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maymon
Saturday, November 22nd, 2008, 10:37 PM
There is no doubt that the Pontic-Caspian area is the most popular place to put the Proto-Indo-Europeans, but I remember that there was an alternative theory called "Broad Homeland" that putted PIE in Northern- and Central Europe, but the wikipedia article has been deleted...

Anyhow, are there any good recent (1980s and forward) works (in english, alldo I can read german a bit) about the placing the Proto-Indo-Europeans in Central Europe, if we rule out the PCT theory.

Anybody sitting on some info about this? How big a possibility is it that the Urheimat was in North- Central Europe? Linguistics, anthropologics, archaeologics, genetics etc ... any good arguments for?

Oswiu
Saturday, November 22nd, 2008, 11:08 PM
I have spoken here several times in favour of a Danubian Urheimat (you might care to search the forum for those two words). :) It just seems the most commonsensical to me. If you find an applicable thread, let me know, and I'll merge yours here with it.

Psychonaut
Saturday, November 22nd, 2008, 11:41 PM
I have spoken here several times in favour of a Danubian Urheimat (you might care to search the forum for those two words). :) It just seems the most commonsensical to me. If you find an applicable thread, let me know, and I'll merge yours here with it.

I'm very curious as to why you're in favor of that idea.

zomo
Saturday, November 22nd, 2008, 11:42 PM
There are more and more ancient DNA studies supporting classic Gimbutas theory.
Y chromosome haplogroups of ancient Southern Siberians from Krasnoyarsk
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/03/y-chromosome-haplogroups-of-ancient.html

DNA from German Corded Ware Burials
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=910625#post910625

maymon
Saturday, November 22nd, 2008, 11:56 PM
I have spoken here several times in favour of a Danubian Urheimat (you might care to search the forum for those two words). :) It just seems the most commonsensical to me. If you find an applicable thread, let me know, and I'll merge yours here with it.

Your refering to this:
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=96980&highlight=urheimat

? :)

Oswiu
Sunday, November 23rd, 2008, 12:02 AM
I'm very curious as to why you're in favor of that idea.
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=96980&page=3

Your refering to this:
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=96980&highlight=urheimat

? :)
Oh you beat me to it!

But I'm sure it's been said elsewhere too, and in greater detail. I'm going to have to sit and write down my definitive position on it, so I've got a decent reply to give when the question comes up again and again! But...:yawn:tired2:;)

lei.talk
Sunday, November 23rd, 2008, 06:09 AM
...I remember that there was an alternative theory called "Broad Homeland"
that put PIE in Northern- and Central Europe,
but the wikipedia article has been deleted...http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Broad_Homeland_hypo thesis&action=edit

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Broad_Homeland_hypothesi s&action=edit

rainman
Monday, November 24th, 2008, 02:03 AM
Isn't PIE associated with the corded ware culture? If so isn't there archaelogical evidence that would pin point a spot for the oldest finds? Maybe not definitive (could be older as of yet unfound remains) but it would seem hardly debateable.

NorthernDawn
Wednesday, October 7th, 2009, 02:53 PM
Isn't "corded wear culture" predominatly associated with the pastoral nomadic horsemen tribes of Central Asia (ie-Caucasus/ Ukraine)? Without disrespectfully disputing any other hypothesis..... the Aryans were horsemen, the evidence for this is found in the Rig Veda, and Northern & Central Europe were certainly not condusive to "horse culture" due to the mountainous terrain.....so I do feel that the original and true Urheimat lies somewhere in the open lands of Central Asia. The possibility of an far more ancient Aryan Urheimat in the Arctic has been discussed in a book by a Vedic yogi (I'm sorry I can't remember his full name at the moment) called "The Arctic Home in the Vedas"....where the hypothesis, backed by passages from the Rig Veda suggest that the Aryans were originally from a formerly warmer and sustainable Arctic area, and forced to migrate to Central Asia due to climate shifts.

Stygian Cellarius
Wednesday, October 7th, 2009, 04:11 PM
Isn't "corded wear culture" predominatly associated with the pastoral nomadic horsemen tribes of Central Asia (ie-Caucasus/ Ukraine)? Without disrespectfully disputing any other hypothesis..... the Aryans were horsemen, the evidence for this is found in the Rig Veda, and Northern & Central Europe were certainly not condusive to "horse culture" due to the mountainous terrain.....so I do feel that the original and true Urheimat lies somewhere in the open lands of Central Asia. The possibility of an far more ancient Aryan Urheimat in the Arctic has been discussed in a book by a Vedic yogi (I'm sorry I can't remember his full name at the moment) called "The Arctic Home in the Vedas"....where the hypothesis, backed by passages from the Rig Veda suggest that the Aryans were originally from a formerly warmer and sustainable Arctic area, and forced to migrate to Central Asia due to climate shifts.

Just because the "Aryans" were a "horse culture" doesn't mean they always were. If the conditions of the Urheimat environment was less than ideal for Horses then they wouldn't have them at that time. If we pretend that the Danube Basin was the homeland, we can assume they were not a horse dependent culture until they migrated East where they would come into contact with large horse herds, domesticate them and then use them thereafter.

This Arctic hypothesis you mention sounds interesting. I'd like to read the verse in the Rig Veda that describes this. Actually, I'd like to build a collection of excerpts of any verse that mentions or describes Aryans. That would be very interesting indeed. :)

I'd like to do this with the Avesta as well.

rainman
Wednesday, October 7th, 2009, 05:03 PM
I've read the quotes somewhere on Skadi. They are based on vague references to a place where the sun doesn't set and such.

Here's the thing though: Scandanavia is also a place of the midnightsun. The earliest conclusive place where we know there were Aryan settlements and which still remain to this day are the Baltics! Estonia, Lithuania etc. Not only is lithuanian basically unchanged from the ancient Aryan, the people there are physically closer to the ancient Aryans of any people on earth, and also we have evidence of the oldest large scale permanent settlements of the Aryans in this area. This would be far enough North to be aware of a place where the sun doesn't set or barely sets for a long period of time and then stays up for a long period. If nothing else they could have heard about it from the natives or had a few people wonder a bit north of their settlement.

In contrast there's no evidence of any migration or settlement at the north pole.

Academia seems to reject these proven facts though. They will play any kind of mental gymnastics to find a non-European origin point for the Proto-Indo-Europeans (formerly known as Aryans whose name they also changed to be non-racist). But frankly the facts don't back up their story. I can buy the idea that they originated around modern day Ukraine or on the steppes of Russia which is directly adjacent to the Baltics but anywhere else doesn't fit in the facts.

I've been trying to find links to this, but can't really find it.

NorthernDawn
Wednesday, October 7th, 2009, 05:05 PM
Here's is the Wiki page on the book......it lists the Rig Veda passages below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Arctic_Home_in_the_Vedas

frippardthree
Sunday, October 11th, 2009, 09:22 AM
I had actually been very familiar with that concept, through some of the old books in my collection. Unfortunately I got rid of most of my library, when I had moved.

This page also explores that concept.

http://www.public.coe.edu/~theller/soj/u-rel/paradise.html

This is the author of this page.

http://www.public.coe.edu/~theller/soj/por/jewett.jpg