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Mrs. Lyfing
Wednesday, December 3rd, 2008, 03:37 PM
I was wondering who is vegetarians here?

I was also wondering why you are a vegetarian? You don't like meat? Or you think its wrong to eat animals?

For the vegetarians...how do you get protein? And, what does everyone think on the effects of the people's health who do/or do not eat meat?

Just curious on the topic. :)

Cythraul
Wednesday, December 3rd, 2008, 03:48 PM
I was wondering who is vegetarians here?

I'm vegan.



I was also wondering why you are a vegetarian? You don't like meat? Or you think its wrong to eat animals?

Neither. Primarily it is because I fundamentally disagree with factory farming. Genuine free-range (many self-proclaimed 'free-range' products I'm skeptical about) is good, but one cannot be certain when eating pre-made foods (chocolate, cakes, meals in restaurants etc).



For the vegetarians...how do you get protein?

Nuts, seeds, lentils, chick-peas, beans, oats, vegetables, non-GM soy, rice protein concentrate. I get more than enough.

Deary
Wednesday, December 3rd, 2008, 05:23 PM
Neither. Primarily it is because I fundamentally disagree with factory farming. Genuine free-range (many self-proclaimed 'free-range' products I'm skeptical about) is good, but one cannot be certain when eating pre-made foods (chocolate, cakes, meals in restaurants etc).

Instead of withholding meat (and other dairy products?) from your diet, why not create more demand for free-range meats by investing in them instead of having to survive on many alternative protein sources? There must be farms nearby or places like organic food stores where you can purchase free-range meat. These factories you oppose are not going to be affected any by your avoidance of meat. In fact, it's likely to hurt you more than them. So why not be a little more productive and healthy by increasing the want for free-range products?

Mac Seafraidh
Wednesday, December 3rd, 2008, 07:21 PM
I am vegetarian because I care for animals. They should not be murdered in cold blood just for people to eat. Humans have evolved just as the food pyramid has. There are plenty of alternatives to meat. Now, I do understand animals themselves kill for food however a human can prevent animal deaths by not killing them at all. I have heard pigs actually do not carry any odors really, so they can be house pets. They are intelligent animals: http://www.goveg.com/f-hiddenlivespigs.asp

I am pro-gun though because guns can be used for protection and or for sport.

I do eat dairy and eggs, so I am a lacto-ovo vegetarian.

Cythraul
Wednesday, December 3rd, 2008, 09:08 PM
Instead of withholding meat (and other dairy products?) from your diet, why not create more demand for free-range meats by investing in them instead of having to survive on many alternative protein sources? There must be farms nearby or places like organic food stores where you can purchase free-range meat. These factories you oppose are not going to be affected any by your avoidance of meat. In fact, it's likely to hurt you more than them. So why not be a little more productive and healthy by increasing the want for free-range products?
My health is just fine, but thanks for your concern ;). I don't not eat animal products as a form of effective protest, I do it because it makes me comfortable to know I personally haven't knowingly contributed to the suffering of innocent creatures. Free range food is great, but I find it easier to cut it all out rather than navigate the complications that would arise from only eating meat and dairy under certain circumstances and not others. Finding vegan food is only difficult when eating out, but likewise, finding meat and dairy that is guaranteed genuine free range when eating out would be just as difficult.

Haereticus
Wednesday, December 3rd, 2008, 09:45 PM
I'm not sure if it was anything to do with the anthropomorphising effect of cartoons and every other form of childrens' entertainment from Disney etc., but I always felt empathy towards animals and tried to avoid harming or hurting them.

Recently I was driving and noticed ahead of me a rabbit hopping around in the centre of the road. I checked my rear view mirror and stopped, as it was safe to do so. The driver in the vehicle behind me was paying no attention and rear-ended my car. We exchanged insurance details and he asked why I had stopped there. When I told him he was exasperated and exclaimed "You stopped for a rabbit?! He didn't seem any happier when I pointed out that it was a baby rabbit! :-) I'm not on a moral crusade. I'd eat rabbit, or other meat if I really need to, but I'd rather not.

When I was about ten years old I found some boys from my school laughing while they impaled live frogs on a metal pole. I was appalled at the psychopathic cruelty and bestiality. I battered one and pushed one into the pond (in a non-hypocritical, caring and compassionate way).

At about fifteen years old I went shooting with a friend. When I went to collect the corpse of a bird I'd shot I felt quite sick and vowed never to kill anything else that wasn't intending to harm me. Some years later, having read more watched various documentaries on industrial farming and meat production, I decided I didn't want to be part of this brutality or to eat this stuff any more. I adopted a vegan diet. Some years after that I was living with somebody who was a meat eater. I became more pragmatic in my old age and so we reached a compromise. She gave up eating meat and poultry and I would eat fish and dairy produce.

Eating fish does feel a bit 'wrong' to me, but apart from the thorny issues of overfishing and environmental damage from fish farming, I don't have any real moral qualms about it. I'm not absolutist and see it as a very personal issue. It's a question of degrees of sentience. Although I accept that fish are indeed sentient, they're not in precisely the same way as we are, in my opinion. I don't doubt that they suffer, but that's all part of life and death and the chain of life. Ultimately I console myself with the fact that they are all carnivores, so even if they were capable of complaining, they really wouldn't have a leg to stand on... so to speak.

I feel worse about eating dairy produce. That's directly supporting the mass production meat and slaughter industry. This, in my opinion, is clearly cruel. It damages the environment and is wasteful of land and resources. The high fat content of dairy produce isn't good for my heart or waistline. I'm thinking of abolishing dairy from my diet, but I tend to try to just avoid it. It does take a real effort to 'religiously' avoid foods, as anybody who is wheat or lactose intolerant, or who has a nut allergy will testify.

Praetorianer
Wednesday, December 3rd, 2008, 10:26 PM
Vegetarian, not vegan anymore, because my girlfriend suffered from a lack of B12.
Iīm against the industrial exploitation of living creatures, but the main reasons have a more spiritual background, which could be compared with the ingestion of food the Brahmins, but with a more personal orientation.

Haereticus
Wednesday, December 3rd, 2008, 10:58 PM
Vegetarian, not vegan anymore, because my girlfriend suffered from a lack of B12...

Isn't Marmite packed with B12?

Praetorianer
Thursday, December 4th, 2008, 08:25 AM
I never heard of this one, but I would in any case donīt buy stuff produced by Unilever. ;)
You may know there is the myth that B12 is contained in sallow thorn, sauerkraut and even beer, but all of them never were proved. I could imagine that itīs the same here.
You could state that there is also B12 in most energy-drinks or fruit-juices, but all the them are added and synthetical and my girlfriend and I didnīt wanted to get B12 with this kind of sources, you may understand.

Cythraul
Thursday, December 4th, 2008, 08:42 AM
B12 is formed by bacteria most commonly present in the gut of animals. It is not created by animals, just found most commonly within them. As disgusting as it sounds, the best way to get sufficient B12 (even for meat-eaters) would be to eat faeces. Thus for a vegan to get B12 naturally, just eat partially unwashed vegetables where the soil would contain remnants of dirt and faeces. I eat organic vegetables and don't scrub every speck of dirt off of them.

Haereticus
Thursday, December 4th, 2008, 10:53 AM
I never heard of this one, but I would in any case donīt buy stuff produced by Unilever. ;)....

There are many other brands of yeast extract. In the UK most supermarkets have their own brand. Not so sure about where you are. No pressure, just trying to be helpful :)

I was completely vegan for about 5-6 years, I didn't suffer any vitamin deficiency, protein or energy problems. I was running marathons at that time. A 'restricted' diet does make you think seriously about what you're eating, especially when meat eaters, whose knowledge of nutrition is often limited to what they've heard from the Meat and Milk marketing organisations (my mother), pound on about protein.

I gave up boycotting companies years ago. It's nearly impossible to keep track of who owns what, as they're constantly buying and selling bits of each other. Virtually every big company has some connection I would be unhappy about endorsing, from moving production to China to promoting multi-cult advertising etc.

P.S. Incidentally, Marmite, and similar products are bi-product of the beer brewing industry.