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Nachtengel
Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 10:48 PM
I have a question about rule 1 (b).


1 (b). The account of Members that are judged to be, even if only partly ethnically non-Germanic, may be unappealably terminated if their contributions, either individually or in combination with the contributions of other such members, either by force of their numbers or their impact, are increasingly considered a risk to the integrity of or a burden to Skadi Forum, its Mission Statement, or its Germanic community.

How much non-Germanic/non-White heritage is accepted here? I am asking because we have a 1/4 Romani member here and to be honest, the thought makes me kind of uncomfortable, as I am a racialist. Would a 1/4 Black person be accepted for example? What about a 1/2 Black or Asian person? Where does the limit lay?

Fortis_in_Arduis
Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 10:58 PM
Yes, that is me. Should I leave the forum?

I think that might have to as Hanna has intellectually upstaged me time and time again, not to mention Baerin.



Rule 3 : ridicule of Members.
Rule 4 : discourteous and ungentlemanly conduct towards female Members.

Forseti

Nachtengel
Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 11:02 PM
Yes, that is me. Should I leave the forum?
In my opinion, if you care about racialism, you should. Otherwise, I think you should be banned. If not for your Romani ancestry which isn't exactly negligible, then for your constant vulgarities and insults like this one:

I think that might have to as Hanna has intellectually upstaged me time and time again, not to mention Baerin.

But that's my opinion. I'm obviously not Staff, so I'm asking them where the line is drawn.

Anfang
Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 11:03 PM
I have a question about rule 1 (b).



How much non-Germanic/non-White heritage is accepted here? I am asking because we have a 1/4 Romani member here and to be honest, the thought makes me kind of uncomfortable, as I am a racialist. Would a 1/4 Black person be accepted for example? What about a 1/2 Black or Asian person? Where does the limit lay?

No "1/4 Romani" No way, Gypsies, are you kidding?!



No People who are Jewish, No Latin Americans who are not 15/16ths west European. No one who is not at least 15/16th West European.
I would make an exeption for Western polaks and North Russians of Germanic Ancestry, and West Ukrainians who the third reich Judged good enough to Umvolk.

Neither Southern Italians and Spanish and Greeks = very questionable, but they are In Western Europe.

Volksdeutscher
Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 11:04 PM
You forgot to ask which categories these people are in. If they're friends with a moderator, they're going to be allowed, d'oh. Some excuse that no one is pure will be given, plus the thread will be closed. ;)

Nachtengel
Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 11:07 PM
No "1/4 Romani" No way, Gypsies, are you kidding?
I am not kidding. There are at least two members here with Romani ancestry. One is Fortis, who just revealed he is 1/4, another is this one (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=910585#post910585).

Fortis_in_Arduis
Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 11:09 PM
I would like the thread to reopen.

By the way, I have discussed my Romani ancestry on numerous occasions. It is nothing new for forum regulars.

Nachtengel
Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 11:11 PM
I would like the thread to reopen.
So would I. I can't understand why the thread was closed.

Volksdeutscher
Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 11:13 PM
I'm going to invite my half Gypsy acquaintances to the forum since it's alright.

Æmeric
Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 11:44 PM
I don't think I ever seen a real gypsy before but Fortis_in_Arduis doesn't look non-Europid to me. To be honest he looks more English to me then Oswiu. There are plenty of fullblooded English who look way more exotic. He's acceptable to me as English/Germanic.


http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk294/fortis28/DSC00393.jpg

Bärin
Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 11:45 PM
Yes, that is me. Should I leave the forum?
Yes. You aren't Germanic or white. You're a mongrel, so you don't belong on a preservationist forum. Ask anyone here if they'd open their family door to someone with 1/4 Gypsy blood and I doubt any true racialist would. Not to mention your philosemitism. You show little like for Germanic preservation, and more for defending foreigners and enemies of Germanics. :|

OneEnglishNorman
Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 11:52 PM
I have a question about rule 1 (b).



How much non-Germanic/non-White heritage is accepted here? I am asking because we have a 1/4 Romani member here and to be honest, the thought makes me kind of uncomfortable, as I am a racialist. Would a 1/4 Black person be accepted for example? What about a 1/2 Black or Asian person? Where does the limit lay?

Ask the staff in a PM?

Nachtengel
Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 11:55 PM
Ask the staff in a PM?
I prefer to ask in the Help forum, because it's a matter several other members have been wondering about, so a public statement would be better than a private one because it would clear some things for many of us.

Thanks for the extremely useful suggestion though. ;)

Bärin
Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 11:58 PM
I agree. I think it's a question which requires a public answer, not only for the current members, but for the onlookers who might want to join too. If someone is 1/4 non-white and wants to join, looking at this thread would give him an idea whether he's welcome to or not.

Fortis_in_Arduis
Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 11:58 PM
I actually do not care what you think Baerin.

Nachtengel
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 12:00 AM
I actually do not care what you think Baerin.
Why did you ask the question then, if you don't care what people will answer?

Fortis_in_Arduis
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 12:01 AM
Why did you ask the question then, if you don't care what people will answer?

I might care what you think. Then again, I might not.

What is it to you anyway?

Nachtengel
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 12:08 AM
I might care what you think. Then again, I might not.
You fail to see the bigger picture, though. This isn't about you only, it's about members with significant non-White ancestry.


What is it to you anyway?
I thought I was joining a racialist and preservationist forum, that's what's it to me. It's important for me to know whether this forum upholds its standards, or if it's turned into just another multiracial, politically correct, mainstream forum.

If I were a new member and I saw the things going on around here, I wouldn't see why I should choose Skadi over eNationalist, Stormfront, Grossdeutsches Vaterland or another forum where they at least limit themselves to White people only. This thread should ring an alarm bell that something's changed around here, and not for the better, might I say.

Grimm
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 12:09 AM
I would make an exeption for Western polaks

Phew. I'm safe. That was close.:)

Æmeric
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 12:11 AM
If I were a new member and I saw the things going on around here, I wouldn't see why I should choose Skadi over eNationalist, Stormfront, Grossdeutsches Vaterland or another forum where they at least limit themselves to White people only.This thread should ring an alarm bell that something's changed around here, and not for the better, might I say.
How do you know they don't have members who aren't pure? We have to go on the honor system. You don't know if there are people on those forums who are really 1/2 Jewish or 1/4 Mexican.

Grimm
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 12:14 AM
How do you know they don't have members who aren't pure? We have to go on the honor system. You don't know if there are people on those forums who are really 1/2 Jewish or 1/4 Mexican.

That's a whole other subject. This thread is about admitted mongrels.

Teutonic
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 12:15 AM
I think the question is quality VS quantity.How many people here that are not full Germanics do we allow in here?What is acceptable? I have distanced myself from family members and friends who choose to mix.I would not let them in my house.I have to deal with non-whites and non-Germanics everyday, that pushes my tolerance level to its limits.In here I want to be with just my own.Members in here that are only part Germanic, but are good and for our people, heritage and blood I think should stay.When I say that I think of Bloodaxis, sorry to use your name, but you make thoughtful and good congtributions to this forum.And I am glad to learn and listen to you.I am not a moderator to make decisions though.

The one member in here giving the finger to a Women while debating with her was disgusting, and if in the streets I know I wouldve behaved much less civalized than I did in my post.For I dont take that as just a slight against her, but against me, my family and everything I stand for and protect.

Nachtengel
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 12:16 AM
I don't think I ever seen a real gypsy before but Fortis_in_Arduis doesn't look non-Europid to me. To be honest he looks more English to me then Oswiu. There are plenty of fullblooded English who look way more exotic. He's acceptable to me as English/Germanic.
Appearance can be deceiving though, especially if you judge it by online pictures. Take a look back to your classification thread of this woman ("http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=87713). Her pictures were good enough to deceive even Agrippa, one of the best classifiers.


How do you know they don't have members who aren't pure? We have to go on the honor system. You don't know if there are people on those forums who are really 1/2 Jewish or 1/4 Mexican.
I don't, I think people should be allowed the benefit of the doubt. I'm talking about those who admit foreign ancestry and display it openly, like Fortis here. Known 1/2 and 1/4 non-White ancestry is too much to consider someone White or Germanic, at least in my book.

Anfang
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 12:16 AM
I don't think I ever seen a real gypsy before but Fortis_in_Arduis doesn't look non-Europid to me. To be honest he looks more English to me then Oswiu. There are plenty of fullblooded English who look way more exotic. He's acceptable to me as English/Germanic.


Well, my German Grandmother was a simple lady. and her advice was often laconic and short. "When choosing a wife ".she said, "dont look at the parents, look at the grandparents.

I wanted blue-eyed kids, So since I have 3 blue eyed grandparents, I married someone with blue eyes, whose parents had blue eyes. My kids have ble eyes.
grandma was right.

Oswiu
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 12:23 AM
I don't think I ever seen a real gypsy before but Fortis_in_Arduis doesn't look non-Europid to me. To be honest he looks more English to me then Oswiu. There are plenty of fullblooded English who look way more exotic. He's acceptable to me as English/Germanic.

I believe he not only looks, but IS more English than I am!

But then again, I'm quite as quantitatively English as Kings Aldfrith and Alhfrith Oswiuing of Northumbria. That some people's 'rules' would exclude such important figures in English history should cause them to rethink matters a little, methinks.

Nachtengel
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 12:26 AM
I believe he not only looks, but IS more English than I am!

But then again, I'm quite as quantitatively English as Kings Aldfrith and Alhfrith Oswiuing of Northumbria.
Were those kings 1/4 Romani or some other non-White ancestry?


That some people's 'rules' would exclude such important figures in English history should cause them to rethink matters a little, methinks.
It's not "some people's rules", it's this site's rules, your own rules which as moderators you're supposed to uphold. Or that's not true anymore and you just go by personal whim?

Sigurd
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 12:29 AM
Ask anyone here if they'd open their family door to someone with 1/4 Gypsy blood and I doubt any true racialist would.

Actually, I would open my family door to two noticeable people with 1/4 gypsy blood, consider myself a Nationalist/Racialist. I have actually shared a flat with one of the two on two occasions, and roomed with the other in boarding school for an entire year. Sorry to disappoint you.

One of them is Fortis. I grant you that at the time I had no knowledge of his 1/4 Gitano ancestry --- and for a fact, nor did he. He had believed his biological mother to be fully Austrian; and being adopted, it only turned out I think around last year that he had 1/4 Romani/Gitano ancestry. He has never met said grandfather either, as he died a long while ago, so there was no way even for himself to know.

The other one is a very good friend, to whom I have opened my family door on occasions so numerous that I have lost count. Mind you, he is only technically 1/4-1/8 "gypsy" as his grandmother came from a travelling family. There, his great-grandmother came from a family which had just "chosen" to be travellers ages ago, more like "wandering circus people", whilst his great-grandfather came from a Jenisch family. The Jenische people are generally thought to be either direct descendants of the Celts, and some rare few even believe them to be ethnic Germanics who chose a travelling life aeons ago. They are often called "white Gypsies" because of their general light pigment (as opposed to Romani and Sinti).

For reference, here are several average Jenisch families and people, I dare you to find the non-Europid in them. ;)


http://www.aller-anfang-ist-begegnung.ch/s.9_fahrende.gif
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/JenischeOstschweiz1900.jpg
http://www.jenisch.name/Bilder%20zur%20Geschichte/92dolfhuserwoz14kb.jpg
http://www.ulrich-siewers.de/mediac/400_0/media/DIR_93801/Jenische_um1890-kl.jpg

I also knew and spoke repeatedly to a woman here in Aberdeen who was of substantial Irish Traveller ancestry, she classified as a Trønder type. She was pred. Scottish and Ulster Scots but had some Tinker ancestry. I never had much to do with her, but she is notable for saving my hair when I fell asleep on a couch and found the first incarnation of my beard gone. :P

Come to terms with it, being of a travelling background doesn't necessarily mean extra-European influence. There will be many reasons why people in the past may have chosen to lead a travelling life.


Not to mention your philosemitism.

He has since learnt the error of going out with a quarter Jewish girl of pred. Bruennid phenotype. And you should know him about three years ago - he was the most anti-Semitic people around.

Anything else - if he says something about Jews, then he is just rectifying things. His liberal father had many connections to leaders of religious minorities and thought that his son should learn as much as possible about them...

As for anything else and his views to support the far right in Israel to keep the leftist zionist from staying in power. Since the NSDAP also supported such measures, I suppose they were also philosemites?! ;)


You show little like for Germanic preservation, and more for defending foreigners and enemies of Germanics. :|

As an activist for over ten years I believe he has done more for Germanic preservation and English/British Nationalism than most on this board have. He has met with living family members of prominent early Nationalists and once even met personally with a relative of the Mosley/Mitford clan, as far as I have been told. I'd like to see you achieve that by the time you reach his age. ;)

Bärin
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 12:30 AM
I believe he not only looks, but IS more English than I am!

But then again, I'm quite as quantitatively English as Kings Aldfrith and Alhfrith Oswiuing of Northumbria. That some people's 'rules' would exclude such important figures in English history should cause them to rethink matters a little, methinks.
Aha, so you're less English than a 1/4 Gypsy person. Oh, and you have a Russian girlfriend. WHAT are you doing on a forum for Germanic preservation, I ask again, especially on staff? :|

Nachtengel
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 12:36 AM
As an activist for over ten years I believe he has done more for Germanic preservation and English/British Nationalism than most on this board have.
How do you know what the rest of board members have done? Just because most people here aren't boasting about their activities, either out of modesty or privacy, it doesn't mean that they haven't done anything. I think it's somehow ignorant and arrogant to assume that most people here haven't done anything much.

Sigurd
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 12:38 AM
Aha, so you're less English than a 1/4 Gypsy person. Oh, and you have a Russian girlfriend. WHAT are you doing on a forum for Germanic preservation, I ask again, especially on staff? :|

As far as I am aware, Oswiu has almost equal amounts of Germanic and Celtic ancestry, with the English ancestry predominating ('t was either 62.5% or 75% I seem to recall?) whereas we must bear in mind that many Irish came across in the 18th and 19th century. I feel that whilst they cannot be seen as purely English in their ancestry, they most certainly cannot be seen as purely Irish either, and as such, they are probably some "middle value", whereas it would be a folly to discount them from the larger "Germanic" description, they have positively merged into the English population, most people will have some Irish or Welsh ancestry in the United Kingdom of today. ;)


How do you know what the rest of board members have done? Just because most people here aren't boasting about their activities, either out of modesty or privacy, it doesn't mean that they haven't done anything. I think it's somehow ignorant and arrogant to assume that most people here haven't done anything much.

I am not pointing any fingers. If you have done much, then Kudos to you. It was more directed at Bärin, really, who boasts that at age 18 she has done so extremely much for Germanic Preservation: I am sure she devotes every free minute to it and has done so for the past X years, but it is just not physically possible that she has done more than he has, since he has been a major activist for 12+ years - so unless she started leafletting when she was 6... you've not seen Fortis in action, and the reputation he got himself at campus in campaigning so vigorously. ;)

Oswiu
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 12:39 AM
Aha, so you're less English than a 1/4 Gypsy person. Oh, and you have a Russian girlfriend. WHAT are you doing on a forum for Germanic preservation, I ask again, especially on staff? :|

Oops! My mistake, from Sigurd's post I am reminded that Fortis is actually AS English as I am (quantitatively speaking, which isn't quite everything). :P

If you start kicking out people like me, She-Bear, there's a very large proportion of Englishmen who wouldn't be able to join the forum too. If I'm 'beyond the Pale', then we might as well give up on the greater part of the northwest of England (and vast swathes of Germany), and keep shrinking and shrinking our Germanic world until it's just you, Todesengel and a dozen others, fighting a pointless guerrilla war in the Spreewald as the hordes move in for the kill.

Æmeric
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 12:40 AM
He had believed his biological mother to be fully Austrian; and being adopted, it only turned out I think around last year that he had 1/4 Romani/Gitano ancestry.

There is the danger in researching your heritage, you never know what you will find. Somethings are not so obvious when looking at yourself in the mirror. Those who believe in the one-drop purity rule would be advise to never take up genealogy least they might suffer an identity crisis. You never know if you might be part Gypsy yourself or Jew or god forbid some Mongolid Slav.

Guntwachar
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 12:42 AM
I agree with Todesengel that it does look a bit weird a forum for Germanic preservation and members that are of mixed ancestry... but to be honoust that isnt even something that annoys me yet since these people show love for there Germanic side.

I have a real problem with members that obvisiously have no Germanic ancestry at all and they dont seem to care at all about Germanic culture, there are a few of them on this forum wich also openly state that they have not 1 Germanic ancestor.

Next to that not every "gypsy" was actually non European, there were also European and Germanic people that travelled with a Gypsy circus or just a group of Gypsys and they were seen as Gypsys.
How well the latter part wasnt that common......

Bärin
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 12:45 AM
Actually, I would open my family door to two noticeable people with 1/4 gypsy blood, consider myself a Nationalist/Racialist. I have actually shared a flat with one of the two on two occasions, and roomed with the other in boarding school for an entire year. Sorry to disappoint you.
I meant would you allow a 1/4 Gypsy person to marry your daughter, for example.


For reference, here are several average Jenisch families and people, I dare you to find the non-Europid in them. ;)

http://www.aller-anfang-ist-begegnung.ch/s.9_fahrende.gif
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/JenischeOstschweiz1900.jpg
http://www.jenisch.name/Bilder%20zur%20Geschichte/92dolfhuserwoz14kb.jpg
http://www.ulrich-siewers.de/mediac/400_0/media/DIR_93801/Jenische_um1890-kl.jpg
See what Todesengel said about appearance and pictures.

He has since learnt the error of going out with a quarter Jewish girl of pred. Bruennid phenotype. And you should know him about three years ago - he was the most anti-Semitic people around.


As for anything else and his views to support the far right in Israel to keep the leftist zionist from staying in power. Since the NSDAP also supported such measures, I suppose they were also philosemites?! ;)
I am not a Nationalsocialist so I don't care what the NSDAP supported. They also allowed 1/4 Jews to be German, so I disagree with them.


As an activist for over ten years I believe he has done more for Germanic preservation and English/British Nationalism than most on this board have. He has met with living family members of prominent early Nationalists and once even met personally with a relative of the Mosley/Mitford clan, as far as I have been told. I'd like to see you achieve that by the time you reach his age. ;)
I've achieved enough at my age thanks very much. I am politically affiliated, and before that I was at protests, while your co-staffers mocked the "futility" of being there or in politics nowadays because "it does nothing".

Thanks for the ad hominems and insults anyhow, I see you couldn't miss doing your number against me once again.

Oswiu
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 12:51 AM
As far as I am aware, Oswiu has almost equal amounts of Germanic and Celtic ancestry,
I am probably just over half, as my Irish paternal half is at least a quarter English, and my maternal side includes a great grandfather with a very Irish surname but oddly English/Protestant forenames (Samuel Edward). Call it 9/16 English.

whereas we must bear in mind that many Irish came across in the 18th and 19th century.
The many towns Ireby ('Village of the Irishmen'), and I can think of at least five, witness that this has been going on in northern England since at least the Ninth Century.
Other example of mixed Germanic/Irish settlements that have been here as long include legions of such names as Yockenthwaite, Duggleby, Melmersby, Glassonby, Mellonby, Commondale, Malmesbury, etc...

Anfang
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 12:53 AM
I think this can be a good thread, if we all maintain our cool, wirklich.

Bärin
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 12:54 AM
Oops! My mistake, from Sigurd's post I am reminded that Fortis is actually AS English as I am (quantitatively speaking, which isn't quite everything). :P

If you start kicking out people like me, She-Bear, there's a very large proportion of Englishmen who wouldn't be able to join the forum too. If I'm 'beyond the Pale', then we might as well give up on the greater part of the northwest of England (and vast swathes of Germany), and keep shrinking and shrinking our Germanic world until it's just you, Todesengel and a dozen others, fighting a pointless guerrilla war in the Spreewald as the hordes move in for the kill.
You're the one who started about being less English than a 1/4 Gypsy so don't complain it back-fired now. You know that's not my no. 1 problem with you anyway, now, Oswiu. ;) My problem is that you don't promote or take a role in Germanic ethnic or meta-ethnic preservation either, because you date a Russian girl, a non-Germanic, a foreigner, while Russian IPs are banned from this forum, because Russians are considered aliens which "dilute" our cause or whatever were the words of the new Skadi owner. How do you reconcile that? You know very well that most members here don't buy that dating a Slav counts as Germanic preservation, and if we had one of those consultative referendums, many would vote you out, and rightly so. You had a choice Oswiu, and you chose foreigners over your own countrymen, you chose to mix with aliens. You are part of the enemy now because you are aiding him, like the native Germans who mix with foreigners. They're doing exactly what the multicultis want them to do. The first step is accepting Russians and Poles, the next is Albanians, Bulgarians, Georgians, then it's Greeks and Turks, until the rock bottom is hit and everyone mix with Niggers.

Loddfafner
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 01:00 AM
I look at a forum in terms of its signal-to-noise ratio. I would rather read the posts of a supposed mongrel who contributes to the forum's content and raises the level of discourse than read those of a purebred that constantly and repetitively whines like a broken record.

Nachtengel
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 01:01 AM
I am not pointing any fingers.
You were.


It was more directed at Bärin, really,
Yet you have the nerve to say, you weren't pointing any fingers?


who boasts that at age 18 she has done so extremely much for Germanic Preservation: I am sure she devotes every free minute to it and has done so for the past X years, but it is just not physically possible that she has done more than he has, since he has been a major activist for 12+ years - so unless she started leafletting when she was 6... you've not seen Fortis in action, and the reputation he got himself at campus in campaigning so vigorously. ;)
I don't know what she did, but first of all, quality =/= quantity and second, you're the least indicated to start with the ageism here. Pretty convenient for you that she's only 18, isn't it. I'd leave the fingerpointing and ad hominems out of this thread.

My question has yet to be answered, by the way. I'd also stay on topic. It wouldn't be the first time you're getting yourself involved in stirring a thread off-topic and then complaining about it.

Teutonic
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 01:03 AM
I look at a forum in terms of its signal-to-noise ratio. I would rather read the posts of a supposed mutt who contributes to the forum's content and raises the level of discourse than read those of a purebred that constantly whines.



I wouldnt, because I can tolerate my own doing something annoying.And the fact that a purebred is here even if whining is better than someone of mixed heritage and mixed agenda raising the level of discourse.I am here first and foremost for the preservation of my people.The ones here of full Germanic blood should be able to get away with a little more than those of mixed heritage.

Sigurd
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 01:04 AM
I meant would you allow a 1/4 Gypsy person to marry your daughter, for example.

It depended on the type of gypsy involved in the ancestry and how it portrayed itself in phenotype and behaviour, and how much identification was felt with that part of their ancestry.

I am not sure for example whether I would let someone with 1/4 Romani or Sinti ancestry marry my daughter (probably not), but I would not have an issue with a person 1/4 Jenisch or 1/4 "Travelling folk of non-ethnic background" heritage.


See what Todesengel said about appearance and pictures.

If we are talking about people of full heritage, I think we can make a better judgment. All these abovementioned are not phenotypically alien. I would probably not let them marry my daughter at that purity of their heritage either, anyway, because they will have been brought up with gypsy customs. Otherwise, I tend to find them not as alien as f.ex. Sinti - if the Celtic/Germanic link proves to be true, they are less removed from us than other travelling folk are.


I am not a Nationalsocialist so I don't care what the NSDAP supported. They also allowed 1/4 Jews to be German, so I disagree with them.

It doesn't matter whether you are NS or not, what matters is the substantive value of the statement, and the absurdity of your flawed conclusion derived from your own statement.


I've achieved enough at my age thanks very much. I am politically affiliated, and before that I was at protests, while your co-staffers mocked the "futility" of being there or in politics nowadays because "it does nothing".

That is something you'll have to take up with them, not me. I'm not even saying that I have been more politically active than you have been - I'm just pointing out that it is a little strong to discredit as someone who has been an Activist for over ten years as "having no interest in preservation". ;)


Thanks for the ad hominems and insults anyhow, I see you couldn't miss doing your number against me once again.

What, the age question. No, I am not using it against you - because I hate it being used against me. There are some cases where it is true though. I am not saying that someone who's been doing something for 3 years must be worse than he who's been doing it for 10 years --- all I am pointing out is the fact that it is physically impossible that you have done more for "the cause" than he has.

For example, it'd be absurd to assume for you that mid-20s Mark Collett has done more for Nationalism than long-time BNP leader John Tyndall who was active for several decades. That is no discredit dealt to Collett, it is stating a mere fact. ;)

Anfang
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 01:07 AM
There is the danger in researching your heritage, you never know what you will find. Somethings are not so obvious when looking at yourself in the mirror. Those who believe in the one-drop purity rule would be advise to never take up genealogy least they might suffer an identity crisis. You never know if you might be part Gypsy yourself or Jew or god forbid some Mongolid Slav.


Not really. You are in America. That may be a reality to some who lost rack of their line, in the USA. Go to a farm area in the Jutland or Tromso in Norway,
and Everybody is homogenous . Hamburg area, Magdeburg, area ,West Sachsen , Luebeck...many otheres and you will be hard pressed to find outsider blood.
It is a sin what is happening in Sweden right now, 25 years ago there were no nonwhites there to speak of.

Bärin
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 01:07 AM
I am not pointing any fingers. It was more directed at Bärin, really, who boasts that at age 18 she has done so extremely much for Germanic Preservation: I am sure she devotes every free minute to it and has done so for the past X years, but it is just not physically possible that she has done more than he has, since he has been a major activist for 12+ years - so unless she started leafletting when she was 6... you've not seen Fortis in action, and the reputation he got himself at campus in campaigning so vigorously. ;)
I wasn't boasting about anything really, I mentioned nothing of my activity until you brought it up to insult me. I wasn't even talking to you in this thread in the first place. Leave me in peace, being a moderator doesn't give you the right to harass me. And please stop giving me reputation points too.

Sigurd
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 01:13 AM
And please stop giving me reputation points too.

It was an attempt to keep the whole discussion out of what we have now. When I was finished, the new thread had just been posted, making the rep comments obsolete, really.

But Hel, you have to be the first person since the inception of the board who is complaining about receiving over 60 points of positive reputation.

People complaining about positive reputation is almost like someone asking the forum owner to ban himself off his own board (actually happened to Thorburn a few years back). Mission accomplished. :victory

If you want to, I can balance these points of positive reputation with negative reputation in turn, ya know. I just thought you wouldn't object to being rewarded in the course of being lectured. Was being nice, ya know. :P

Loki
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 01:13 AM
I think we all need to get some sleep, tomorrow is another day. ;)

Bärin
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 01:16 AM
That is something you'll have to take up with them, not me. I'm not even saying that I have been more politically active than you have been - I'm just pointing out that it is a little strong to discredit as someone who has been an Activist for over ten years as "having no interest in preservation". ;)
Do you know what preservation is? Political activity is important, but the most important thing for preservation is to have Germanic offspring. As far as children are concerned, I am doing my duty to the folk earlier than I am even supposed to. I have an unborn child in my womb, whose importance is bigger than any political activity possible. Without offspring, there is no new generations. Sure you can leave that responsibility to someone else and sweep it under the carpet, but you can't take the credit and call it yours. And if you are significantly mixed with aliens yet insist in calling yourself Germanic and mingling with the native, population, than any political activity, any activism, won't erase the fact that you're a mongrel and you contaminate the blood of the folk, therefore you hurt Germanic preservation. In other words, two steps forward, but two steps back too.

Anfang
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 01:17 AM
I wouldnt, because I can tolerate my own doing something annoying.And the fact that a purebred is here even if whining is better than someone of mixed heritage and mixed agenda raising the level of discourse.I am here first and foremost for the preservation of my people.The ones here of full Germanic blood should be able to get away with a little more than those of mixed heritage.


And if it was a male it would not be called "whining". I would take the Word of one 18 year old Germanic girl over that word of 20 intellectual jews with PHDs. Call me crazy.

Barin is an 18 year old, and 18 year olds are well, young, and the young are often brash.

"I am here first and foremost for the preservation of my people.The ones here of full Germanic blood should be able to get away with a little more than those of mixed heritage."


Agreed

Bärin
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 01:20 AM
It was an attempt to keep the whole discussion out of what we have now. When I was finished, the new thread had just been posted, making the rep comments obsolete, really.

But Hel, you have to be the first person since the inception of the board who is complaining about receiving over 60 points of positive reputation.

People complaining about positive reputation is almost like someone asking the forum owner to ban himself off his own board (actually happened to Thorburn a few years back). Mission accomplished. :victory

If you want to, I can balance these points of positive reputation with negative reputation in turn, ya know. I just thought you wouldn't object to being rewarded in the course of being lectured. Was being nice, ya know. :P
No, you miss the point. I don't give a shit about my quantity of reputation, big or small, the point is I don't want to be harassed privately with your comments, thanks very much. Since you're a moderator it doesn't allow me to put you on ignore, so if you really are a gentleman you shall stop harassing me voluntarily.

Anfang
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 01:23 AM
It was an attempt to keep the whole discussion out of what we have now. When I was finished, the new thread had just been posted, making the rep comments obsolete, really.

But Hel, you have to be the first person since the inception of the board who is complaining about receiving over 60 points of positive reputation.

People complaining about positive reputation is almost like someone asking the forum owner to ban himself off his own board (actually happened to Thorburn a few years back). Mission accomplished. :victory

If you want to, I can balance these points of positive reputation with negative reputation in turn, ya know. I just thought you wouldn't object to being rewarded in the course of being lectured. Was being nice, ya know. :P


All being said Barin, respectfully, I think you might want to be just a little more brutal with your words. You can say the same thing with less vitrol.


Ooops. I meant *less* brutal!

Sigurd
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 01:25 AM
the point is I don't want to be harassed privately with your comments, thanks very much.

Explaining a factual matter when the thread discussing it has been closed by another Staff matter via reputation I believe is hardly harassment. Five of the Six reputation comments explained Fortis' situation and the general situation of different types of gypsies. The sixth (fourth in chronological order) was not negative in saying. "Hey' I've lectured you, but at least you got yourself 44 reputation points for it". Hardly harassment, I believe. ;)

In fact it was well-meant and I wished to keep the matter off the board and explain it to you in private. But as usual, no matter how it is done, you aren't happy.

Or in Gandalf's words: "I am not trying to hurt you, Bilbo, I am trying to help you." :)

Bärin
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 01:28 AM
I wouldnt, because I can tolerate my own doing something annoying.And the fact that a purebred is here even if whining is better than someone of mixed heritage and mixed agenda raising the level of discourse.I am here first and foremost for the preservation of my people.The ones here of full Germanic blood should be able to get away with a little more than those of mixed heritage.
That's exactly why this forum is falling apart, it's becoming more and more like offline mainstream society, where people prefer "educated" immigrants to their own kind. The concept of folk community is dying. I'm sooner banned from here than a 1/4 Romani guy, because I "whine", because I express my unhappiness with the multiculturalism that infects this forum and anti-Germanic agendas which are even present on staff. Threads where the one-drop rule or interracial relationships are discussed get closed, the political correctness level is rising, because the mods are afraid of hurting the precious little egos of their friends or countrymen.

Anfang
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 01:30 AM
It was an attempt to keep the whole discussion out of what we have now. When I was finished, the new thread had just been posted, making the rep comments obsolete, really.

But Hel, you have to be the first person since the inception of the board who is complaining about receiving over 60 points of positive reputation.

People complaining about positive reputation is almost like someone asking the forum owner to ban himself off his own board (actually happened to Thorburn a few years back). Mission accomplished. :victory

If you want to, I can balance these points of positive reputation with negative reputation in turn, ya know. I just thought you wouldn't object to being rewarded in the course of being lectured. Was being nice, ya know. :P


Sigurd, you are such an Austrian/Bavarian, du bist seuss wie marzipan, haha.

Volksdeutscher
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 01:32 AM
Sorry to distract you all from the entertaining * soap opera, but I think it would be interesting if someone addressed the original topic of this thread. Just an idea. ;)

* and popular:

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 23 (17 members and 6 guests)

:D

Sigurd
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 01:35 AM
If you want to help me, help me by petitioning to kick out the xenophiles from the staff. But you won't, because you're infected with the disease called political correctness too.

Well... since every "Help & Suggestions" thread you participate in eventually turns into you asking for the demotion of one or the other member of Staff:


34. The Þeudanaz is the final solicitor of the rules and their enforcement, as well as the sole composer of and judge over Staff. The Þeudanaz reserves the right to discipline Members and Staff at its own will for any reason within and beyond the scope of Skadi Forum (http://forum.skadi.net/). These decisions are not debatable. If you have an issue with a member of Staff, please take it up with Forseti, as I stretched before several times. I am in no position to denounce my fellow Staff and create possible disharmony. If you feel that a certain member of Staff should be demoted, he will fairly hear your case, as long as it is not "backed by threats" and argued well and rationally, and will explain in return why he might wish to keep a certain member of Staff or not. :)


Sorry to distract you all from the entertaining * soap opera, but I think it would be interesting if someone addressed the original topic of this thread. Just an idea. ;)Actually a very good call. :)

Anfang
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 01:42 AM
If you want to help me, help me by petitioning to kick out the xenophiles from the staff. But you won't, because you're infected with the disease called political correctness too.

I do not think so, barin. I think that sigurd's view is more "social constructionist" than yours is. I think if we can all talk about this calmly, we may be able to get something out of this thread.

I have already given my opinion, I agree with Todesangel and I am willing to say *why* I have this opinion.

Reich des Waldes
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 01:47 AM
My father has/had a German mother and an Irish father and my mother's parents were/are pure Germans who immigrated after WWII. I honestly don't really associate with my celtic background, as I tell anyone who asks what my ancestry is that I am German. I go to the university to study the German language, history, and culture. I hope to achieve a PhD in Germanic Studies from a fairly prestigious Universität and then do research and teach on German linguistic philology and German history. I even study and play German music, having taken Organ (which in my mind is a very germanic instrument) lessons for a few years now. Currently I am composing an orchestral album on the ideas of the development of the German identity/history from the fall of the Roman Empire to 1871. I wish to move to Thüringen or Bayern (where my mom's family is from) and someday find a German woman to have a family with.

Now despite all of this, I am still a quarter Irish. Does this make me a German poser? Am I just some guy that wants to be German? I am not sure what else I can do to further my Germanic heritage. With of course the exception of armed insurrection against the current German government or donning maille armor and painting a huge black cross on my shield and riding off into the baltic to crusade :P.

To be a German is the noblest thing to me. It is my inheritable title in my mind, to live and die as a German. It is higher than any title I could ever receive with the exception of Reichsritter. Infact, that is the only thing I wish to have on my grave. Alexander der Deutsche

Bärin
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 02:04 AM
I do not think so, barin. I think that sigurd's view is more "social constructionist" than yours is. I think if we can all talk about this calmly, we may be able to get something out of this thread.

I have already given my opinion, I agree with Todesangel and I am willing to say *why* I have this opinion.
Social constructionism is an enemy of our race and folk. And no, we will get nothing out of threads like these, it all turns out the same way. Someone asks a question, the staff avoid it and address offtopic matters instead. Here it's clear Fortis is privileged because he's friend of Sigurd's.

Rainraven
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 02:25 AM
I think by making Germanic Preservation an elitist activity then we do little to help the cause. If someone identifies with the 3/4 of their ethnicity that is germanic and they take an active part in preserving this side of their ethnicity then it should be encouraged. As far as the rule goes I think it has more to do with the behaviour of the person than the exact percentage of their germanic ancestry. It means that there will be less leiniency for people that are partly non-germanic. But this is just my take on it :)

Sigurd
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 02:27 AM
Social constructionism is an enemy of our race and folk.

That is up to debate. In fact it would be an excellent idea to discuss the pro's and contra's of Social constructionism in a thread of its own. You are very welcome, in fact encouraged to open a thread of that description, subject of course to using the search function first to see if a thread pertaining to this highly interesting topic already exists. :)


Someone asks a question, the staff avoid it and address offtopic matters instead.

You forget an important link of causation here. The route is in truth: Someone asks a question > someone else uses it to launch an ad-hominem attack at a member, a member of Staff addresses the thread, but pays some attention to the very personal claims made > the person launching the ad hominem, or someone else takes offense > the thread goes off-topic.

The member that is at fault for taking the thread off-topic is as such the one that launches an ad-hominem. In this case, I am afraid to say, this was yourself; though a case can be made that Fortis provoked your post by feeling personally attacked, and yours was a logical reaction to it, no less logical than my reaction to your very personal attacks against Fortis' which I felt I needed to treatise in passing. ;)

You also have a knack of then continuing in the same vein, as I yet have to see one of these threads without you bringing up the question of Oswiu's girlfriend's ethnic identity. Since I have explained my position on this numerous times, I will however not dwell on this, only point out that this appears to be one of the most consistent features of these threads.

I wish that I could safely relieve you of all blame for the course this topic has taken, but that would be denying a material part of it.


Here it's clear Fortis is privileged because he's friend of Sigurd's.

He is not privileged and has never been. I only took the liberty to explain his situation, but did not make a qualitative statement. He may well be a friend of mine, but he has felt my wrath oft enough, and I have refused to reverse some of his warnings/infractions in the past, if I felt that the grounds were not satisfactory - regardless of his being a proven friend of mine.

Understand that discussing whether a member's account should be continued or terminated is usually held amongst Staff away from public view accordingly. This is to protect all parties involved from public humiliation, only the decisions reached may reach the public in one way or another at a time opportunous, if it was decided that action needed to be taken.

As you will also have noticed, the thread asking about racial purity was not closed by Oswiu indefinitely, instead he closed it for Staff consultation, leaving the option open to remove ad-hominems of parties involved, both original and in retaliation, to then re-open it without the posts which were reminiscent of a soap opera.

Maelstrom
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 02:43 AM
You fail to see the bigger picture, though. This isn't about you only, it's about members with significant non-White ancestry.


Aha! So it's not about Germanic preservation at all? I knew it! :D It's just another big back-patting "I'm white too" exercise. Let's let some Slavs in eh?


I thought I was joining a racialist and preservationist forum, that's what's it to me. It's important for me to know whether this forum upholds its standards, or if it's turned into just another multiracial, politically correct, mainstream forum.

Like standards of White Nationalism?


Personally, as the rules currently are (I have no qualms with them whatsoever) I would not be offended if I was banned due to my significant Celtic ancestry. Mixed is still mixed, regardless of what anyone says.

Not every Germanic is a good sort and I for one do have (predominantly) non-Germanic friends who I would value over these people.

Just like on Stormfront and elsewhere, this forum has degenerated due to a few members. "I'm ueber-Germanic", "I'm sooo HardxCore Germanicer than you!!". Although veiled with the slightest amount of intelligence and "facts", these cries can be heard from afar.

My advice is for everyone to quit their whinging. In all honesty I don't care if you're a Negress, Todesengel it won't make me like you more or less. It doesn't at all affect my day to day life, how I live a Germanic lifestyle or the values I hold dear to my heart.


-Maelstrom

Hauke Haien
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 02:47 AM
I am not interested in showing anyone here my stamp collection and therefore I couldn't care less about the non-Germanic heritage and partners of other members as long as they keep the discussion topical. I am getting a bit annoyed, though, when people use this forum as an outlet for their identity crisis and try to push through world views that are obviously designed to make them Germanic while fully acknowledging their petty reasons at the same time and even introducing personal circumstances as pseudo-arguments. I have no problem with rational arguments that can be challenged and refuted, but I am not interested in what any particular point of view means for the status of individuals here and whether it makes puppies cry.

In conclusion, I am not particularly opposed to members with problematic backgrounds, but they should be purged as soon as their contributions reflect that background.

Grimm
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 03:11 AM
As for anything else and his views to support the far right in Israel to keep the leftist zionist from staying in power. Since the NSDAP also supported such measures, I suppose they were also philosemites?! ;)

Not to get off topic, but weren't the Nazis actually fervent Zionists until they realized they didn't have the ways and means to export all the Jews to Palestine? After that realization they came up with the final solution, no? As far as I knew they had no other views about Israel at all. Or are you speaking of the more modern elements of NSDAP rather than those of the Third Reich?

Anfang
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 03:21 AM
Social constructionism is an enemy of our race and folk. And no, we will get nothing out of threads like these, it all turns out the same way. Someone asks a question, the staff avoid it and address offtopic matters instead. Here it's clear Fortis is privileged because he's friend of Sigurd's.

I think that I am making it clear that I do not agree with Sigurd.

I really like What Reich des Waldes said just now, and also feel very similarly.
I have had the Good fortune to live in Germany and travel there often and this makes me feel that I have gotten a little more "Germany" than if I had spent my entire life only here. I intend on someday moving to my North Sea
area as he intends to move to the area where his ancestors come from.
By my saying that I feel that I have more "Germany", it would appear that
I am almost supporting Sigurd's argument, but I am not.

I do not believe that Heinrich Heine was German nor that Disraeli was English.

Language and aculturazation are important but Race is even more important.
I agree that social construction should not define our Volk anymore than social construction should define the family or gender.

I said that my grandma was sometimes very simple and laconic and sometimes it is the simple things that are right, the things one feels
in their gut from the begining.

I remember that as a kid, I always liked the color dark green for example. Boys like blue, and I was no exeption, but I always liked green. The first timeI met the woman who was to become my wife, she also liked dark green, in fact her purse thas a big Germanic looking thing made of leather and big buckles,
it looked like an Alammani tasche from the 7th century. Well, her entire line on both sides is Alammani. At that time i did not know what an Alammanic tasche *was* , but (excuse the "caveman talk") my though was "She is beautiful, has ice blue eyes and is carrying a thing which is also of me(the bag) so she must be connected to me". Like I said, call me crazy.
The same thing happened the first time I ever heard a dudlesack. My celtic ancestry is deep in my blood too, and the dudlesack is also a germanic ancient instrument, but I think the celts have the dudllesack more in their racial memories. When I first heard a dudlesack i was 8 years old, and I remember my eyes growing wide and feelin goosebumps, my very body reacted, and something told me, "I have heard this before I have heard this before!" Where my North Spanish family is from everybody seems to play the doodlesack, even the women.I am pretty sure that the reactions I experienced were racial reactions and not cultural ones.
Also,and I think I might be put in the 'Anfang is surely crazy' category here for saying this, I notice a big difference in the smell. Yes smell.
we are animals too, very developed animals, but still animals.
I have dated a jewish (sorry) girl, an irish girl, an italian and a spanish girl.
To me none smelled like a Germanic girl. German smells "right". I think women may understand this better than men here, or maybe I am wrong in assuming that.
My ex used to say 'you have to be a great animal before you can be a great human being. " I can only say that this is true for me, and that means that there must be at least something central and important to race .

There are things that are not told through spoken language but must be experienced and since this is an electronic forum, and we are not in front of one another's eyes, putting the additional fiter of 1/4 Romani is unfair and confusing to the community.
*Especially* when that person makes it clear that they do not have loyalty
by saying as he did before on another thread that German security officers should go to prison for following orders of the German Government.

I feel the same way about posting articles from Jews working for the "Moscow Newsweek", on this forum. At the very least include a caveat expalining the sourse.

I think that Celtic is pretty Close to germanic and as long as a celt Is willing to work towards acquiering the traits of the Germanics and have loyalty to the volk, then it may be Ok to Integrate, it is up to the individual germanic community to decide this. Latins have done this in Southern germany, no one will convince me otherwise. But latins and celts are both Indo European.


Not to get off topic, but weren't the Nazis actually fervent Zionists until they realized they didn't have the ways and means to export all the Jews to Palestine? After that realization they came up with the final solution, no? As far as I knew they had no other views about Israel at all. Or are you speaking of the more modern elements of NSDAP rather than those of the Third Reich?

No, NS were not fervent zionists, are you kidding?
They wanted the jews out and considered sending them to Madagascar.

Ulf
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 03:28 AM
What a waste of bandwidth and time.

Stop feeding the trolls.

Anfang
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 03:29 AM
I think by making Germanic Preservation an elitist activity then we do little to help the cause. If someone identifies with the 3/4 of their ethnicity that is germanic and they take an active part in preserving this side of their ethnicity then it should be encouraged. As far as the rule goes I think it has more to do with the behaviour of the person than the exact percentage of their germanic ancestry. It means that there will be less leiniency for people that are partly non-germanic. But this is just my take on it :)

We have to be specific as to who that "someone" *IS*.

Gypsy= no.

Rainraven
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 03:37 AM
We have to be specific as to who that "someone" *IS*.

Gypsy= no.

Just because he didn't agree with you out in this thread (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=110445&highlight=german+intelligence+agents) doesn't mean you have to try to get him banned ;)

Nachtengel
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 03:42 AM
Aha! So it's not about Germanic preservation at all? I knew it! :D It's just another big back-patting "I'm white too" exercise. Let's let some Slavs in eh?



Like standards of White Nationalism?


Personally, as the rules currently are (I have no qualms with them whatsoever) I would not be offended if I was banned due to my significant Celtic ancestry. Mixed is still mixed, regardless of what anyone says.

Not every Germanic is a good sort and I for one do have (predominantly) non-Germanic friends who I would value over these people.

Just like on Stormfront and elsewhere, this forum has degenerated due to a few members. "I'm ueber-Germanic", "I'm sooo HardxCore Germanicer than you!!". Although veiled with the slightest amount of intelligence and "facts", these cries can be heard from afar.

My advice is for everyone to quit their whinging. In all honesty I don't care if you're a Negress, Todesengel it won't make me like you more or less. It doesn't at all affect my day to day life, how I live a Germanic lifestyle or the values I hold dear to my heart.


-Maelstrom
While it can be argued that non-Germanic white ancestry can be acceptable, the same can't be said about non-white ancestry. And please, drop the stupid ad hominems. If you have a problem with online discrimination and segregation, take it up with the owner of this forum. I'm not the one who put up these rules or who blocked non-Germanic IPs. Let's get real, shall we.


Just because he didn't agree with you out in this thread (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=110445&highlight=german+intelligence+agents) doesn't mean you have to try to get him banned ;)
What makes you think he'd accept other Gypsy members? Why must it always be personal to some of you here? It's not, it's about the forum staying true to its mission.

Grimm
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 03:46 AM
No, NS were not fervent zionists, are you kidding?
They wanted the jews out and considered sending them to Madagascar


Eichmann was put in charge of coordinating the exportation of Jews to Palestine. He was working on it when Heydrich and co. came up with the final solution. At that point Eichmann was already in contact with several prominent Jewish Zionists. Google "Eichmann Zionist", and you'll find a lot of websites that mention it.

Nachtengel
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 03:50 AM
I am not interested in showing anyone here my stamp collection and therefore I couldn't care less about the non-Germanic heritage and partners of other members as long as they keep the discussion topical. I am getting a bit annoyed, though, when people use this forum as an outlet for their identity crisis and try to push through world views that are obviously designed to make them Germanic while fully acknowledging their petty reasons at the same time and even introducing personal circumstances as pseudo-arguments. I have no problem with rational arguments that can be challenged and refuted, but I am not interested in what any particular point of view means for the status of individuals here and whether it makes puppies cry.

In conclusion, I am not particularly opposed to members with problematic backgrounds, but they should be purged as soon as their contributions reflect that background.
I'm afraid this is exactly what's happening, Hauke. Some people are becoming more open to multiculturalism, political correctness and even multiracialism, because their friends are involved. When these new members from Human Biodiversity with some black or Indian ancestry were banned, nobody made a fuss. But now we have a regular member who suddenly reveals he is 1/4 Gypsy, which is not a negligible foreign admixture either. But when his place here is questioned, many jump to his defense. Why? Because he's a regular, because he has friends on staff and elsewhere. It seems the rule around here is, as long as you are nice and have friends in some established places, you get the thumbs up. I don't really think if a new member introduced himself and said he is 1/4 Romani he would last very long. It's hypocritical, there should be one rule for all, at least for those with non-White ancestry.

Rainraven
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 03:51 AM
Why must it always be personal to some of you here? It's not, it's about the forum staying true to its mission.

I believe it was you that made it personal when you included in the opening post of the thread:
I am asking because we have a 1/4 Romani member here and to be honest, the thought makes me kind of uncomfortable, as I am a racialist.

Personally, I think it is fine to discuss the rules but think it was unnecessary for you to make personal examples in a public thread.

Nachtengel
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 03:56 AM
I believe it was you that made it personal when you included in the opening post of the thread:

Personally, I think it is fine to discuss the rules but think it was unnecessary for you to make personal examples in a public thread.
You failed to see the point. I don't have a problem with Fortis for his personality or for what he said in whatever thread. It's not some silly little teenage matter of revenge at work here. That's what I meant by personal. English isn't my native language, if there's another word for that, then I'll use another word. It's about a matter of principle. I have friends from other countries who are not Germanic. But I'd be the first to advise them against joining this forum. Not because I don't like them. Because they don't belong here, simple as that. And being 1/4 Romani, I think he doesn't belong here either. He wasn't the only one I gave as an example, by the way. There is another member who is part Romani.

Grimm
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 03:58 AM
I believe it was you that made it personal when you included in the opening post of the thread:

Personally, I think it is fine to discuss the rules but think it was unnecessary for you to make personal examples in a public thread.

I don't see that as personal, per se. She didn't mention his name. She had to give specifics to get her point across.

Anfang
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 03:59 AM
Eichmann was put in charge of coordinating the exportation of Jews to Palestine. He was working on it when Heydrich and co. came up with the final solution. At that point Eichmann was already in contact with several prominent Jewish Zionists. Google "Eichmann Zionist", and you'll find a lot of websites that mention it.


Please, this is completely off topic... Let us try to make something constructive of this . (I admonish veryone, including myself ) !

Teutonic
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 04:03 AM
I believe it was you that made it personal when you included in the opening post of the thread:

Personally, I think it is fine to discuss the rules but think it was unnecessary for you to make personal examples in a public thread.



The way in which he acted towards another member in here a Women, was I think the real reason he was called out or put on the spot. I dont care what she said or what she did to him, his actions towards her were uncalled for and childish beyond comparison.He showed his non Germanic Heritage by his actions towards her.Why should any of us tolerate that garbage? let alone from one that is not pure Germanic?

Someone made the comment that people have turned this into a forum to a brag about who has the most Germanic ancestory or who is überGermanic? My response to that is if everyone was pure in here, no one would have to.I brag about my German blood when I am in the States, mostly because im tired about hearing how good the Irish are.. But when I am in Germany I am around my kin, not only am I at peace, but I feel no need to brag.I think its only in the face of adversity that Germans and Germanics feel the need to brag about their blood.

Grimm
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 04:06 AM
Please, this is completely off topic... Let us try to make something constructive of this . (I admonish veryone, including myself ) !

Sure thing...As soon as you admit you were wrong.:D

Rainraven
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 04:12 AM
Todesengel - I think your interpretation of the rule is odd.


(b). The account of Members that are judged to be, even if only partly ethnically non-Germanic, may be unappealably terminated if their contributions, either individually or in combination with the contributions of other such members, either by force of their numbers or their impact, are increasingly considered a risk to the integrity of or a burden to Skadi Forum, its Mission Statement, or its Germanic community.

It does not mention banning because of non-germanic ancestry. If he behaved in a way that was anti-germanic that would obviously result in a ban. But while he is working positively towards germanic preservation it would seem counter productive to isolate him from this community.

Nachtengel
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 04:16 AM
The way in which he acted towards another member in here a Women, was I think the real reason he was called out or put on the spot. I dont care what she said or what she did to him, his actions towards her were uncalled for and childish beyond comparison.He showed his non Germanic Heritage by his actions towards her.Why should any of us tolerate that garbage? let alone from one that is not pure Germanic?
Yes, I wonder too. It's not just the foreign ancestry, it's also the behaviour. I was surprised to see that after a Germanic woman was subjected to such immoral and vulgar behaviour, the thread was closed and she was reprimanded and had her opinions insulted by a moderator, "drivel", etc. If anyone needed to be publicly humiliated, it was her offender but he got away with an edit. I'm saddened to say it, but this community is beginning to be less and less a folk community. If so many people prefer educated and nice foreigners to their own kind, then why are they joining a folkish forum?


Someone made the comment that people have turned this into a forum to a brag about who has the most Germanic ancestory or who is überGermanic? My response to that is if everyone was pure in here, no one would have to.I brag about my German blood when I am in the States, mostly because im tired about hearing how good the Irish are.. But when I am in Germany I am around my kin, not only am I at peace, but I feel no need to brag.I think its only in the face of adversity that Germans and Germanics feel the need to brag about their blood.
I always brag about my son. I love to brag about him, he's my descendant, the best part of me. The same way I love to brag about my ancestors. There is nothing wrong with bragging. There is nothing wrong with pride and feeling fortunate.

Todesengel - I think your interpretation of the rule is odd.



It does not mention banning because of non-germanic ancestry.
No? Then how about rule 1 (a).?


1 (a). This is a board for people of Germanic heritage.

PS. If people with non-Germanic ancestry are allowed here, then why have all these members been banned for being non-Germanic and an IP block has been put on non-Germanic countries?


If he behaved in a way that was anti-germanic that would obviously result in a ban. But while he is working positively towards germanic preservation it would seem counter productive to isolate him from this community.
Look at what Teutonic and I have been discussing. Do you count insulting Germaic women with the middle finger as working positively towards Germanic preservation?

Hauke Haien
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 04:21 AM
It's hypocritical, there should be one rule for all, at least for those with non-White ancestry.

(b). The account of Members that are judged to be, even if only partly ethnically non-Germanic, may be unappealably terminated if their contributions, either individually or in combination with the contributions of other such members, either by force of their numbers or their impact, are increasingly considered a risk to the integrity of or a burden to Skadi Forum, its Mission Statement, or its Germanic community.
There is no mention of "White" or "European", but I see the words "judged" and "considered" and we are not those who consider this. I certainly have opinions about how I would judge certain members under these criteria, and I am not inclined to share.

I think the best way to go about this would be to send complaints to staff about specific members or to report relevant posts as damaging contributions (i.e. "burdens") in the sense of rule 1 (b), then wait for the decision.

Rainraven
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 04:23 AM
Look at what Teutonic and I have been discussing. Do you count insulting Germaic women with the middle finger as working positively towards Germanic preservation?

Do you seriously believe that a picture of some bloke pulling the fingers is counter productive towards Germanic preservation? What, is it going to cause mental trauma? Will she not be able to have children now? No, I didn't think so. Just get over it.

Anfang
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 04:23 AM
The way in which he acted towards another member in here a Women, was I think the real reason he was called out or put on the spot. I dont care what she said or what she did to him, his actions towards her were uncalled for and childish beyond comparison.He showed his non Germanic Heritage by his actions towards her.Why should any of us tolerate that garbage? let alone from one that is not pure Germanic?

Someone made the comment that people have turned this into a forum to a brag about who has the most Germanic ancestory or who is überGermanic? My response to that is if everyone was pure in here, no one would have to.I brag about my German blood when I am in the States, mostly because im tired about hearing how good the Irish are.. But when I am in Germany I am around my kin, not only am I at peace, but I feel no need to brag.I think its only in the face of adversity that Germans and Germanics feel the need to brag about their blood.

Honestly! Go to a jewish orthodox forum and write about how you are 'also christian"!
Fist they will laugh at you, and then they will tell you to get lost.
Some people here think we are writing from the position of being powerful and 'safe' . but we are not safe *because* germanic integrity is considered a form of racism. But yet everybody else's right to self segregate is celebrated.

Go to the Chinese and tell them you are 75% chinese and 25% germanic. tell them you want to be a member of the communist party and become a high ranking member someday. Please find me 1 western mix blood in a position of power of any sort in China. Go to Saudi Arabia, Tell them you are a white christian but you want "in" to their society.

Should I make us some coffee here?

Volksdeutscher
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 04:28 AM
Do you seriously believe that a picture of some bloke pulling the fingers is counter productive towards Germanic preservation? What, is it going to cause mental trauma? Will she not be able to have children now? No, I didn't think so. Just get over it.
Nothing of what a member on this forum says could cause a mental trauma or stop a woman from having children, so your examples are silly. Then no one would ever have to be banned. ;)

How many of you lived among Gypsies? Tzigani, as they're called over here. What he did is typical Tzigani behaviour. They have a lovely vocabulary too. :D

Anyway I was serious about inviting a half Gypsy acquaintance. Expect him soon, just for the entertainment that comes with it. Let's see how many of you jump to his welcome and his defense. Unfortunately there aren't blacks here, so I can't invite any people with black admixture. It would be entertaining to test the level of foreign tolerance on this forum. :D

Ulf
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 04:31 AM
It's so awesome to come to this high brow forum and see such childish drama, glad we can all conduct ourselves as adults. I'm wondering if it's possible to go more than a week without a thread like this. But I doubt it...

If you don't like someones post(s) there's this really neat feature called ignore. It's on top of every post. Click it. I'm going to.

This whole thread is counter-productive.

Anfang
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 04:32 AM
Todesengel - I think your interpretation of the rule is odd.



It does not mention banning because of non-germanic ancestry. If he behaved in a way that was anti-germanic that would obviously result in a ban. But while he is working positively towards germanic preservation it would seem counter productive to isolate him from this community.


In my opinion if you read all his posts one might make a case for the antigermanic sentiments intimated by his writing.

Oswiu
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 04:36 AM
Fortis in Arduis has been warned for his offensive reaction. For a further breach of the rules, he revealed a full infraction. Case closed on that one. (Although a point could be made that certain gestures are rather more passe in England than elsewhere, though English members should realise they are present in a panGermanic sphere and act accordingly.)

And I know Tsygane, from having lived in Russia several years. They are almost full Indians, and look it. Here in the west, Gypsy covers a wider spectrum of groups, some of which are almost wholly European. You can afford to deal with it on a case by case basis. Fortis is one quarter Gitano, which is a bit different. More importantly he is a respected and commited activist for our cause.

Nachtengel
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 04:36 AM
Do you seriously believe that a picture of some bloke pulling the fingers is counter productive towards Germanic preservation?
The context should be taken into consideration here. He was insulting a Germanic woman because she was reluctant to accept foreign blood. But yes, I do.


What, is it going to cause mental trauma? Will she not be able to have children now? No, I didn't think so. Just get over it.
Neither of these things. It's an Internet forum. No one will have traumas because of it. Like Volksdeutscher said, these are silly comparisons.


It's so awesome to come to this high brow forum and see such childish drama, glad we can all conduct ourselves as adults. I'm wondering if it's possible to go more than a week without a thread like this. But I doubt it...

If you don't like someones post(s) there's this really neat feature called ignore. It's on top of every post. Click it. I'm going to.

This whole thread is counter-productive.
Oh boy, you got to love these "I don't really care about this thread, but first I'm going to care enough to make a post in it, and then I'm going to start not caring" posts. Same as those "don't feed the trolls, now excuse me while I make 100 replies to this thread where the trolls supposedly are" posts.

Hauke Haien
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 04:40 AM
Do you seriously believe that a picture of some bloke pulling the fingers is counter productive towards Germanic preservation?
Signs and messages change their meaning depending on who is employing them. It is a reason why we give a short explanation of who we are on the left side next to our posts.

Volksdeutscher
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 04:42 AM
More importantly he is a respected and commited activist for our cause.
Ah, ah, steady there pal. Don't speak for more persons than yourself. Not for mine cause he's not.

Maelstrom
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 04:50 AM
Ah, ah, steady there pal. Don't speak for more persons than yourself. Not for mine cause he's not.

Errrm... Do you have some other cause here that is not Germanic Preservation? Because that's what the rest of us are here for, including Fortis.

Nachtengel
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 04:52 AM
Errrm... Do you have some other cause here that is not Germanic Preservation? Because that's what the rest of us are here for, including Fortis.
With or without 1/4 Romani ancestry included? Or does it come as a bonus for Germanic preservationists, to spice up the heritage or something?

Volksdeutscher
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 04:56 AM
Errrm... Do you have some other cause here that is not Germanic Preservation? Because that's what the rest of us are here for, including Fortis.
No, no, how could I have been so blind. You are right. People with Gypsy ancestry can be Germanic preservationists too. How racist and xenophobic of me to think otherwise.

I am going to offer my apologies to the 1/4 Gypsy here. I am utterly, terribly sorry for discriminating. Now I am going to go read a book on how my ancestors oppressed Gypsies and go to Church to beg forgiveness for my guilt. I hope there is still hope for me, to return on the only, truest path to Germanic preservation.

Morning Wolf
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 05:09 AM
Good grief, lets all try to work together politely. I think that it would be rather difficult to only allow full blooded Germanics on here, most Germanic Americans would probably be disqualified.

What counts to me is their overall character and the actions that arise from that character. Genes are important, but what about their soul, and their free will? If you believe in such things, it could be possible that a genetically partial German could either be a (full) German soul reincarnated, or be connected mostly or entirely to the Germanic tribal Jungian spirit/superconscious/ancestral memory. While that's a whole other topic that can't be scientifically dealt with, I think that it's very empirically sound to say that some people choose to be more Germanic than what their genes would predispose them to be in their culture, and I think that culture is more important than blood, although blood is also highly relevant. I'm a quarter each of Scottish and Hungarian, but I just know that I'm a predominantly German person.

Furthermore it's already been pointed out that one can't be fully sure of one's ancestry.

Maelstrom
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 05:16 AM
With or without 1/4 Romani ancestry included? Or does it come as a bonus for Germanic preservationists, to spice up the heritage or something?

1/4 Romani ancestry is significant, I'll give you that. However I don't think this should change your impression of him. On this forum I have found him to be informative, knowledgable and friendly whilst upholding the values of Germanic Preservation.

As far as I know he was raised as a Germanic in a Germanic country speaking a Germanic language and is of mostly Germanic descent. He didn't know of his Romani ancestry until recently, though I'm sure this hasn't made him falter in his convictions whatsoever. That is true Germanic spirit.


No, no, how could I have been so blind. You are right. People with Gypsy ancestry can be Germanic preservationists too. How racist and xenophobic of me to think otherwise.

I am going to offer my apologies to the 1/4 Gypsy here. I am utterly, terribly sorry for discriminating. Now I am going to go read a book on how my ancestors oppressed Gypsies and go to Church to beg forgiveness for my guilt. I hope there is still hope for me, to return on the only, truest path to Germanic preservation.

Oh no, no, how could we have all been so blind as to what you really are?

Your statement is pathetic and comepletely uninteresting. It takes my thoughts completely out of context.

If you really must know then YES, I believe that people that have non-Germanic ancestry CAN be Germanic Preservationists too. I can't see why this is so difficult for some of you to understand. Something in that German water perhaps?

An example of someone I regard as being a Germanic Preservationist although not fully Germanic himself is a New Zealand Maori politician, Winston Peters.

After such a counter-productive, time-wasting post, laden to the brim with sarcasm, I recommend that you leave this thread for those of us that have something productive to contribute.


Cheerio!
-Maelstrom

Oswiu
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 05:20 AM
It may be worthwhile pointing out, that while there are two sides to be taken in this discussion, a simple glance through the 'who's thanked who' will demonstrate that the moderates have a rough 2/3 majority over the purists (around 15 to 5 as far as I can make out). The 1/3 position of the latter is significant enough for them to be afforded some respect and freedom to air their views (which is provided for in the rules), but the 2/3 weighs the day. I doubt that this particular time in which the matter has come up is particularly relevant in skewing matters, as there is a reasonably large and varied selection of members online.

Anyway, that's enough for me for one night! G'night all! :hutheb

Volksdeutscher
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 05:21 AM
Oh no, no, how could we have all been so blind as to what you really are?

Your statement is pathetic and comepletely uninteresting. It takes my thoughts completely out of context.

If you really must know then YES, I believe that people that have non-Germanic ancestry CAN be Germanic Preservationists too. I can't see why this is so difficult for some of you to understand. Something in that German water perhaps?

An example of someone I regard as being a Germanic Preservationist although not fully Germanic himself is a New Zealand Maori politician, Winston Peters.

After such a counter-productive, time-wasting post, laden to the brim with sarcasm, I recommend that you leave this thread for those of us that have something productive to contribute.


Cheerio!
-Maelstrom
I am so sorry for disturbing you Mr. true Germanic preservationist, now you scared me I am going to shut up. Thank you for making this useful, productive post. :D

Dagna
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 05:24 AM
It may be worthwhile pointing out, that while there are two sides to be taken in this discussion, a simple glance through the 'who's thanked who' will demonstrate that the moderates have a rough 2/3 majority over the purists (around 15 to 5 as far as I can make out). The 1/3 position of the latter is significant enough for them to be afforded some respect and freedom to air their views (which is provided for in the rules), but the 2/3 weighs the day. I doubt that this particular time in which the matter has come up is particularly relevant in skewing matters, as there is a reasonably large and varied selection of members online.

Anyway, that's enough for me for one night! G'night all! :hutheb
Irrelevant. The persons who are friends/acquainted with each other/of the same ethnicity/from the same circle are thanking each other, that is all.

Oswiu
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 05:26 AM
Irrelevant. The persons who are friends/acquainted with each other/of the same ethnicity/from the same circle are thanking each other, that is all.

But I often thank you Dagna! ;)

Nachtengel
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 05:30 AM
It may be worthwhile pointing out, that while there are two sides to be taken in this discussion, a simple glance through the 'who's thanked who' will demonstrate that the moderates have a rough 2/3 majority over the purists (around 15 to 5 as far as I can make out). The 1/3 position of the latter is significant enough for them to be afforded some respect and freedom to air their views (which is provided for in the rules), but the 2/3 weighs the day. I doubt that this particular time in which the matter has come up is particularly relevant in skewing matters, as there is a reasonably large and varied selection of members online.

Anyway, that's enough for me for one night! G'night all! :hutheb
Wow.

Maybe I should show you, Oswiu, the post ("http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=855898#post855898) questioning your position as staff which got many thanks? Or the posts against Sigurd's immaturity which got many thanks? Where was the significance and respect then, eh?

Oswiu
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 05:35 AM
Now come on, you're keeping me from my sleep now!

If you had your way Staff would include about three people, presiding over a membership of a dozen, and the Forum would collapse. Have you any idea how much we have to do behind the scenes, deleting spam, adverts, pornography and so on? Yep, Staff are mortals like everyone else, Irren ist menschlich, but they are at least those who sacrifice their time to give you a forum in the first place. Now get over it!

I shouldn't have to say this, but any further complaints about moderation beyond PMs to the Staff will not be tolerated. If a moderator behaves unjustly, believe me, he will answer for it to the rest of Staff.

Dagna
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 05:35 AM
But I often thank you Dagna! ;)
Indeed, but I am not speaking in general. I believe it is about this thread. There is, on one side, the "moderate" party, Fortis, Sigurd (friends?), Maelstrom, Rainraven (partners?), you (English), most of who are either in friendly terms or predominantly English ethnically (except Sigurd) on the other the "radical" party, Todesengel, Bärin (friends?), Teutonic, Volksdeutscher, Anfang, all German ethnically. It is clear to me as an outsider without an opinion (yet) that it is just friendship or ethnic partiality speaking.

Hauke Haien
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 05:41 AM
It may be worthwhile pointing out, that while there are two sides to be taken in this discussion, a simple glance through the 'who's thanked who' will demonstrate that the moderates have a rough 2/3 majority over the purists (around 15 to 5 as far as I can make out).
Is Skadi Forum a democracy now? I would assume it all depends on what audience the Þeudanaz wants to attract and who he wants to tolerate. I am not sure how helpful this thread is for that purpose.

Schmetterling
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 05:51 AM
It may be worthwhile pointing out, that while there are two sides to be taken in this discussion, a simple glance through the 'who's thanked who' will demonstrate that the moderates have a rough 2/3 majority over the purists (around 15 to 5 as far as I can make out). The 1/3 position of the latter is significant enough for them to be afforded some respect and freedom to air their views (which is provided for in the rules), but the 2/3 weighs the day. I doubt that this particular time in which the matter has come up is particularly relevant in skewing matters, as there is a reasonably large and varied selection of members online.

Anyway, that's enough for me for one night! G'night all! :hutheb
Wait, I haven't thanked anyone yet. ;)

I don't think rejecting 1/4 Romani ancestry makes one a purist though. I mean, it's 1/4, hello. Not 1/16, not 1/32, not 1/128. Maybe it's me, but if you're going to lower the standards to what is Germanic that much, we're in for big, big trouble.

Bärin
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 05:59 AM
It may be worthwhile pointing out, that while there are two sides to be taken in this discussion, a simple glance through the 'who's thanked who' will demonstrate that the moderates have a rough 2/3 majority over the purists (around 15 to 5 as far as I can make out). The 1/3 position of the latter is significant enough for them to be afforded some respect and freedom to air their views (which is provided for in the rules), but the 2/3 weighs the day. I doubt that this particular time in which the matter has come up is particularly relevant in skewing matters, as there is a reasonably large and varied selection of members online.

Anyway, that's enough for me for one night! G'night all! :hutheb
Because the racialist members from here are less and less and the membership reflects the offline PC and xenophilic situation of the masses more and more. Just look at the huge number of thanks the post where this guy said he prefers to talk with educated foreigners than "whining" Germanics got. Not to mention you even had a moderator with a Filipina girlfriend, for fuck's sake. I remember a huge pile of people jumped at me in his defense back then too. Xenophilia is more and more tolerated here. Basing truth on what the masses say never worked, it's a sham.

Anfang
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 06:11 AM
Is Skadi Forum a democracy now? I would assume it all depends on what audience the Þeudanaz wants to attract and who he wants to tolerate. I am not sure how helpful this thread is for that purpose.

I do not think that for the Germanics here it is a question of "democracy", which I hate.
It is a question of Germanics. The moderator falls under the category of groupleader and any groupleader must be Germanic.

I gave the benefit of the doubt, but now I no longer have a doubt. Carl has Corrected me in public for mistakes and also in PM. but I feel Carl is a senior GERMANIC here and always is focused on our people. Therefore I will respect what Carl says even when I may not agree. With a non Germanic, I will feel always.."What is the underlying motive for what he is saying?"

Bärin
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 06:20 AM
I do not think that for the Germanics here it is a question of "democracy", which I hate.
It is a question of Germanics. The moderator falls under the category of groupleader and any groupleader must be Germanic.

I gave the benefit of the doubt, but now I no longer have a doubt. Carl has Corrected me in public for mistakes and also in PM. but I feel Carl is a senior GERMANIC here and always is focused on our people. Therefore I will respect what Carl says even when I may not agree. With a non Germanic, I will feel always.."What is the underlying motive for what he is saying?"
Right. I wouldn't mind non-Germanic ancestry or partnerships so much if they didn't come with a pro-foreign agenda and anti-Germanic agenda at work.

SouthernBoy
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 06:29 AM
Members who aren't Germanic are allowed here through whim. I don't see anything wrong with that. It is a Germanic board after all. :)

Thorburn
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 06:54 AM
I have a question about rule 1 (b).


1 (b). The account of Members that are judged to be, even if only partly ethnically non-Germanic, may be unappealably terminated if their contributions, either individually or in combination with the contributions of other such members, either by force of their numbers or their impact, are increasingly considered a risk to the integrity of or a burden to Skadi Forum (http://forum.skadi.net/), its Mission Statement, or its Germanic community.

How much non-Germanic/non-White heritage is accepted here? I am asking because we have a 1/4 Romani member here and to be honest, the thought makes me kind of uncomfortable, as I am a racialist. Would a 1/4 Black person be accepted for example? What about a 1/2 Black or Asian person? Where does the limit lay? We had threads like this one at least a half a dozen of times if not a dozen of times in the past. I believe all anwers have been given to everybody who is willing to search.

Well, maybe we didn't have such a thread this autumn yet, thus I shall on request summarize my point of view once more. And I want to give a short interpretation of this rule which I consider a very wise rule (because I drew it up myself :D). Skadi's senior staff had signed it without a dissentient vote after a long, long discussion. It is not a non-Germanics out! rule. It is also no non-Germanics in! rule, but more about this later.

Firstly, let me state that Skadi's Mission statement adumbrates each and everyone of Skadi's rules. Skadi is a forum for people of Germanic heritage and supports Germanic preservation. That's our target audience, our aim, the mere purpose of our existence. If you are Germanic and support Germanic preservation you will enjoy preferrential treatment.

If it were possible we would limit the forum to Germanics only in the first place. We are taking reasonable pro-active measures to increase the number of Germanics on the one hand, while we decrease the number of non-Germanics on the other, of course. We IP-ban most European countries with no significant Germanic populace, for example. These Geo-IP lists are not 100 percent accurate and there are ways to come around them, but it's a measure that helps.

Finally, we have to realize, however, that this is still the Internet and that Skadi is an online forum. We have to grant access to the United States, of course, where the indigenous Germanic population might be down to about 50% in the meantime and where quite a few Germanics also have minor European non-Germanic ancestry. European countries like England, Germany, the Netherlands and Scandinavia follow the same trend. Less natives, more foreigners. And on the Internet, everybody can finally pretend to be everyone and everything.

If we would kick everyone out who (allegedly) isn't (fully) Germanic, people who want to write on Skadi for reasons of their own would sign up as Germanics and pretend to be Germanics. It would encourage people to lie about their ancestry, heritage and ethnicity, and non-Germanics would disseminate their views under Germanic profiles. This, in turn, would clandestinely dilute and multi-culturalize our values and culture. And that's why I have always been an outspoken opponent of such an approach.

In general, honesty shouldn't be punished, and I prefer to know with whom I deal. To take one of the examples which had triggered this debate: if somebody would have 25 % Romani ancestry and is honest about it, I would absolutely prefer it over a situation where this individual would be forced by our rules to keep silent of or to lie about this detail. As things are now, the fact is out in the open, and everyone can make up his own mind about it. Every Germanic can decide if he wishes to talk to such a person. Every Germanic can decide whether he considers this persons' points of view relevant. Every Germanic can decide whether he wants to read this persons' posts at all (we still have the "Ignore" button which is unfortunately forgotten so often). Every Germanic girl knows in advance that this gentleman has 25 % Romani ancestry before she befriends him, eventually falls in love with him, and, once in love, eventually maybe does no longer care about this very fact. Everybody knows that whichever views and perspective this person utters stem from someone whose ancestry might be from someone who is most likely close to 100% Caucasian, but is only about 75% or so Europid proper, and everyone can form a judgment about his culture, views and values and whether they are within the Germanic range or not.

So unless such people have clear views which are anti-Germanic or hostile to Germanics, the presence of a certain amount of non-Germanics and people of only partly Germanic heritage will be a price we will have to pay. In some cases it has also been a gift we received. And I think that as long as such people have a serious interest in Germanic topics, Germanic culture and their Germanic ancestry, our traditional Germanic hospitality should be offered to them.

However, we shouldn't lose the focus on our mission statement either: this forum should be primarily for Germanics and not for any Germanics, but for Germanic preservationists. We want to create -- to cite Forseti -- a "Germanic organic community" of people related through common heritage which are bound together by common core values. It had happened in the past that this aim had been seriously undermined either by too many non-Germanics or by small groups or even individuals who by their mere level activity managed to deprive our community of the Germanic vibe, feel and touch and of the "family feeling."

To deal with them, rule 1 (b) has been designed, and if you read it carefully, you will see that it permits us to deal with any (even if only partly) non-Germanic group or individual whose contributions we consider a burden to the integrity of Skadi forum and its mission statement. It's not a definition which percentage of Germanic ancestry a person must have or for how long she must have lived in a Germanic country to count as culturally or ethnically assimilated which would be a long, long debate on its own. It's simply a safety brake which we can pull whenever necessary.


You forgot to ask which categories these people are in. If they're friends with a moderator, they're going to be allowed, d'oh. Some excuse that no one is pure will be given, plus the thread will be closed. ;) That's exactly why it makes little sense to pretend one could prohibit people who are (in reality) not or not fully Germanic from joining an Internet board for Germanics (or what have you). Where such attempts have been tried, they always ended in a multitude of forged identities and hypocrisy by issuing exemptions to the staff's friends.


I'm going to invite my half Gypsy acquaintances to the forum since it's alright. Exactly for them we designed rule 1 (b). :P


Yes. You aren't Germanic or white. You're a mongrel, so you don't belong on a preservationist forum. Ask anyone here if they'd open their family door to someone with 1/4 Gypsy blood and I doubt any true racialist would. Not to mention your philosemitism. You show little like for Germanic preservation, and more for defending foreigners and enemies of Germanics. :| I don't think one needs to be an anti-Semite to support Germanic preservation. Defending "foreigners" and "enemies of Germanics" would be something entirely different and might violate the core rule 1 (a). and the whole mission statement itself. This would be a potential reason for a permanent ban if it would be objective statements and not only a subjective interpretation thereof. Did you report the posts in question?


If I were a new member and I saw the things going on around here, I wouldn't see why I should choose Skadi over eNationalist, Stormfront, Grossdeutsches Vaterland or another forum where they at least limit themselves to White people only. This thread should ring an alarm bell that something's changed around here, and not for the better, might I say. Because for certain Stormfront moderators half-Japanese are "white" as long as they are "hot"? Because on GdV Semites pose as super-Germans? Because of diabloblanco14? :D

Nah, if you are NS or WN then GdV or SF respectively are good forums for you. :)


How do you know they don't have members who aren't pure? We have to go on the honor system. You don't know if there are people on those forums who are really 1/2 Jewish or 1/4 Mexican. A glance into the SF picture thread would suffice? There, I am being sarcastic again. :P


I think the question is quality VS quantity.How many people here that are not full Germanics do we allow in here?What is acceptable? I have distanced myself from family members and friends who choose to mix.I would not let them in my house.I have to deal with non-whites and non-Germanics everyday, that pushes my tolerance level to its limits.In here I want to be with just my own.Members in here that are only part Germanic, but are good and for our people, heritage and blood I think should stay.When I say that I think of Bloodaxis, sorry to use your name, but you make thoughtful and good congtributions to this forum.And I am glad to learn and listen to you.I am not a moderator to make decisions though. You summed it up very well. That would be the aim. I wasn't around much. Is it time again to sweep a bunch of troublemakers off with the 1 (b). broom?


I think by making Germanic Preservation an elitist activity then we do little to help the cause. If someone identifies with the 3/4 of their ethnicity that is germanic and they take an active part in preserving this side of their ethnicity then it should be encouraged. As far as the rule goes I think it has more to do with the behaviour of the person than the exact percentage of their germanic ancestry. It means that there will be less leiniency for people that are partly non-germanic. But this is just my take on it :) Personally, I don't believe there is something like 3/4 Germanic or 3/4 English. You are either Germanic or English or you are not. Either the other 1/4 of your heritage is racially assimilable and you blended into the English ethnicity, as far as language, culture and values are concerned, then you are English. Or it isn't or you didn't -- then you are a "multiculti," "cosmopolitan," "world citizen" or whatever you wish to call yourself. If you go far back enough, nobody has ancestors of his current ethnicity only.

Bärin
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 07:02 AM
I don't think one needs to be an anti-Semite to support Germanic preservation. Defending "foreigners" and "enemies of Germanics" would be something entirely different and might violate the core rule 1 (a). and the whole mission statement itself. This would be a potential reason for a permanent ban if it would be objective statements and not only a subjective interpretation thereof. Did you report the posts in question?
I always report posts. But I am not taken seriously. Why do you think some of us turn to public complaints? Because we aren't taken seriously, Thorburn. Because the forum is reigned by PC people.

Nachtengel
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 07:12 AM
@ Thorburn;
I don't think it's just a matter of sweeping off some troublemakers with the broom. I think it's the "moderates" as Oswiu calls them, who are dominating the staff and membership at the moment. By his own admittance, 2/3 of people in this thread alone hold a moderate position. You say we should report posts, and we do, but action comes with delay when controversial issues like race are involved. As Teutonic mentioned, it took 8 pages for something to be done about anti-Germanicism, but less than a few minutes for something to be done about anti-Slavicism. It's easy to say we should just report posts, when we have no conservative staff to cooperate with. If not for removing some of the moderate moderators, at least more radicals should be added so a side doesn't dominate.

Ossi
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 07:44 AM
Honestly! Go to a jewish orthodox forum and write about how you are 'also christian"!
Fist they will laugh at you, and then they will tell you to get lost.
Some people here think we are writing from the position of being powerful and 'safe' . but we are not safe *because* germanic integrity is considered a form of racism. But yet everybody else's right to self segregate is celebrated.

Go to the Chinese and tell them you are 75% chinese and 25% germanic. tell them you want to be a member of the communist party and become a high ranking member someday. Please find me 1 western mix blood in a position of power of any sort in China. Go to Saudi Arabia, Tell them you are a white christian but you want "in" to their society.

Should I make us some coffee here?
Ya well the foreigners were always better at defending their own folk. Look at the niggers in South Africa. Do they give a damn about affirmative action? Nope. Now look at whites. Judge for yourself. Our nations have become so degenerate it makes you sick.


I'm afraid this is exactly what's happening, Hauke. Some people are becoming more open to multiculturalism, political correctness and even multiracialism, because their friends are involved. When these new members from Human Biodiversity with some black or Indian ancestry were banned, nobody made a fuss. But now we have a regular member who suddenly reveals he is 1/4 Gypsy, which is not a negligible foreign admixture either. But when his place here is questioned, many jump to his defense. Why? Because he's a regular, because he has friends on staff and elsewhere. It seems the rule around here is, as long as you are nice and have friends in some established places, you get the thumbs up. I don't really think if a new member introduced himself and said he is 1/4 Romani he would last very long. It's hypocritical, there should be one rule for all, at least for those with non-White ancestry.
Sort of but not exactly. Some people here have their minds in the right place when it comes to a theoretical approach about race and ethnicity matters, but they find it difficult to apply it practically when their friends are involved. We know theory is little good without practical application.


You summed it up very well. That would be the aim. I wasn't around much. Is it time again to sweep a bunch of troublemakers off with the 1 (b). broom?
It's time to sweep away xenophilia with a broom, lock the door behind it and throw away the key too.


@ Thorburn;
I don't think it's just a matter of sweeping off some troublemakers with the broom. I think it's the "moderates" as Oswiu calls them, who are dominating the staff and membership at the moment. By his own admittance, 2/3 of people in this thread alone hold a moderate position. You say we should report posts, and we do, but action comes with delay when controversial issues like race are involved. As Teutonic mentioned, it took 8 pages for something to be done about anti-Germanicism, but less than a few minutes for something to be done about anti-Slavicism. It's easy to say we should just report posts, when we have no conservative staff to cooperate with. If not for removing some of the moderate moderators, at least more radicals should be added so a side doesn't dominate.
I didn't read most of this thread, just a bit, because it's too boring. But I absolutely agree with her. Many of the current moderators are too liberal about issues like race and ethnicity. Xenophilia needs to be cracked down on. Shouldn't this be expected on a site that deals, in part, with race?

Fortis_in_Arduis
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 08:26 AM
Good morning. I can see that we have been busy. :-O



I thought that the original controversial thread (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=110455)was interesting, because it brought into the debate the question of whether or not nebulous concepts such as 'white' and 'Germanic' are reliable or useful identities.

In relation to the concept of whiteness in South America, Hanna mentioned:


So the claims of being white is very subjective and fluid in racial purity.

I said:


I am 1/4 Romani, so I am going to kick myself off the forum in the sudden realisation that I am neither Germanic nor white:

RIGHT

It is rather infantile to have such an identity, but I consider myself to be both Germanic and white.

If you disagree, I do not mind because of course the terms "white" and "Germanic" are, as the social anthropologists say, mere social constructs, and in the future these terms will hopefully give way to more accurate scientific evaluation of the phenotype; something which I am very much in favour of.

Well... I must be some kind of 'Uncle Tom' to be hanging around on this little forum, must I not? Whatever could my business be? Surely not 'Germanic preservation'...

That was all I said. :)

Minus the picture of me giving Hanna the finger, I think that it was a great post which made a valuable contribution to the discussion, which is more than can be said for much of what followed.

In response to my desire to see the dissolving of the social constructs 'white' and 'Germanic' and their replacement with the scientific evaluation of the genotype ( the DNA etc.), Baerin said:


Of course you are, because you're under the impression it would include you. So suddenly people with non-white ancestry which isn't entirely visible would become "white". This could destroy our folk, because if it doesn't manifest in a generation, it might come out later.

I strongly disagree with what she said and I think that it was based upon a misunderstanding of what I had said because:

DNA, genotype, does not lie, but appearances can, and often do.

Is that not the whole point?

On the contrary, far from obscuring the identities of people with non-Europid admixtures, suddenly people with non-'white' ancestry which is not entirely visible would be EXPOSED, en masse, and the old concepts and infantile designations such as 'white', 'Germanic'-as-a-racial-identity and outmoded classifications such as 'sub-nordic' etc. would be replaced with something closer to the objective truth.

Really, apart from my cheeky finger, and the caption to the photo which read "Greetings from London, Einstein!", I do not see what the subsequent fuss was all about.

I was sticking [my finger] up for the truth and I defy anyone here to prove otherwise.

Sorry dollies, but I do not suffer fools gladly.

Loki
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 10:23 AM
It is not easy to uphold high racial standards on any internet forum, precisely for the reason that we just don't know who is behind the avatar.

A negro can come and register on Skadi, and post pictures of a blond, blue-eyed individual, claiming it to be his/hers. We don't even know for sure that anyone posting on this thread are really who they say they are.

What I do admire of Fortis is his honesty, that is far better than hiding the truth. What would you rather want? That Fortis claimed to be descended from pure Viking stock? I bet you'd be pleased with him then. But thankfully, he has been very honest about himself and his background, and his journey of coming to terms with it. I bet it wasn't easy.

Having Fortis on Skadi is not going to pollute your family tree, I guarantee you. Nor is it going to lower Skadi's standards. The mere fact that this discussion is even allowed testifies to that. It's for everyone to decide for themselves. You don't even have to socialize with everyone on Skadi, there are thousands of members. I also don't like everyone on here, but I choose to avoid those that I don't.

Bottom line is that an internet forum can not be genetically checked. It is not real life, it's just a platform where people post ideas.

Let it be up to the administration to decide if any action needs to be taken.

Sissi
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 10:32 AM
It may be worthwhile pointing out, that while there are two sides to be taken in this discussion, a simple glance through the 'who's thanked who' will demonstrate that the moderates have a rough 2/3 majority over the purists (around 15 to 5 as far as I can make out). The 1/3 position of the latter is significant enough for them to be afforded some respect and freedom to air their views (which is provided for in the rules), but the 2/3 weighs the day. I doubt that this particular time in which the matter has come up is particularly relevant in skewing matters, as there is a reasonably large and varied selection of members online.
My oh my, I guess I must be some ignorant racist since I wouldn't consider 1/4 Roma or Sinti as Austrians. :tired2:

IMHO you are exaggerating a bit if you call those who dismiss 1/4 non-European heritage "purists". I'm not a "purist" and I'm aware that none of us belong to only one ethnicity biologically or ancestrally, but I still don't see a reason I should accept 1/4 Roma or Sinti as my folk kin.

I think some people here oscillate between two extremes. Some think someone with 1/128 Slavic ancestry can't be German for example, while others think someone with 1/4 Roma ancestry can. That's biological construct versus social construct. I think reality lays somewhere in between. I understand some people like Fortis here. I understand that he is allowed, and I don't object to any of this. It isn't any of my business which members are allowed and which are banned. I don't know him either, so I don't make a judgement of his person. What I find disturbing is some people's agendas of downplaying the significance of recent non-European ancestry. To me, recent non-European ancestry is a big no-no. I can't consider anything involving 1/4 non-European ancestry to be "preservation", sorry.

OneEnglishNorman
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 10:41 AM
I can see both sides of this. In the sense that, "pogroms" like this are inevitable when the board sets itself to a high standard (blocking IPs, banning long-standing non-Germanic members of good character). As Dagna observes;


Indeed, but I am not speaking in general. I believe it is about this thread. There is, on one side, the "moderate" party, Fortis, Sigurd (friends?), Maelstrom, Rainraven (partners?), you (English), most of who are either in friendly terms or predominantly English ethnically (except Sigurd) on the other the "radical" party, Todesengel, Bärin (friends?), Teutonic, Volksdeutscher, Anfang, all German ethnically. It is clear to me as an outsider without an opinion (yet) that it is just friendship or ethnic partiality speaking.The English & Americans are more liberal on this, the German-speaking diaspora is more conservative. And there the forum splits. You're going to have real difficulty getting this forum to hang together on it's current basis. It is an irony that there's less fraternity and productive contact between Anglos & Germans today, than before (early 2007), previous the "cleansing" of non-Germanic elements. The removal of those elements is not the issue so much, as the tone it sets.

--

For what it's worth, British gypsies are often as fair as the indigenous population. These are not the same people you see begging in Budapest and elsewhere. Fortis' gypsy grandparent could easily have been lighter than his three British grandparents.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2090/2519155873_541364e606_o.jpg

Anfang
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 10:43 AM
My oh my, I guess I must be some ignorant racist since I wouldn't consider 1/4 Roma or Sinti as Austrians. :tired2:

IMHO you are exaggerating a bit if you call those who dismiss 1/4 non-European heritage "purists". I'm not a "purist" and I'm aware that none of us belong to only one ethnicity biologically or ancestrally, but I still don't see a reason I should accept 1/4 Roma or Sinti as my folk kin.

I think some people here oscillate between two extremes. Some think someone with 1/128 Slavic ancestry can't be German for example, while others think someone with 1/4 Roma ancestry can. That's biological construct versus social construct. I think reality lays somewhere in between. I understand some people like Fortis here. I understand that he is allowed, and I don't object to any of this. It isn't any of my business which members are allowed and which are banned. I don't know him either, so I don't make a judgement of his person. What I find disturbing is some people's agendas of downplaying the significance of recent non-European ancestry. To me, recent non-European ancestry is a big no-no. I can't consider anything involving 1/4 non-European ancestry to be "preservation", sorry.

Thank you. I think you said it better than I did.
As much as I respect Lok, I feel the same way. Loki said "How do we know someone isnt a Negro putting up a fake picture. Well, the second we meet that person in real life we can tell. What this online "Tolerance" does, is say we officially as a group accept these people into our bussom.

What I learned today from this thread is that moderator pool must be made up of only Germanics.

Nachtengel
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 10:50 AM
I can see both sides of this. In the sense that, "pogroms" like this are inevitable when the board sets itself to a high standard (blocking IPs, banning long-standing non-Germanic members of good character). As Dagna observes;

The English & Americans are more liberal on this, the German-speaking diaspora is more conservative. And there the forum splits. You're going to have real difficulty getting this forum to hang together on it's current basis. It is an irony that there's less fraternity and productive contact between Anglos & Germans today, than before (early 2007), previous the "cleansing" of non-Germanic elements. The removal of those elements is not the issue so much, as the tone it sets.
There are plenty of conservative Americans here. The problem is liberalism, no matter the nation it infects. It's like a cancer eating our nations, and very much present on the forum too. If we want to go anywhere, we need less liberals and more conservatives. Conservatism and preservation nearly always match, while liberalism and preservation nearly always conflict.

Patrioten
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 11:01 AM
The English & Americans are more liberal on this, the German-speaking diaspora is more conservative. And there the forum splits. You're going to have real difficulty getting this forum to hang together on it's current basis. It is an irony that there's less fraternity and productive contact between Anglos & Germans today, than before (early 2007), previous the "cleansing" of non-Germanic elements. The removal of those elements is not the issue so much, as the tone it sets.I get the feeling that gypsies have an entirely different image in America, one of exoticness and not so much of negativity, probably due to the fact that there are hardly any gypsies living in America, few have any personal experiences of them, and you might not find the clannish-like families that you find here in for example Sweden or Germany. I would say that gypsies are more disliked and detested than probably any other immigrant group including the more recent non-European ones if you were to ask the public, and from my own experiences I understand and share those sentiments.


For what it's worth, British gypsies are often as fair as the indigenous population. These are not the same people you see begging in Budapest and elsewhere. Fortis' gypsy grandparent could easily have been lighter than his three British grandparents.We have our own version of these pseudo-gypsies called tattare, nowadays going under the more PC term of resande (travellers), I would guess their racial and ethnic origins to be one of some mystery (do they or do they not have gypsy blood? noone can say for sure). Their behaviour was (and is) not much different from that of gypsies and were historically equally detested by commoners and the government for their vagrant nature, thievery and everyday antisocial behaviour.

Fortis_in_Arduis
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 11:50 AM
I think some people here oscillate between two extremes. Some think someone with 1/128 Slavic ancestry can't be German for example, while others think someone with 1/4 Roma ancestry can. That's biological construct versus social construct. I think reality lays somewhere in between.

I do not. I am a purist and I believe that reality is closer to the biological construct, not what people say or think they are.

I thought that the original controversial thread (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=110455)was interesting, because it brought into the debate the question of whether or not nebulous concepts such as 'white' and 'Germanic' are reliable or useful identities.

DNA, genotype, does not lie, but appearances can, and often do.

In response to my desire to see the dissolving of the social constructs 'white' and 'Germanic' and their replacement with the scientific evaluation of the genotype ( the DNA etc.), Baerin said:


Of course you are, because you're under the impression it would include you. So suddenly people with non-white ancestry which isn't entirely visible would become "white". This could destroy our folk, because if it doesn't manifest in a generation, it might come out later.

Far from obscuring the identities of people with non-Europid admixtures, if we look at DNA, instead of silly labels like 'Germanic' and 'white', suddenly people with non-'white' ancestry which is not entirely visible would be EXPOSED, en masse, and the old concepts and infantile designations such as 'white', 'Germanic'-as-a-racial-identity and outmoded classifications such as 'sub-nordic' etc. would be replaced with something closer to the objective truth.

Clearly, Baerin did not know what a genotype is or she would never have said that.

Baerin, yourself, and the other residual Luddites on the forum obviously disagree with me. Perhaps you have your own interest in providing executive arbitration in racial matters? :P

Why should we have to endure these dramas because Baerin does not know what a genotype is, or because Hanna believes that the words 'white' or 'Germanic' signify anything more than just a social construct?

Perhaps you have not considered these matters before, but if you would care to do so now, do you think that you might be able to see my point? :)

In view of what I have explained I feel myself to have been entirely vindicated and my detractors to have been shamed by their ignorance, and illogical natures.

I am not preprared to play midwife to their ill-conceived gestations. If they wish to live in a world of superstition and self-deception, so be it.

BeornWulfWer
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 11:50 AM
I don't know. These threads and certain members always seem to 'pop up'.

For the record, I have had a relationship with a dark complexioned Irish lass for the last seven years (I think!? God don't tell her that I have forgotten again) and we have spawned two children because of my seven year long(?) weakness.

My choice of Godfather for both my children was my best mate who is a pikey, a son of travelling stock.

I sometimes fantasise about hot, blonde Latvian women. I absolutely go weak at the knees for Penelope Cruz.

Oh, and my uncle married a Jew.

Fortis_in_Arduis
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 02:19 PM
Ask anyone here if they'd open their family door to someone with 1/4 Gypsy blood and I doubt any true racialist would.

You can keep your family door shut.

Volksdeutscher
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 02:37 PM
For what it's worth, British gypsies are often as fair as the indigenous population. These are not the same people you see begging in Budapest and elsewhere. Fortis' gypsy grandparent could easily have been lighter than his three British grandparents.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2090/2519155873_541364e606_o.jpg
Nah, I saw this guy's picture, and he looks like he has Gypsy proper in his family line. The kind of Gypsy you find in Romania and Hungary, not begging though, but stealing wallets. :D All irony aside, he looks like he has non-European Gypsy ancestry, but it's not obvious in the picture that was posted in this thread. It was that picture he posted with the middle finger. He looks like he has the perfect face to be put on a manele album cover.

Fortis, if you are certain your genotype is European, post that picture again. But be a true Germanic gentleman and censor the middle finger this time. :D

Dagna
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 03:07 PM
Far from obscuring the identities of people with non-Europid admixtures, if we look at DNA, instead of silly labels like 'Germanic' and 'white', suddenly people with non-'white' ancestry which is not entirely visible would be EXPOSED, en masse, and the old concepts and infantile designations such as 'white', 'Germanic'-as-a-racial-identity and outmoded classifications such as 'sub-nordic' etc. would be replaced with something closer to the objective truth.
What are you doing on a Germanic forum if you believe the designation 'Germanic' is silly and infantile?

Æmeric
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 03:36 PM
I get the feeling that gypsies have an entirely different image in America, one of exoticness and not so much of negativity, probably due to the fact that there are hardly any gypsies living in America, few have any personal experiences of them, and you might not find the clannish-like families that you find here in for example Sweden or Germany. I would say that gypsies are more disliked and detested than probably any other immigrant group including the more recent non-European ones if you were to ask the public, and from my own experiences I understand and share those sentiments.

Most Gypsies in America are Irish or Scottish origins. You sometimes read about them coming through town every few years with some shady schemes, repaving driveways or reshingling roofs with shoody materials. Some of them work the carnival circuit in the summer & fall. They are not ethnically East Indian. It seems likely the many of the Gypsies of Britain & Ireland are of the same stock. I don't know about the Gitanos of Spain. Sometimes you might come across a "Gypsy fortuneteller" but these are just con artists claiming Gypsy heritage to enhance their psychic auras.

Fortis_in_Arduis
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 03:48 PM
What are you doing on a Germanic forum if you believe the designation 'Germanic' is silly and infantile?


If they wish to live in a world of superstition and self-deception, so be it.


I am eating my words now, just for you:

I am suggesting that we embrace science, reform and progress, instead of superstition and self-deception, and group identification though particular words which have little or no scientific bearing whatsoever.

Please do not pretend that you do not understand Dagna. ;)


Fortis, if you are certain your genotype is European, post that picture again.

The picture would not reveal my genotype, only a DNA test would do that.

Baerin made the same mistake.

How much worse can it get? LOL

SouthernBoy
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 03:49 PM
If you go far back enough, nobody has ancestors of his current ethnicity only. "If you go back far enough," that's how you can tell the argument is going to be good. ;)

If you go back far enough, nobody has ancestors that are not Homo erectus. If you go back far enough, nobody has ancestors that are not single celled organisms. If you go back far enough, nobody has ancestors.

Mrs. Lyfing
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 05:26 PM
I would be really upset if someone called me out like that.



Yea I get all the points made. But, really...who cares? This board isn't gonna except Blacks, or just flat out unworthy people...I mean the unworthy defiantly sneak in from time to time, but after a while we usually all figure it out and you will see them inactive. ( One in this thread for example ) ;)

So, why make such a big fuss? Especially in public? And, to be Frank, in my own opinion the idea to create such negativity is far worse than 1/4 of some crap I don't even care about! He made it public, he did not hide it so ...???

Get real. There are exceptions to every rule. And, another thing, who really knows who is who here? I can be a Jewish spy or a ghetto girl so ya know....

^ Just like in life...all ya gotta do is "play the game" ;)

I don't know, I sign in everyday looking for something, and there has been nothing for the longest. I am saddened. I miss the Althing. :( Some of the good ones that helped make this place so good...don't say anything/or barely do. It just isn't the same anymore. ?

Thusnelda
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 05:57 PM
I think 1/4 of Non-Germanic ancestry is significant, especially if the non-Germanic element consists of Non-European or Gypsi blood. So if Fortis would have just became a member of Skadi (telling in his introduction-thread about his gypsi element, for example) I´d support a ban because I consider myself more on the "purist" side, too. But not only ancestry plays a role for me. Behaviour does, too. I´ve experienced Fortis as a friendly member who showed (and shows) serious interest for the Germanic cause over a long time. His contributions are good and reasoned. I don´t doubt his genuineness.

My judgement on him consists of two involved elements: Ethnicy and behaviour. While I´d reject him for his ethnicy (now) I´d let him stay here because of his long-term appropriate behaviour (besides the unneeded sidekick on Hanna and some other minor issues in the past) - and his honesty. As Thorburn said whe shouldn´t punish honesty. I think Fortis was fully awared of the consequences when he unleashed his Gypsi background, so he has my respect for not lying or holding back about it.:)

The amount of active users with significant non-Germanic ethnicy can be count on two hands from my point of view. Most of them are seriously interested in Germanic preservation. As long as this condition remains I think they should stay here as "friends of Germanics". There is no point within our rules which says that only "100% Germanics" are allowed.
But of course, if it becomes obvious that some of them lost their interest in pursuing our board goals then their right to be present on Skadi should be reconsidered. I don´t see such indications regarding Fortis.

On the other hand I agree with the "purists" on this point: We should try to minimize the amount of particularly non-Germanic newcomers and try to maximize the amount of Germanics at the same time. I dislike multiculturalism and political correctness, and the fate of "The Lawspeaker" shows that the staff isn´t poisoned by "multicultural ideology".

But I disagree with some of the "purists" in their approach to get their ideas assembled: Trying to blackmail staff-members, setting up ultimatums, opening the same can of worms over and over again while trampling on the board rules and leading threads off-topic trough ad hominems for the umpteenth time is something I will never support or approve!
(Not seldom I agree with some elements of the posts of Bärin and Ossi - only to shake with my head some seconds later because of their improper aggressiveness and apparant disrespect for the board rules in force! :| A great pity. One of them already digged one´s own grave.)

Loki
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 06:17 PM
I think 1/4 of Non-Germanic ancestry is significant, especially if the non-Germanic element consists of Non-European or Gypsi blood.

1/4 Celtic/Finnish/Slavic would of course be no problem at all, because the race is essentially the same and genetically they are extremely close. Also Northern Italians and northeastern French are genetically very close to Germanic people, because of historical origin.

Fact of the matter is that Germany's and Netherlands's populations are not purely Germanic in origin, but had at least a partial Celtic substratum -- and in the case of eastern parts of Germany, a Slavic element.

Non-European admixture is an entirely different matter.

Cythraul
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 06:43 PM
Fact of the matter is that Germany's and Netherlands's populations are not purely Germanic in origin, but had at least a partial Celtic substratum -- and in the case of eastern parts of Germany, a Slavic element.

Nor English and Scottish. If we were to banish anyone not 100% Germanic, all Englishmen would be gone. We'd be left with Western Scandinavians and Northern Germans only ;) (and even then only the ones with solid proof of their ancestry).

Guntwachar
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 07:01 PM
We'd be left with Western Scandinavians and Northern Germans only (and even then only the ones with solid proof of their ancestry).

So non then alot of them have also Baltic/Slavic ancestry..... its a little fairy tale that Northern Germans and Norse people are more Germanic then people of Frankish ancestry or any other sub-type you could think of.

Seems we end up with no Germanics at all....:D

Schmetterling
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 07:05 PM
On the other hand I agree with the "purists" on this point: We should try to minimize the amount of particularly non-Germanic newcomers and try to maximize the amount of Germanics at the same time. I dislike multiculturalism and political correctness, and the fate of "The Lawspeaker" shows that the staff isn´t poisoned by "multicultural ideology".
White multiculturalism is still multiculturalism. I'm sure you'd agree for example my sister, Fallen Angel, isn't the best example of Germanic preservationist, being married to a Serb-American. In fact, I recall you questioning her place on this board and she said she was denied entry into the Round Table forum because her dedication was questioned. And this, mind you, regards an American of Serb ancestry, who doesn't even speak Serbian or preserve Serbian traditions, but is Anglo-Americanized. What about a "purebred" Russian person then? Some time ago when people were making a fuss about The Lawspeaker's relationship, I expressed my opinion that someone's private relationship shouldn't be put on trial on an Internet forum. Yet his was put on trial and he was made to pay for it. Now you have a second Staff member who dates a non-Germanic. But the same kind of "justice" is not made. Instead of that, I keep reading how Staff members say they don't agree with his choice, but that it's his private life and his business whom he dates. The same kind of politeness and courtesy could have been shown to The Lawspeaker.

I'm not going to say the Staff love or hate multiculturalism and political correctness, but that it lacks consistency. It only applies judgment selectively.

Jäger
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 07:06 PM
Seems we end up with no Germanics at all....:D
There are good enough definitions for who is Germanic and who is not, now the question is whether someone with 1/4th Gypsi (or any non-Eropean) blood falls under this category, I doubt.

Frans_Jozef
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 07:09 PM
Not that my opinion matters (these days), but in the Middle Ages one of the favourite pass-time of the clerics was the ongoing tedious discussion about the gender of angels, centuries later the Catholic Church in Europe is in its death bed...

In Constantinopel intellectuals and clergymen had similar floods of intellectual drivel available on matters best reserved as an afterthought in footnotes, while the Turks were tearing down the walls of their city...

I am sure we'll all know with whom Fortis sides when it comes in standing up for our common future... :)

Nachtengel
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 07:17 PM
Not that my opinion matters (these days), but in the Middle Ages one of the favourite pass-time of the clerics was the ongoing tedious discussion about the gender of angels, centuries later the Catholic Church in Europe is in its death bed...

In Constantinopel intellectuals and clergymen had similar floods of intellectual drivel available on matters best reserved as an afterthought in footnotes, while the Turks were tearing down the walls of their city...

I am sure we'll all know with whom Fortis sides when it comes in standing up for our common future... :)
The question is, do we want 1/4 Gypsies to be one with us. I do not. As some members said already, it's very disturbing how some of you here downplay the significance of 1/4 non-European blood and compare it to insignificant things like the angels' gender.

If our common future involves 1/4 non-European people being accepted as Germanic, then I better get my black dress and prepare for the funeral of my race and nation.

OneEnglishNorman
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 07:31 PM
Some famous Gypsies & part-Gypsies below. To say they are non-European is over-egging the pudding. Partially non-European yet fully Caucasian is fairer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romnichal

http://www.bbc.co.uk/threecounties/content/images/2006/03/29/jake_bowers_203x152.jpghttp://www.valleystream.co.uk/romanybbc/pics/romanyraq.jpg
http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Ejgswa/images/martin_taylor.jpghttp://www.personalityartistes.com/images/joe1.jpg
http://www.britishcouncil.org/330x304louise_doughty.jpghttp://i.realone.com/assets/rn/img/6/7/4/1/16651476-16651479-slarge.jpg
http://www.celebritynooz.com/images/adam_ant-then.jpghttp://www.romansalickiphotography.com/Michael-Caine296-1.jpg
http://graysathletic.co.uk/matches/archives/eastwood_southend.jpg

Thusnelda
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 07:46 PM
1/4 Celtic/Finnish/Slavic would of course be no problem at all, because the race is essentially the same and genetically they are extremely close. Also Northern Italians and northeastern French are genetically very close to Germanic people, because of historical origin.
Well, it wouldn´t be a problem for you, but it would be a problem for me. ;) Our opinions just differ here. Okay, Celts and Germanics are of no real big difference and the historical distinction between Celts and Germanics is a little bit unclear and blurry even nowadays, but I´m far away from recognizing Germanic/Slavic- or Germanic/Pandanian-mixes as Germanics on the same eye-level. They are mixed and it´s important to acknowledge this fact. It shouldn´t become the norm or the ideal. We shouldn´t advocate such mixings, yet we mustn´t treat them with disrespect or hate.

I, too, see a problem in the attempts to broaden the span of tolerance about the question "What is Germanic enough?" further and further. There has to be a border somewhere and I, personally, would set this border more tightly. We shouldn´t become too tolerant since tolerance is it which makes our European societies weak and vulnerable. :(

We can make exclusions from the norm for proven individuals (like Blood Axis or Fortis :) ), but we shouldn´t dilute the norm.

Allenson
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 07:52 PM
.

Sometimes it's actually nice being just a plain ol' 'white' American. ;)

Yes, I jest but it is just to ease the tension a wee bit.

Anyway, I believe that Rule 1B reads quite clearly and should suffice to answer any questions raised herein.

Not everything in life is black or white, Germanic or non-Germanic. Needless to say, there are shades, gradations, clines and levels of acceptability. Certainly these levels will vary from person to person and in a comminity such as this, it is difficult to weigh everyone's specific level of acceptability, take them all in and try to meld them into one community meme. We do try our best, really, we do.

When we get our own country founded, the first thing we'll need to do is set up a Ministry of Phenotypes and Genotypes.

Craniometric examination, pigmentation analysis and a full-scale autosomnal DNA test will be mandatory for all persons wishing residence in Skadiland. Me thinks many will be surprised as what will be revealed!

Æmeric
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 08:04 PM
As some of you recall I have admitted to remote & minute Amerindian ancestry from the colonial era. And I have researched my ancestry pretty throughly, though there are some lines that petered out in the 18th century because of poor record keeping or lost records. Also persons who were of partial Indian ancestry but paid taxes & were US citizens were counted as White in official records. So last March I was surprised when one of my aunts (father's sister) asked me to make copies of this old photo with my scanner & printer:


http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg201/Aemeric/scan0002-1.jpg

According to my aunt & the information written on the back of the photo, this is my great-great-grandmother, my paternal grandmother's maternal grandmother. She was suppose to be the Indian I had heard of in the familytree but had never been able to find documation of. Of this woman's ancestry, I do not know who her father's paternal grandmother was, her paternal grandfather appearing, along with a brother, in a noted (and documented) pioneering family on the Virginia frontier. Of her maternal family, I know her ancestors came from New Jersey before moving to North Carolina around the time of the American Revolution but there is scant information on the women they married other then their first names. But all were legally White. I asked one person here if they thought I should leave after coming across this info but this person said since I was a strong advocate of Germanic preservation I should stay.


http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg201/Aemeric/scan0003-1.jpg

This is my grandmother, the granddaughter of the woman in the previous photo. She was never mistaken as Indian or as non-White. Though recently when I asked Agrippa to classify me he asked for ancestoral photos for comparison & he did detect northeastern (European) or Mongolid influence around my grandmother's eyes & cheekbones ( I didn't tell him about grandma's grandmother). But most persons are not trained anthropologists.

Based on this recent discovery, I can assume I am at least 5% but no more then 8% Amerindian/Mongolid. Which would put on par with Lappish Norwegians & Swedes (not implying all Scandinavians are part Lapp). But I don't think of myself as mixed, don't identify with the Native American movement, have any interest in petitioning for a reservation or opening a casino. I still identify with my colonial era European ancestors. I still disapprove of miscegenation even though it is obvious some of my ancestors committed miscegenation. And I'm still in favor of Germanic preservation & the promotion of an Anglo-American agenda in the US. And for the record, I expressed doubts about "purity" & the one-drop rule long before discovering this info about my recent ancestry because of my own knowledge about genealogical research & because of mathematical odds against purity. I also still think that cases like mine (White but with recent Amerindian ancestry) are the exception among White Americans.

Loki
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 08:19 PM
Well, it wouldn´t be a problem for you, but it would be a problem for me. ;) Our opinions just differ here. Okay, Celts and Germanics are of no real big difference and the historical distinction between Celts and Germanics is a little bit unclear and blurry even nowadays, but I´m far away from recognizing Germanic/Slavic- or Germanic/Pandanian-mixes as Germanics on the same eye-level. They are mixed and it´s important to acknowledge this fact. It shouldn´t become the norm or the ideal. We shouldn´t advocate such mixings, yet we mustn´t treat them with disrespect or hate.

I'm not advocating mixings, I just think in the modern perspective it's no big deal, provided there is close genetic/cultural proximity. Living here in England, I see such a mass of mixed people, that to be excessively purist could do more harm to racial average than otherwise. Maybe we're also confusing race and culture/ethnicity. Ethnicity is more of a social construct than race. If a Pole grew up in a German-adopted family, had a perfectly German culture, would you notice the difference? If anything, this individual would probably more likely be blond and blue-eyed.

We face a greater problem in Europe, than to quibble about European ethnic boundaries. The genuine threat of negroid, North African, Turkic, etc infiltration is so serious that we need to spend all our resources in trying to oppose this. Perhaps when the Pole and the German take hands, we will be more successful in finding solutions. We (Germanics) need all the help and the goodwill that we can get.

As for me, I trace all of my ancestors from a small corner in Northern Europe, encompassing Netherlands, Niedersachsen, Westphalia, Schleswig-Holstein and southern Denmark. I guess that places me firmly in the Germanic category. This is traced from 1596, before the Thirty Years War (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirty_Years'_War), where the German population received a considerable infusion of non-Germanic (southern European) genes.

I don't know what Pandanian is ... :shrug



I, too, see a problem in the attempts to broaden the span of tolerance about the question "What is Germanic enough?" further and further. There has to be a border somewhere and I, personally, would set this border more tightly. We shouldn´t become too tolerant since tolerance is it which makes our European societies weak and vulnerable. :(

We can make exclusions from the norm for proven individuals (like Blood Axis or Fortis :) ), but we shouldn´t dilute the norm.

Well I agree with you, but we should also distinguish between what is allowed on the forum, in discussions, and what we would actually want to become family. There is definitely a difference.

Cythraul
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 08:52 PM
I'm reluctant to become involved in this debate, but it seems to me that there are certain people on Skadi who are so 'perfectionist' that they rarely involve themselves in discussions that aren't questioning the validity of somebody here. Some of you might remember that my preservationist credibility has been called into question because my Mother is Dutch even. I was told that I am not and can never be a preservationist. That's ok. Fortunately I don't put too much sway in the self-righteous words of others, and I would hope that Fortis and the other accused do likewise.

Point is, I'm not against the right of Todesengel, Barin etc to hold the views they hold. In fact, I admire their conviction. It's clear that even among ourselves we have different notions and standards of what preservationism is. The problem is that no single one among us has the right to dictate what Skadi's criteria should be, and despite what some think, preservationism is subjective, and it does carry shades of grey. This is only an internet forum for gods' sake. As Allenson said, the rules are clear and as long as everyone is focussed on discussing Germanicism, the rules are not being breached.

Preservationism is cultural and it is racial. Does Fortis look anything other than Germanic? Not from what I've seen (actually, much like Oswiu, I probably appear less Germanic than Fortis despite being wholly/knowingly of Germanic extraction). Is he culturally anything other than Germanic? Not significantly. That's all I need to know and I'm going to quietly slip back out of this thread if possible.

Anfang
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 09:08 PM
What are you doing on a Germanic forum if you believe the designation 'Germanic' is silly and infantile?


I would not call fortis 'proven" as Dagna has pointed out, it is just the apposite. . I do not understand how in blazes anyone can say the he is a "proven" entity, when he posts that 'Germanic is a silly construct".

This is post modernism and semiotics at work. This is what allows males to reasign themselves as females and then force goverments to accept them real women and legaly classify them as such.
This individual is not stupid, He has a plan, he is insiduous.

Please read this carefully.

As an example, let me use the Social Constructionist branch of Radical Feminists. The Social Constructionist Radical Feminists form the backbone of the legal and academic thinkers in the feminist establishment. They officially seek to "Undo gender". This means they seek a world where there are no "men" and no "women", but only people wth differing biologies.

That is the blueprint tha "Fortis" is utilizing here.
If "Germanic" and "white" are silly constructs,
Then they must be false
If they are false
Then there are no Germanics
If there are no Germanics
Then there are no Germans
If there are no Germans
Then there is no Germany.
There are no Slavs, there are no Turks, no Italians no blacks.
His offering is that the land is occupied by many people with deifferent genetic realities and some are more desireable than others .....*and any individual is free to choose his genetic reality*, that is, to custumize his or her genes by mixing, because if there is no such thing as Germanic then there is nothing between you and miscegination other than your "free will". to pick a desirable genetic makeup for your future generations..

Helloo "National Anarchist". Did you read that on his profile? I think Genetic anarchist describes his ideology better..

National Anarchist is an oxymoron. It is joke on you 'moderates' here.He thinks that he out-smarting you. Anarchists don't believe in nations.

How in the World can we say that this individual is pro-Germanic?
If anything "White and Germanic are silly constructs" is the most German- hating statement anyone could ever make. It is in fact saying that we do not exist.

Dagna
Wednesday, November 26th, 2008, 11:55 PM
I am eating my words now, just for you:

I am suggesting that we embrace science, reform and progress, instead of superstition and self-deception, and group identification though particular words which have little or no scientific bearing whatsoever.

Please do not pretend that you do not understand Dagna. ;)
I believe I understand perfectly. You are calling what this forum stands for, identification as Germanic, silly and superstitious. You believe people who use Germanic as group identification are deceiving themselves. You believe Germanic as group identification should be erased and replaced with something else, something more to your liking. Yet you call yourself a Germanic preservationist. I hate to be rude, but nigga, please.

Anfang
Thursday, November 27th, 2008, 12:50 AM
I believe I understand perfectly. You are calling what this forum stands for, identification as Germanic, silly and superstitious. You believe people who use Germanic as group identification are deceiving themselves. You believe Germanic as group identification should be erased and replaced with something else, something more to your liking. Yet you call yourself a Germanic preservationist. I hate to be rude, but nigga, please.

I must say, that I am astounded by the lack of reaction from people here on this forum. I usually do not ask people "please look at my last post? like I am doing now, but If you look at it you will see that Fortis actually *thanked* it.
A bad Idea can undo a Nation. Think of communism. Fortis's "Idea" is detrimental to Germaniscism. He is not denying it.

Yet many here are chewing their cud not getting this, oblivious.

Schmetterling
Thursday, November 27th, 2008, 12:57 AM
I must say, that I am astounded by the lack of reaction from people here on this forum. I usually do not ask people "please look at my last post? like I am doing now, but If you look at it you will see that Fortis actually *thanked* it.
A bad Idea can undo a Nation. Think of communism. Fortis's "Idea" is detrimental to Germaniscism. He is not denying it.

Yet many here are chewing their cud not getting this, oblivious.
They're ignoring it, because they too don't care about Germanic group consciousness. Say whatever, but the members to whom Germanic consciousness still had some sort of meaning are either banned or left.

A shame, because this place had potential. But nepotism and political correctness destroyed it. I will not fund Skadi once the donations are back.

If anyone is interested in another Germanic forum, I recommend Germanic Worlds. The atmosphere there is less hostile and lecturous to the members and anti-Germanic comments from Romani are not allowed there.

http://gpa.informe.com/forum/

Maelstrom
Thursday, November 27th, 2008, 01:07 AM
They're ignoring it, because they too don't care about Germanic group consciousness. Say whatever, but the members to whom Germanic consciousness still had some sort of meaning are either banned or left.

A shame, because this place had potential. But nepotism and political correctness destroyed it. I will not fund Skadi once the donations are back.

If anyone is interested in another Germanic forum, I recommend Germanic Worlds. The atmosphere there is less hostile and lecturous to the members and anti-Germanic comments from Romani are not allowed there.

http://gpa.informe.com/forum/

If an internet forum is how you get your fix of Germanic group consciousness then I really do worry for you.

Schmetterling
Thursday, November 27th, 2008, 01:10 AM
If an internet forum is how you get your fix of Germanic group consciousness then I really do worry for you.
There is something called context, which you don't really seem to understand. And do keep your immature ad hominems to yourself.

Grimm
Thursday, November 27th, 2008, 01:25 AM
If an internet forum is how you get your fix of Germanic group consciousness then I really do worry for you.

Another one of the old standby responses: deride someone for being passionate about the forum. Sad.:(

Psychonaut
Thursday, November 27th, 2008, 01:34 AM
If "Germanic" and "white" are silly constructs,
Then they must be false


I don't think that the veracity of any given label needs to be completely disregarded when certain aspects of it become superseded by more scientifically accurate labels. The label "Germanic" is not one that is purely racial, linguistic, cultural, religious or geographic; it is an ethnicity and thus it's true meaning lies as the intersection of all of those manifestations. What I get from Fortis' critique is that using outdated systems of racial classification to determine ones Germanicness in lieu of the more correct methods of DNA analysis is inherently flawed. He is most certainly correct that terms like "Germanic" and "White" are nebulous in a way that haplogroups and haplotypes are not. Does this mean that there is no value in the Germanic grouping? Not at all; but it does mean that when more accurate genetic resources can be used they should. It is more correct to speak of someone being genetically I1 than "racially" Nordic

Rainraven
Thursday, November 27th, 2008, 01:43 AM
Perhaps somewhere in the rules it needs to be stated exactly what counts as being Germanic? As that is what this argument seems to have turned into.

Anfang
Thursday, November 27th, 2008, 01:50 AM
I don't think that the veracity of any given label needs to be completely disregarded when certain aspects of it become superseded by more scientifically accurate labels. The label "Germanic" is not one that is purely racial, linguistic, cultural, religious or geographic; it is an ethnicity and thus it's true meaning lies as the intersection of all of those manifestations. What I get from Fortis' critique is that using outdated systems of racial classification to determine ones Germanicness in lieu of the more correct methods of DNA analysis is inherently flawed. He is most certainly correct that terms like "Germanic" and "White" are nebulous in a way that haplogroups and haplotypes are not. Does this mean that there is no value in the Germanic grouping? Not at all; but it does mean that when more accurate genetic resources can be used they should. It is more correct to speak of someone being genetically I1 than "racially" Nordic


No psychonaut, Please read what he wrote. If anything English is an "All business " language.

He said "germanic and white are silly concepts".

Fortis_in_Arduis
Thursday, November 27th, 2008, 02:23 AM
No psychonaut, Please read what he wrote. If anything English is an "All business " language.

He said "germanic and white are silly concepts".
If used to delineate membership or non membership of a racial group, they are certainly inadequate, because there are many complex interrelationships between individuals which are not covered by those blanket terms and our vocabulary and systems of nomenclature have not caught up with the science yet, and the science is moving fast. I bring this up from time to time on the forum. This is nothing new for me. I just think that, in order to progress we need to move away from superstitious subjective group-think towards something more objective when defining race.

SlíNanGael
Thursday, November 27th, 2008, 02:49 AM
The rules do not need further clarification because they are not absolutes and are not meant to be. In the words of another Skadi member (I won't mention names here):


none of the rules are applied to every one all of the time.

the purpose of [...] rules is to facilitate banning.

if everything is against the law - every one is a criminal.

While this particular issue may not be to "criminalize" members, the point is that if the rules needed to be outlined in painstaking detail, they would have been by now. They are there because issues like this are best left to the discretion of the staff and not black-and-white regulations.

Ossi
Thursday, November 27th, 2008, 04:52 AM
I, too, see a problem in the attempts to broaden the span of tolerance about the question "What is Germanic enough?" further and further. There has to be a border somewhere and I, personally, would set this border more tightly. We shouldn´t become too tolerant since tolerance is it which makes our European societies weak and vulnerable. :(

We can make exclusions from the norm for proven individuals (like Blood Axis or Fortis :) ), but we shouldn´t dilute the norm.
That's where you're wrong, if you think one can get away with these exceptions without long-lasting consequences. It's opening a Pandora's box. Germany's future was sealed the moment the FIRST migrant worker from Turkey was allowed in. Today an exception, tomorrow another one, until the number grows to millions and it turns on the entire country. Nah, the doors should have been kept shut to immigrants from day 1 and we wouldn't be in this situation today.

Anfang
Thursday, November 27th, 2008, 05:19 AM
I think when the Þeudanaz reads this thread he will make the right decision.

Until then "Fortis" can post whatever he wants.