything to obsess about appearance and making themselves look sexually attractive. or their idea of sexually attractive. To me, a woman who keeps he natural way is more attractive.

Nachtengel
Wednesday, April 7th, 2010, 04:21 PM
^ What about if a woman shaves due to pressure from her partner, or to please him? Is it a sign of 'degeneration' then too? :confused

OneWolf
Wednesday, April 7th, 2010, 04:38 PM
Look earlier in this thread I posted something to be a smart butt.It obviously
offended somebody since it has been erased.
But how I really feel about shaving is this.I prefer a woman who is clean and
smells nice.There are periods during a long relationship or a marriage when
a lady basically says "screw it" and doesn't want to shave.And that is okay
with me since I to go long periods without shaving my beard.
One time I even had a competition with one of my ex-girlfriends to see who
could grow the most hair on their legs and to my surprise she won.
So to sum it up,I prefer a clean shaven lady.But If she goes on strike that is
fine with me.;)

Zimobog
Wednesday, April 7th, 2010, 06:49 PM
If all the ladies went on strike and chucked the pink razors out with the trash, how long could the "shave or I'm gone" fellows hold out before they just had to go there regardless?:D I give it about a week.

Smelling nice, being friendly and having a "welcoming" embrace is more what I am into... if I were you guys I wouldn't kick a lovely woman out of bed over her auxillary hair situation, but to each his own.

Heck, I live in Alaska. Maybe we are more used to body hair up here. ;)

Wanderer
Wednesday, April 7th, 2010, 11:41 PM
Todesengel, good point you make. Is it degenerate if a woman wants to please her man? To go further, is it degenerate if a woman wants to have less hair on her legs and under her arms than her man? This is going to go on forever:|

Freyr Filosofer
Monday, July 19th, 2010, 08:49 AM
call me a creep, but I like natural women.

Thorodinssohn
Monday, July 26th, 2010, 05:31 PM
I may be in the minority, though I'm not sure, not having read every page of the thread, but I prefer less hair on women than on men. I don't necessarily require all body hair to be removed, but trimmed in the least. Personally, I have a relatively hairy body, but there are certain parts which I feel it is courteous to a partner to trim. I may be brainwashed to the 20th century way of thinking, but I figure we live in the here and now, and all this talk of being completely natural is moot. If we lived in Viking times, Medieval times, or even in the 18th and 19th centuries, I'm sure I would not care in the least. Having said that, I don't strive to be "viking" in every sense, and have preferences based on my own experiences.

Hail Odin and Cheers.

Sigurd
Monday, July 26th, 2010, 06:21 PM
^ What about if a woman shaves due to pressure from her partner, or to please him? Is it a sign of 'degeneration' then too? :confused

Yes, that's a sign of degeneration, but not really a sign of her degeneration, but because of his degeneration. He should be less concerned about such little details as to whether his girl shaves or doesn't. If he has certain preferences then they can sit down like normal people and talk to it, but a man who will outright demand such silly things as to whether she should shave or not shave out of his girl, is the one who's the degenerate. He should be damn glad he got himself a pretty lass in the first place, instead. :P

Thusnelda
Saturday, July 31st, 2010, 02:42 AM
I may be brainwashed to the 20th century way of thinking, but I figure we live in the here and now, and all this talk of being completely natural is moot.
Why do you think its moot? I doubt its moot or irrelevant. In fact, it has to do with modern mainstream cultural and aesthetical ideals brought to us by several questionable sources like mass media, mediterranean cultures, porn industry, yellow press or Hollywood. Say, why do you think that a more natural approach and resistance against some superficial trends imposed on our Germanic societies is "moot"? Can you figure the fact to yourself that all of your ancestors in all of your family lines before the beginning of the 20th century where unshaved? Does it makes them coarse?

and If we lived in Viking times, Medieval times, or even in the 18th and 19th centuries, I'm sure I would not care in the least.
You contradict yourself to some extend now. :|

Stimme
Saturday, July 31st, 2010, 05:32 PM
woah, wait

You consider not shaving as a 'natural approach and resistance against some superficial trends'? I'd like to believe you're such a rebel but haven't you shaved for your honeymoon?

thoughtcrime
Saturday, July 31st, 2010, 06:01 PM
woah, wait

You consider not shaving as a 'natural approach and resistance against some superficial trends'? I'd like to believe you're such a rebel but haven't you shaved for your honeymoon?

Umm...I know it's off topic, but don't you find that question a bit too personal? Just wondering.

Stimme
Sunday, August 1st, 2010, 03:23 PM
Actually I do, yes. But since she started to put some sort of revolutionary meaning into this behaviour, I considered it to be ok to ask.

(just in case: I haven't meant the Hochzeitsnacht but rather the Flitterwochen, maybe honeymoon means both things in this context. So if my English skills caused some indecent situation, I apologize.)

Thusnelda
Sunday, August 1st, 2010, 04:27 PM
Actually I do, yes. But since she started to put some sort of revolutionary meaning into this behaviour, I considered it to be ok to ask.
Youre misreading something here. :| Im not thinking of myself as a "revolutionist" due to the fact that I refuse that shaving hysteria ordinarily. By definition a "revolutionist" does or undertakes something to act revolutionary. I instead do, well, nothing and let nature take its course. ;) "Resistance" isnt the same as "revolutionary acts". I just resist to run behind a trend brought to us by media and lowbrowish trendsetters.


(just in case: I haven't meant the Hochzeitsnacht but rather the Flitterwochen, maybe honeymoon means both things in this context. So if my English skills caused some indecent situation, I apologize.)
That was an exception to the rule because my husband-to-be wanted to visit South-East Asia with its exotic and hot climate and I didnt wanted to embarrass him in public when bathing or the like. Nine times out of ten I dont run around half naked with bathing slip and bikini here at home. :P In fact, I did him a favor. He accepts my opinion in private life but he asked for a sole exceptional case when visiting South-East Asia for honeymoon and I just did him that favor. Exceptions prove the rule. And thats all what Im going to share of my private life.

Thorodinssohn
Sunday, August 1st, 2010, 04:38 PM
Why do you think its moot? I doubt its moot or irrelevant. In fact, it has to do with modern mainstream cultural and aesthetical ideals brought to us by several questionable sources like mass media, mediterranean cultures, porn industry, yellow press or Hollywood. Say, why do you think that a more natural approach and resistance against some superficial trends imposed on our Germanic societies is "moot"? Can you figure the fact to yourself that all of your ancestors in all of your family lines before the beginning of the 20th century where unshaved? Does it makes them coarse?

You contradict yourself to some extend now. :|

Perhaps I should clarify the use of the word "moot". I say that its moot to believe we can live in a completely natural way since we live in the 21st century. There is barely anywhere to live in a "natural" way. Indoor plumbing? Not natural. Cars? Not natural. Apartment complexes, houses with electricity? Not natural. Medicine? Not natural. I would not consider any of my ancestors "coarse" for not embracing any of these modern advancements. Society and cultures change. I prefer to change with them, while retaining the heart and soul of who I am and where I come from.

To the second point that I contradict myself, I don't see how I do. If I were living in times that I am not, it would be culturally acceptable to go completely unshaven. To me, in the advanced society we live in now, it is only a rebellion against social standards to do otherwise. I could easily stop shaving my beard and stop cutting my hair to do the same thing, but it would be counterproductive to do so, as I would be viewed as some sort of "mountain man."

I also want to make the point that I have nothing against those of you who prefer the so called "natural" look. My own preference, and that is all it is, a preference, leans toward a "clean cut" appearance. That includes seeing ladies with shaved legs and no underarm hair. Other hair is their own business, and I suppose so is the visible hair if you want to take it that far. As I said, I'm only stating my own opinion. I'm not trying to convince anyone to start a habit they don't currently subscribe to.

Cheers.

Huginn ok Muninn
Sunday, August 1st, 2010, 05:01 PM
You contradict yourself to some extend now. :|

I can sort of see why he says that. There is a certain desire most have to blend in to the current fashion, despite what caused it and whether or not it's a good thing. I am guessing, but I think that might be why your boyfriend really preferred that you conform during your vacation. I'm sure he wouldn't really be embarrassed by you, just uncomfortable that your natural state might draw unnecessary attention, and get in the way of the two of you just enjoying yourselves.

Jger
Sunday, August 1st, 2010, 05:51 PM
Shaving hair is certainly older than dying it. :D

Stimme
Sunday, August 1st, 2010, 09:48 PM
@Thusnelda: Ok, revolution, resistance.. call it what you want. But isn't stopping your resistance due to reasons of convenience hypocritical? This time it was your vacation. Next time it could be some bbq at the beach with colleagues or friends. Next time it could be a visit in the sauna or a spar center and you will find more exceptions to the rule and you realise there isn't much resistance in your plan to resist against fashion trends.
Do you really consider your behaviour as a resistance or do you think there could be more exceptions in future?

Sigurd
Sunday, August 1st, 2010, 09:54 PM
Shaving hair is certainly older than dying it. :D

You'd be surprised. But let's not go down that road again, 100-and-how-many-pages? ;)

Thusnelda
Monday, August 2nd, 2010, 08:55 PM
But isn't stopping your resistance due to reasons of convenience hypocritical?
I did it in an exceptional situation for the honeymoon and its called a compromise.

This time it was your vacation. Next time it could be some bbq at the beach with colleagues or friends. Next time it could be a visit in the sauna or a spar center and you will find more exceptions to the rule and you realise there isn't much resistance in your plan to resist against fashion trends.
We dont have any beaches here in the Bavarian forest ;) and I dont visit saunas or exercise centers. I suppose you underestimate my will to resist modern, foreign and superficial trends when I think theyre pointless or detrimental to our culture and cause.

Do you really consider your behaviour as a resistance or do you think there could be more exceptions in future?
Well, I cant imagine any. In fact, my husband-to-be had to accept my view on the matter and not vice versa.

Shaving hair is certainly older than dying it. :D
I dont dye my hair with a similar color (anymore). :P But some kind of dying always happened in Germanic history.

Rev. Jupiter
Thursday, December 23rd, 2010, 09:58 PM
As a man, I can say that I dislike women shaving excessively. Legs I can understand due to aesthetic concerns, but I dislike too much body hair being taken away.

Natural is better, says I.

Vlfr
Friday, September 28th, 2018, 11:46 PM
Another old thread...

These days I've seen this trend extended a lot to men too, I've been seeing so many men with their legs shaved... and also lots of women with their arms shaved too, which several years ago was quite rare...

I wonder what are the opinions on this topic nowadays, when this trend got even stronger...

Gareth Lee Hunter
Saturday, September 29th, 2018, 12:25 AM
I'm nearly as 'furry' all over as our feline friends... In fact, a nurse once gasped and exclaimed, "He isn't hairy, he's furry!" :D

Shave it off. Hell no! My little lady likes it. And that's all that matters. ;)

Before competing as a bodybuilder I would shave it off, of course.

As for women, I much prefer they keep themselves free of body hair.

Wuotans Krieger
Wednesday, November 28th, 2018, 05:32 PM
Poll for the men members of Skadi. Do you prefer a woman who shaves her body hair or a woman who leaves it growing? Do you prefer the 20th century smoothness or the ancient Viking look?

I am unclear about what you mean by 'body hair'?

Gareth Lee Hunter
Wednesday, November 28th, 2018, 08:28 PM
My wife is a natural blonde and possesses very little noticeable body hair other then two places, of course. :-O