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Rahul
Sunday, November 10th, 2002, 04:48 PM
The Fertility/Earth Mother Phenomenon among the Indo-European People is neither archaic/mystical, nor extinct/old. It can be noticed on observation in various modern societies, from Indian East to the Skandinavian North And Irish West. The Mother goddess is a personification and acceptance of feminine power in furthering and nurturing life itself. And it is not a mere agent of procreation, it is a verification and understanding of the very bio-anthropological basis which sustains existence itself with the twin attributes of fertility and wisdom.

And the form which it takes as the Kamadhenu among the Vedic people, Audhumla in Norse, and Purmeiah for the Pars deserves a long due recognition for the Indo-European mind's inherent reflex to know and respect womanhood in normal times. Thunderous Maruts bring rain down to the earth as an agency to extend its fertile potential with the showers to produce food which will bestow life vigour in the humans. The following two hymns explain the way Earth as a mother facilitates sustenance.


Rik Ved 5:58
Even Earth hath spread herself wide at their coming, and they as husbands have with power impregned her.


Rik Ved 5:56
Earth, like a bounteous lady, liberal of her gifts, struck down and shaken, yet exultant, comes to us.


In ancient Skandinavia, earth goddess known as 'Erda', and there have been many suggestions that Odin's wife Frigg or the Vanir goddess Freyja too might have been the original Earth goddess. The all-father is also a puzzle, in the same manner as are its various forms in the Rik Ved, namely the Dyaur, Parjanya, Maruts With Indra. But the Vedic god most akin to Odin is Varuna, who has no major contention for becoming Earth's husband. Varuna is instead, the keeper of the eternal order, the lord of vastness, knowledge, wisdom as well as one who excites conflict and war. For the Skandinavians the parallels extend far too wide with other Vedic gods as well. Indra is easily recognisable as Thor, Dyaus is Thor, Parjanya is the husband of Fjörgyn, Saraswati is Freyja, Prithivi is Frigg.

Grimm, the famous scholar of IE in the ninteenth century, suggested that the Gothic Fairguni was a mountain and the ancients considered mountains as a seat of the thunder god. The name is preserved in the old norse as Fjorgyn-mother of Thor. The Northern Indo-Europeans have the feminine deity Fjörgyn as the wife of the powerful masculine Fjörgynn. Fjörgyn was earth like Parjanya's wife Prithivi. But Odin took the place of Tiu, and then Fjörgynn and took lörd as wife and Fjörgyn becomes Thor's mother.

Thor himself is, the Edda tells us, married to Sif-a Sibyl. It is often doubted that Freyja was also a Sibyl, at least Stein Jarving of Norway's Eutopia Forlagt is of the opinion. Sibyls were akin to women wizards in various disciplines. Such Sibyls were not altogether missing from the Proto Indo-European traditions. In the Veds, Saraswati is offered sacrifices. Saraswati is the river, much of whose course disappeared when climate conditions in the Indian North West became temperate. The entire river is now supposed to be buried under the ground and satellite imagery has suggested some evidence of its real existence when the hymns of the Veds were first composed.

The puzzle of Sarasvati needs to solved, we already have the course of Markanda, a tributary of Sarasvati mentioned in the ancient legends of India. The course of Sarasvati is described in the Veds, a similar course, from the mountains to the plains, does the Markanda course go through, before disappearing in Shahabad in modern India's Haryana State. Adding to the mystery is a stream in a village called Mustafabad, south west of Shahabad, where the Vedic Sarasvati, had it followed the course of Markanda, must have had its riverbed in some form. Is the modern seasonal river the perennial Vedic Sarasvati? Infact, it is. We cannot deny the bare naked evidence as our motherland presents to us and as it has still retained that ancient Vedic name, flows through the same course.

The allusion to this is quite honestly a need to admit that Rik Ved is of a greater antiquity than what Modern Christian/Nihilist authors want us to learn. And I may say here that if we agree the date to be between 4000 BCE and 2000 BCE, and the Sarasvati dried up around 2100 BCE, the Vedi bards knew all along the river which they sung praises to and the river which illumined their minds with purity of thoughts. The Vedic Aryas go back 2000 years in history.

But this will never be acceptable to hsitorians who proudly propound and exagerate the myths perpetrated by the jews and the jokes which they played on the Romans and the entity of the Fakir kind they created in Yeshu Ben Pendera and reckoning its historicity with a zionist zeal. Truth can be perverted to help the cause of a creed, then they will most viciously do it.

But we must understand why our forefathers worshipped Sarasvan bestowing life. The river which irrigated the farming land and generated produce for the agrarian Vedic people, the Bharatas, naturally deserves piety as comes to a mother and reverence as comes to that which is a source of life. Some climate change must have dried the great river and while it flowed and made the soil of Aryaverta fertile, it attained enormous goodwill and love of the Vedic Aryas and their highest thoughts and wisdom would speak highly of its surging waves rousing their desires and intellect for knowledge as well.

The river thus, was the feminine equivalent of the masculine thunder and rain gods in Bharat. It was also the manifestation of the feminine free spirited vigour which is visible from Rik Ved 7:95 and Rik Ved 7:96. The inherent attribute of making lands fertile during her course, she bears the greatest resemblance with the Skandinavian Vanir goddess Freyja. Freyja is no less an equal of Thor and she is often believed to be Odin's wife, and she gets to learn much of knowledge from Odin..

The parallel is to be observed in the Veds, Sarasvati is the goddess of pure learning and wisdom, intellect and wit. She is, in many ways, a feminine equivalent of Varuna. Odin and Varuna, Sarasvati and Freyja!

During the post-Vedic period, the cosmology was inverted and excessive ritualism perpetrated for realising the self within. By the time Brahmanas appeared with their scholastic discussions and debates, much of sense of the Veds had been lost. This is in truth, a lesson, an instance of a people losing their dynamism and their sight of existential joy vanishing and nihilism sinking in. But we also have the Upanishads-the Brihadaraneyaka, the Chhandogya, the Mundaka and some few other originals.

That was a period when Aadhar, Atman and Brahman were being thought of, but feminine deities would never be the same again in Bharat. What may have happened? Did the river go dry and men lose their sense of the good which womanhood is so great for, its practical earthly wisdom, vigour which is enthralling and gifts which are plenty and unhesitatingly coming!

We may never have an answer to these since this is another age consisting of another people and another value set (if there is a value set at all!!!). But worse still is the perversion and despicable conduct which some are allowed to, and the consequence of which transpires in the brutal treatment of women, in dowry deaths all across the country, female infanticide, repressions on female expression and choices, their very basic rights, which the rotten constitution of this nation claims to have given unto them for their 'deliverance'. Some very apt, and besides being apt instances of abuse at the hand of their communist masters they are utterly annoying with their vicious and regular diatribe against the Vedic traditions and lores, examples of liberated women are Brinda Karat and Suhasini Ali, of some allegedly social service organisations, act out in front of the "media" their role of playing modern gods. And a mass of lemmings of feeble mental faculties nod in appreciation.

Now we also need to reassess the Origin of the Indo-European people, including the way their languages traveled far and wide with their genes and thoughts. It is possible that between 7000-2000 BCE, the Skandinavian North saw migrations to the south east, an exact opposite of what Snorre alludes to in his works. The emergence or the presence in truth, of Sarasvati can not serve as an obiter dicta to the very real Indo-European Unity, but it only furthers it. Sarasvati-Freyja had to be a river.

The North Western India became the homeland of a group of people who were the Aryas and composers of the Vedas and framers of a beautiful language and they had some settlements showing the exceptional civilisation building acumen in them, excavated in the Harappa/Mohen Jo Daro finds. The finds of these primitive Indus valley civilisations were presented as a hoax in the form of Pre-Aryan Indus valley civilisation, whereas the truth seems to be otherwise. The historians who found and researched, happen to be either Christian missionaries or those with an intent of vilifying yet another Indo-European civilisation.

If Harappa is overly represented as a non-IE civilisation, it is completely mischievous and unthinkable.

Magog
Wednesday, December 25th, 2002, 11:26 PM
Good work. I see you have but a lot of effort into this. Is it known when Odin lead his people out of the east?

What was the cause of leaving India?

Was it the Great war? I am thinking not, for the War was only some 5000 years ago, and I think the Aryans were in Northrn Europe much longer then that.

The Saga of the Aryans talsk of a time when we came out of the Artic circle into India and Iran. Could it also be that a branch then broke off and went into Europe at this time?

Also have you read any on Col. James Churchward, adn his ideas of Mu?

The four cosmic forces of life I see as the Swastika repersenting the Unified threory our scientist are looking for now.

Life, Swastika... What our DNA double Helix looks like if you looked at from above...

I love the Vedas. I see the Vedas as our peoples lost Scientific works coded and left behind for us.

Azdaja
Thursday, December 26th, 2002, 04:23 PM
I've read that the pre-Indo-European inhabitants of Europe cheifly worshipped a "Great Goddess" of fertility, along with a "horned god" and sometimes a child as well. It's from this very early triad that wiccans and other "neo-pagans" draw some of their beleifs from.
The Indo-Europeans were more focused on solar-worship, and imposed their very different gods over the people they conquered. Yet in many cases the "older" goddesses and gods survived and were incorporated into IE mythology. Some good examples would be Hecate and possibly Demeter, as well as Pan and Volos (Slavic).

Rahul
Friday, December 27th, 2002, 08:44 AM
I find the Earliest Vedic Hymns from the Rik Ved to be highly reverent to the Earth(Mata Prithivi) and Sky(Dyaur/Indra/Vrishabh/brihaspati).

If you closely look at it, its spirituality is more like Earth-Sky. Even Vrishabh(horned bull) or Brihaspati is the god of the highest sky. But then we also have Indra & Dyaur, Varuna, Vishnu and Parjanya.

Will Continue

Azdaja
Friday, December 27th, 2002, 08:48 AM
Rahul -
I know very little about the Vedas, but you touched on something of possible personal significance to me.
You mention Earth and Sky.
1) What can you tell me about those Gods?
2) Do they unite to produce a 3rd God that you would link to fire?

Rahul
Friday, December 27th, 2002, 05:26 PM
Fire has come from the Sun. Sun is indeed there in the Rik Ved.

It is known by many names, and different names explain different attributes of the sun, and sometimes it is not the physical sun alone which is being mentioned, it refers to the cosmic light, or optimism, of hope and of truth and knowledge which is aspired.

And a lot more.

Agni has many mothers and in some hymns it's birth is explained the way Heimdall's is in the Norse.

Surya-the sun, in the Rik Ved is a goddess daughter of the sun god.

It has a chariot driven by Asvin brothers.

Sul's chariot is coursed by Alsvin & Arvakr.

I hope to talk more on this.

Azdaja
Saturday, December 28th, 2002, 01:58 AM
<< Even Vrishabh(horned bull) or Brihaspati is the god of the highest sky >>

See, I find this part interesting also. A sky god is given a shape usually representative of earth.
What are the attributes of this God? What sort of things is he responsible for?
I'm finding this very interesting. I was given a sort of "riddle" a couple years back that pertains to earth, sky, and fire. I never thought to look to the Vedas for the answer, but based on what you're saying I might do just that.