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Oski
Monday, January 26th, 2009, 10:52 PM
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6176/090126sicillymummybigix6.th.jpg (http://img89.imageshack.us/my.php?image=090126sicillymummybigix6.jp g)

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/01/090126-sicily-mummy.html

What do you think?

Oswiu
Tuesday, January 27th, 2009, 01:07 AM
God Damn It Man!

She's a 1920s Sicilian, well embalmed. You had me so excited that they'd somehow found a well preserved actual Langobard mummy from the early Middle Ages! :D

(If I'd actually registered the big pick ribbon tied in a bow in the poor girl's hair, I might not have had my hopes raised so, but I rushed to click the link before looking properly! :P)

The odd fair haired girl in Sicilia is not news, by the way, especially of her age.

Zauberspruch
Tuesday, January 27th, 2009, 02:34 AM
What do I think? I think it's bloody macabre, that's what I think.

The poor lass should have been sealed in a casket and allowed to turn back to dust.

Where will that wee corpse be in a hundred, two hundred years? Why would any parent tan and stuff their kid and then set them afloat on the Ocean of the Ages with no idea of what sort of pervert might purcahse her cadaver once a dozen generations grew weary of seeing her?

Sick bunch o' puppies!

================================

Zauberspruch






.

Oswiu
Tuesday, January 27th, 2009, 03:05 AM
I think it's bloody macabre, that's what I think.

The poor lass should have been sealed in a casket and allowed to turn back to dust.

To the first point, aye, I agree. To the second, well, that whole idea of being sealed up as tight as possible always creeped me out a bit too. Not just because of nasty stories you hear of people being buried alive, either! Just seems to me that there's some final bit of 'use' to our organic self, that ought to go to some good, helping trees grow and the like, and yet we do our best to keep it locked away until it's of as little use as possible. That thing where they let the birds eat the flesh in Tibet interested me. Even better than feeding worms... ;)

Oski
Tuesday, January 27th, 2009, 05:07 AM
God Damn It Man!

She's a 1920s Sicilian, well embalmed. You had me so excited that they'd somehow found a well preserved actual Langobard mummy from the early Middle Ages! :D

(If I'd actually registered the big pick ribbon tied in a bow in the poor girl's hair, I might not have had my hopes raised so, but I rushed to click the link before looking properly! :P)

The odd fair haired girl in Sicilia is not news, by the way, especially of her age.

Hehehehe got ya. Still interesting that her last name is Lombardo.

:D

Oswiu
Tuesday, January 27th, 2009, 05:18 AM
Hehehehe got ya.
SWINE!

Still interesting that her last name is Lombardo.
Could mean anything. In Russia, 'Lombard' just means 'Pawnbroker'. Any fair Sicilian stood the chance of being nicknamed Lombard, I suppose, and it may have stuck. Or somebody came from the nearby mainland, and his new neighbours joked about him having come even further. :shrug Or the clan founder could even have been from Lombardy... :D

forkbeard
Friday, January 30th, 2009, 10:14 PM
Mummification, art, sculpture , painting. These are real ways the ancestors communicate with us. They say " I am like you, you are like me, we are kinsmen." What are we communicating with our future descendants?

Oski
Friday, January 30th, 2009, 10:21 PM
The odd fair haired girl in Sicilia is not news, by the way, especially of her age.

Really? I always pictured sicily as very dark pigmented.

Kreis AnnA
Friday, January 30th, 2009, 10:35 PM
Sicily is a mixed bag. But then blond is a paedomorphic trait among most Europeans. There were Germanic invasions and conquests of Sicily throughout the ages. Vandals, Langobards, Rus, to Swabians and Normans. In fact, I'm one-fourth Sicilu-Norman descent.

Oski
Friday, January 30th, 2009, 11:52 PM
Sicily is a mixed bag. But then blond is a paedomorphic trait among most Europeans. There were Germanic invasions and conquests of Sicily throughout the ages. Vandals, Langobards, Rus, to Swabians and Normans. In fact, I'm one-fourth Sicilu-Norman descent.

How do you know that you are part Sicilu-Norman rather than just part "plain" Sicilan?

Sigurd
Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 01:07 AM
Even if someone were an indeed ancient Longobardic Mummy - then why should this be such a fundamentally surprising find? Just because for example the Egyptians are most notable for their preservation of people by mummification, doesn't mean it wasn't practice elsewhere. ;)

It is a known fact that as the ages progressed, our Germanic ancestors practiced different burial rites - from the "burial gift and burying conventionally" approach, to the "cremation" approach even to the "preservation of the body" approach, all are widely known and noted prominently in anthropological research. :P

As regards the name "Lombardo" I am with Oswiu there. It is oft hard to say where people got their surnames from. It doesn't mean any inherent ancestral connection. Let's say you have a Bavarian whose surname was "Preu▀" --- then it wouldn't mean that he were a (gods, no!) Prussian by ancestray, it could even refer to the traditionally scorned-upon sympathisation with the Prussians, or to someone who was a mercenary in the Prussian army.

Someone with a funny dialect may have been humorously dubbed as "Frank" even though he had no Franconian ancestry. In fact, such is where one of my ancestral lines' (a great-great-great-grandfather) surname - Frank [And no - even though that's what it's most noted for these days, I'm not related in any way, shape or form to that Jewish girl]- is reckoned to come from. As such, someone's reference to as "Preu▀" or "Frank" might not be different from other entirely unrelated surnames such as "Schoi▀wohl", "Ficker" or "Schluckebier" (and again, I have an ancestral line whose surname was "Schluckebier"... :rofl) ;)

Kreis AnnA
Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 06:19 PM
How do you know that you are part Sicilu-Norman rather than just part "plain" Sicilan?

Because I carry a Norman family name with full Church records of patrilineage that date back to before Swabian rule, including various titles, etc., and stretch through Hapsburg rule (Kingdom of the Two Sicilies). Family marriages were arrainged from time in memorium, and so there was a soft type of apartheid familiar to other parts of Europe, even through the formation of the modern Italian State. So even the physicality, my physicality inherited from those ancestors, differs signifigantly from "plain" Sicilians. (Okay, there is some mixing with Aragonese and Savoy, but there you go.)

And when my grandfather came to America, he didn't go through Ellis Island travelling steerage class. Money came with him though titles be damned. :)

Oswiu
Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 09:11 PM
Because I carry a Norman family name with full Church records of patrilineage that date back to before Swabian rule, including various titles, etc., and stretch through Hapsburg rule (Kingdom of the Two Sicilies). Family marriages were arrainged from time in memorium, and so there was a soft type of apartheid familiar to other parts of Europe, even through the formation of the modern Italian State. So even the physicality, my physicality inherited from those ancestors, differs signifigantly from "plain" Sicilians. (Okay, there is some mixing with Aragonese and Savoy, but there you go.)

And when my grandfather came to America, he didn't go through Ellis Island travelling steerage class. Money came with him though titles be damned. :)
Interesting. Coming to America, does that mean your Grandad was a younger son or something? What was the incentive to leave? Or have the nobility in Italy faded away since 1945? Is there any lingering respect for descendants of older families? How did they coexist with the Camorra? I know absolutely nothing about them, and have never really thought about it before! Do you still have cousins 'back home' who live in the same Old House?

Who is the earliest man you can trace it all to? Might a little detective work extend the line back to Normandy, and then to Orkney or Norway?

Kreis AnnA
Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 11:16 PM
Interesting. Coming to America, does that mean your Grandad was a younger son or something? What was the incentive to leave? Or have the nobility in Italy faded away since 1945? Is there any lingering respect for descendants of older families? How did they coexist with the Camorra? I know absolutely nothing about them, and have never really thought about it before! Do you still have cousins 'back home' who live in the same Old House?

Who is the earliest man you can trace it all to? Might a little detective work extend the line back to Normandy, and then to Orkney or Norway?

The Comorra were formed around semi "noble" families whose roots date back to the magnates of Italian City States and the remnants of the Aragonese somewher around the 15th Century. These families had tremendous respect through the early 20th century. The lingering respect for Sicilu-Normans is a cultural phenomena- folk heros who made Sicily wealthy, etc. My grandfather came here with a disrespect for his family. Word is it was an arrainged marriage gone sour that split the family into irreconcilable factions. I met some family relations many years ago during a visit to Rome. The family seemed modern- not the type to live in some crumbling Manse or villa while children played around old men sipping Grappa as they fed table scraps to little dogs :D. As I understand it, whatever they did have was already crumbling and turned into some tourist site. The actual remnants of royalty relate to the House of Savoy and Hapsburg, not really Norman but very Italian.

As for the ancestor would you believe me if it seems to lead back to a son of a Hautville-Plantagenet marriage? I wouldn't lol. But apparently it does- something to do with Joanna of England. The family name is the same as telling you my name, (it's that close) and I'm not going to do that. Here's an interesting photo of my great-great grandmother. The English influence seemed to carry through:

http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL654/4300182/9192420/152655112.jpg