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ciurchea
Tuesday, January 13th, 2009, 11:20 PM
Reading Jordannes:Flautasis/Plutasi=Bistrita

"In the land of Scythia to the westward dwells, first of 33 all, the race of the Gepidae, surrounded by great and famous rivers. For the Tisia flows through it on the north and northwest, and on the southwest is the great Danube.

On the east it is cut by the Flutausis, a swiftly eddying stream that sweeps whirling into the Ister's
waters. Within these rivers lies Dacia, encircled by the 34 lofty Alps as by a crown." - Jordannes:V
(The Project Gutenberg eBook, The Origin and Deeds of the Goths, by Jordanes, Translated by Charles C. Mierow http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/14809 : V)

The name of the river should be Flautausis (i.e. in modern Romanian 'plutashi', eng. raftsmen; Flauta = to float.. raft).

Indeed, this river which today starts in the mountains as Bistritza and later as Siret down to the Danube was used by raftsmen until 1969 to convey timber down to Danube and therefore may be taken
as "Plutashi">>Plauta(u)si(s), the border of Gepidia with Caucoensi.

According to a decent map derived from Ptolemy (http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/macedonia_1849.jpg) the name of this river is "Cogaeonus"-downstream is Comidava,Agarus R. -the border between Moldavia and Wallachia until ~1500AD, i.e. a name related to the Getic sacred mountain Kogaion.


http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/macedonia_1849.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/macedonia_1849.jpg

The term "koga" is used locally today as an insult for the strangers, foreigners (not in dictionaries); the official name is Neamtz(usually denoting a german-a good reputation; the word is actually formed starting from the root "neam"=stock), as an euphemism for foreigner, since today there is a small Ukrainean community there; perhaps in antiquity Strabon(7:3:5) was told about the "Kogaionon" the border.

Oswiu
Saturday, January 31st, 2009, 10:30 PM
According to a decent map derived from Ptolemy
the name of this river is "Cogaeonus"-downstream is Comidava,Agarus R. -the border between Moldavia and Wallachia until ~1500AD, i.e. a name related to the Getic sacred mountain Kogaion.
Where do we hear about this sacred mountain, and what is its significance for the Getae?

The term "koga" is used locally today as an insult for the
strangers, foreigners (not in dictionaries); the official name is
Neamtz(usually denoting a german-a good reputation; the word is actually formed starting from the root "neam"=stock), as an euphemism for foreigner,
since today there is a small ucrainean community there; perhaps in
antiquity Strabon(7:3:5) was told about the "Kogaionon" the border.
Who do you view the Cogaensii as being in the Classical period? Another obscure subset of PalaeoBalkan speakers? Close cousins of the Dacians, in other words?
By the way, if Neamtz is a Rumanian word, it is certainly a borrowing from Slavonic, where 'Nemets' refers to an alien of different language, 'nemoi' meaning 'dumb', in contrast to the Slovene, the People of the Word 'Slovo'.

ciurchea
Monday, February 2nd, 2009, 12:17 AM
Where do we hear about this sacred mountain, and what is its significance for the Getae?

Who do you view the Cogaensii as being in the Classical period? Another obscure subset of PalaeoBalkan speakers? Close cousins of the Dacians, in other words?
By the way, if Neamtz is a Rumanian word, it is certainly a borrowing from Slavonic, where 'Nemets' refers to an alien of different language, 'nemoi' meaning 'dumb', in contrast to the Slovene, the People of the Word 'Slovo'.
1.Geography (VII, 3, 5) by Strabon wo states that the peak and the river near were denoted as Kogaionon(see th "koga") root.
2. It is possible that Neamtz may be borrowed from slavic, maybe the reverse is valid, but it has no pejorative meaning, on the contrary, it is suggested that it is a valuable imported item, as Germans are treated with repect.
3.The Cauconi appear separately of the Dacians, and ome blieve that Orphus was a Cauca king.(Association with Zamolxis return from Hell and Mithraic ressurection makes sense).

However, it is the first time that Dacia(Gepidia) and Caucaland are separated by a border, giving sense to further reading of Iordanes.