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Hauke Haien
Friday, November 7th, 2008, 06:58 PM
From a booklet that was distributed to German pupils:


My Ancestors

Foreword

There was a time when everyone only cared about himself. Everybody only wanted the best for himself. How his fellow man, his neighbour or even our folk fared, he did not care about. It was the time of greatest selfishness.

This time is overcome. Adolf Hitler, our leader, has taught us to think differently. "You are nothing, your folk is everything" has to be the guiding principle in our life. In all of our actions, we have to consider our German brothers and sisters, our German folk. We are not happy and cheerful when we are well while many German people suffer need. We have to work and toil in order to make our German folk into a respected, proud folk again. If we don't just think of ourselves, but also of the well-being of our folk, then we are acting in our leader's spirit, then we are Nationalsocialists.
If we want to act this way, then we must become duly capable, healthy German men and women. Our parents have given us life. In us circulates the blood of our parents. But they have given us much more to take with us for our life. With their blood they bestowed upon us all abilities and traits, good and also bad. The good traits we have to cultivate and develop, the bad traits we have to suppress and fight against. Because we want to be the pride of our parents. Just like our parents are the pride of our grandparents.
And we should always remember our parents, grandparents and great-grandparents in thankfulness. We should never forget them. This purpose is served by this booklet. Search for your ancestors and show yourself worthy in their eyes!

-- Heinrich Friedmann

Bayreuth, Ostermond (April) 1934.

Anfang
Friday, November 7th, 2008, 07:43 PM
From a booklet that was distributed to German pupils:

Unfortunately NS was infested intellectually by many 19th century victorian ideas, many which were in temselves destructive to Germanics. For one Women had no agency, it was like one big military boys school. And allways the males telling what our Sisters (Germanic women) were supposed to be, all comming from that rotten root called christianity, which is undeniably semitic. The More Futuristic NS members were to some degree marginalized. in some ways Rudolf Hess would have made a better leader for NSDAP.

Holz-Klink by the way, is no example to follow.



To some degree Christianity is just as binding on the Germanic spirit and the influence of the Jews, even more sometimes, as the great Numbers of Christians Did and will take up arms to suppress genuine expressions of a Volkisch cultural revival.

This is something to keep in mind too. NS had a lot of blockheads in it.

Pino
Friday, November 7th, 2008, 08:05 PM
Unfortunately NS was infested intellectually by many 19th century victorian ideas, many which were in temselves destructive to Germanics. For one Women had no agency, it was like one big military boys school. And allways the males telling what our Sisters (Germanic women) were supposed to be, all comming from that rotten root called christianity, which is undeniably semitic. The More Futuristic NS members were to some degree marginalized. in some ways Rudolf Hess would have made a better leader for NSDAP.

Holz-Klink by the way, is no example to follow.



To some degree Christianity is just as binding on the Germanic spirit and the influence of the Jews, even more sometimes, as the great Numbers of Christians Did and will take up arms to suppress genuine expressions of a Volkisch cultural revival.

This is something to keep in mind too. NS had a lot of blockheads in it.

the BDM was just as much a part of the youth movement as the Hitler youth, granted they where taught very different things but they where all told to excel in there gender roles which National Socialism acknowledges the differences in gender.

Women generally do not make good overall leaders, or military personnel. National Socialist Germany was very much military oriented and for good reason.

and how could National Socialism in it's early years dismiss Christianity? Germany at the time was 95% Roman Catholic, and I dont mean plastic Christians that you have today I'm talking about the real church going type. Even in it's short existence the Reich took measures to slowly phase Christianity away, this was never going to be an easy task, it's alot easier today to tell people of the horrors of Christianity than it was back then.

Annikaspapa
Friday, November 7th, 2008, 08:42 PM
Germany at the time was 95% Roman Catholic...

While I understand, and appreciate, the point you are trying to make - I can't let this figure go unchallenged. I think an estimate of 30-35% RC would be much more accurate. I don't have the figures in front of me at this time, but I'm certain that, if I'm far off, some fine soul will come along to challenge this.;)

Anfang
Friday, November 7th, 2008, 08:46 PM
the BDM was just as much a part of the youth movement as the Hitler youth, granted they where taught very different things but they where all told to excel in there gender roles which National Socialism acknowledges the differences in gender.

Women generally do not make good overall leaders, or military personnel. National Socialist Germany was very much military oriented and for good reason.

and how could National Socialism in it's early years dismiss Christianity? Germany at the time was 95% Roman Catholic, and I dont mean plastic Christians that you have today I'm talking about the real church going type. Even in it's short existence the Reich took measures to slowly phase Christianity away, this was never going to be an easy task, it's alot easier today to tell people of the horrors of Christianity than it was back then.

I am thanking because you answered not because i agree with you.

1) Germany was *not* 95% RC. Ever heard of a guy called Martin Luther?
Germany was 60% Protestant and 40% RC.

2) Of course that the crap of jesusism was inside the mind of most people,
I am not saying that anything could have been done about it, I am saying that the pride in the Volk, and *more Importantly* the conciousness of those that would make a new way connected to the ancient ways was simply infested by jesusism (among other things ) to such a degree that the
mind of the people was convoluted.

3) With regards to your statement

"Women do not make good leaders" This is not true . Males may indeed make better landsers but as far as logistics and multitasking women are just as good or better. Particularly now that we are living in the 21st century, I will take 2 very well trained women in an attack helicopter over 100 Kalashnikov and RPG armed Muslim Jihadists. Of Course Women cannot do as well as Panzer troops or artillery, but keep in mind that we are even headed towards the absolescense of or beloved panzers. (Believe me I will miss it, no one loves our leopard II a6 more than I do, i want to take one home!).

But the talk about Women in the military is superfluous because everything is *not* the military. And the NS did realize this to some extent, for example Hanna Reitsch was AH's favorite pilot and trusted her above anyone else to get him around the reich. She was a great pilot, a test pilot and a record setter. This Phallocentric Idea some of you NS folk have about Women has got to be eradicated within YOUR OWN MINDS. It is not Germanic. Things are what they are. ...Some women want to stay home. Fine. Some want to be Olympic shot putters. Fine too. I would bet that you cannot toss the shot put anywhere near as far as Nadine Kleinert. If it were up to people with this view you exibit, Nadine would not be Germany's pride.

"QUOTE=Pino;906519]the BDM was just as much a part of the youth movement as the Hitler youth, granted they where taught very different things but they where all told to excel in there gender roles which National Socialism acknowledges the differences in gender."-you wrote.

Exactly. What they were told by men with 19th century Victorian Christianized ideas.

----------------------------------
Once, Gorgo, wife of Leonidas, was asked why Spartan Women had such power Over their men. Gorgo retorted:
"Because we are the Only women that make any men"

Seutonious, Life of the Spartans

http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o30/dergregor/th_la_kleinert_ddp_400.jpg (http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o30/dergregor/la_kleinert_ddp_400.jpg)

Hauke Haien
Friday, November 7th, 2008, 09:20 PM
The whole point is that personal autonomy and self-actualization are precisely not the purpose of life. It is a simultaneous looking back to your ancestors and looking forward to your descendants. It follows then, that women would be encouraged and gain tremendous social prestige from having children, because there is literally nothing MORE valuable that they could contribute to our folk, especially at a time when we are losing the equivalent of a major city full of Germans every single year.

I admire what Nadine Kleinert (and Betty Heidler) can do, but comparing them to random forum members is a cop-out. The point is that they cannot hope to compete with the best men in the field, or specifically those outsiders that our men have to compete with. Promoting the belief that the vital interests of our folk are a matter of individual selfishness, which is what both classical and social liberalism do, leads to disastrous results, i.e. our current predicament.

Pino
Friday, November 7th, 2008, 09:53 PM
1) Germany was *not* 95% RC. Ever heard of a guy called Martin Luther?
Germany was 60% Protestant and 40% RC.

Ok I got mixed up then but Christian none the less!


2) Of course that the crap of jesusism was inside the mind of most people,
I am not saying that anything could have been done about it, I am saying that the pride in the Volk, and *more Importantly* the conciousness of those that would make a new way connected to the ancient ways was simply infested by jesusism (among other things ) to such a degree that the
mind of the people was convoluted.

Perhaps so among the Adults, this had to of been accepted, your not converting anybody away from Christianity when it has been the centre of there like for 40 years, however the youth would be different and I think that is why there was so much emphasis on the youth and it was compulsary for everybody to join the Hitler Youth so the NEW way of thinking could be taught and they would not be influenced as much to carry on there parents mis-fortunes. I think the Nazis accepted that alot of the Adults would never become there ideal NS but they would die eventually and the next generation would be perfect.


3) With regards to your statement

"Women do not make good leaders" This is not true . Males may indeed make better landsers but as far as logistics and multitasking women are just as good or better. Particularly now that we are living in the 21st century, I will take 2 very well trained women in an attack helicopter over 100 Kalashnikov and RPG armed Muslim Jihadists. Of Course Women cannot do as well as Panzer troops or artillery, but keep in mind that we are even headed towards the absolescense of or beloved panzers. (Believe me I will miss it, no one loves our leopard II a6 more than I do, i want to take one home!).

I'm sure there are a small amount of Women who could but I dont think alot of Women could handle the mentel aspects of a battlefield, flying an attack helicopter is hardly being a front line soldier. I dont think a Male has the right Mentel attitude to be able to bring up a child either, everybody has there roles.


But the talk about Women in the military is superfluous because everything is *not* the military. And the NS did realize this to some extent, for example Hanna Reitsch was AH's favorite pilot and trusted her above anyone else to get him around the reich. She was a great pilot, a test pilot and a record setter. This Phallocentric Idea some of you NS folk have about Women has got to be eradicated within YOUR OWN MINDS. It is not Germanic. Things are what they are. ...Some women want to stay home. Fine. Some want to be Olympic shot putters. Fine too. I would bet that you cannot toss the shot put anywhere near as far as Nadine Kleinert. If it were up to people with this view you exibit, Nadine would not be Germany's pride.

Women can fly planes do whtever they like I'm not denying this, I dont want a submissive race of Females that stay at home cooking all day, I've seen videos of NS germany of young German boys and girls working on farmland side by side, Women should be given every opportunity to excel and learn new things. A Woman can make a very good pilot I'm sure, I was talking about being a soldier in the military not flying Adolf Hitler around the country on a private plane.

I would bet I cannot toss a shot put anywhere near as far as Nadine Keinert either, mainly because I have never thrown a Shot Put in my life other than breifly in high school, if I done as much specific Shot Put training as I'm sure she has done then I'm sure I could and I'm sure the best Male Shot Put thrower in the world can throw it further than her. You surely cannot deny that Males have a natural strengh advantage over Females? I can understand you are sticking up for Women and there ability but that is getting borderline reality denial if thats what you are implying.


Once, Gorgo, wife of Leonidas, was asked why Spartan Women had such power Over their men. Gorgo retorted:
"Because we are the Only women that make any men"

and I'm sure they do, and all Males went to join the Spartan army at a young age did they not, the females although I beleive where trained physically as well where not considerd part of the army and did not go off to war.

Anfang
Friday, November 7th, 2008, 10:46 PM
The whole point is that personal autonomy and self-actualization are precisely not the purpose of life. It is a simultaneous looking back to your ancestors and looking forward to your descendants. It follows then, that women would be encouraged and gain tremendous social prestige from having children, because there is literally nothing MORE valuable that they could contribute to our folk, especially at a time when we are losing the equivalent of a major city full of Germans every single year.

I admire what Nadine Kleinert (and Betty Heidler) can do, but comparing them to random forum members is a cop-out. The point is that they cannot hope to compete with the best men in the field, or specifically those outsiders that our men have to compete with. Promoting the belief that the vital interests of our folk are a matter of individual selfishness, which is what both classical and social liberalism do, leads to disastrous results, i.e. our current predicament.


The last thing I am is inclined to "Cop outs!". We simply do not agree. and i think that this patriarchal thinking is rigid and not useful. Simply put I am an alpha wolf and I want an alpha wolf at my side.

I think this type of thinking that both of you espouse is complacent and does not go towards creating the future Volk. The past is only a bridge to the future, and Patriarchy is not a nescesary nor desirable element within our Volk.

In my view this thinking is myopic.

Anfang
Friday, November 7th, 2008, 11:00 PM
Germanic Women in battle

There are other accounts that I can find such as that of the procedure for danish Women to go Viking, and other Historical acounts by the Romans.
The Cimbri, included in this account were an extremely warlike tribe:







Vikings and other Northerners (4), (8), (11)

Strabo (100BC), Plutarch (102BC) Dio Cassius (49 AD), (Tactus, 60AD) all record the existence of women warriors in northern and eastern cultures with great regularity. Roman accounts of battles record finding bodies of female warriors on the battlefield. Thirty captive Gothic warrior women were paraded in front of Emperor Aurelian in 283 AD.

Saxo Grammaticus, writing his History of the Danes in 1200AD, mentions a number of fighting women in Denmark. Numerous other Danish women are listed in various histories as leaders of troops and `sword maidens’. While some of them are daughters of kings, some of them appear to be just regular folk.

Saxon culture in 100 AD regarded women as equals with men. When marrying, men gave the women oxen, horses and bridle, shield and spear while she gave him armor or weapons. Graves of Teutonic women have been discovered which included armor, shield, lance, and sword. According to an article in the Times (8/22/00), DNA testing proves that two bodies buried with spears and knifes, dated AD 450-650, were women. Other graves in England and Denmark have been proven to be women buried with swords and other armaments.

Cimbrian women (100 BC) rode in moving `wagon castles’ and shot arrows at the enemy. They would occasionally emerge from the ‘castle’ and fight with swords.
"


Now as an aside, recently in the year 2001, the body of a Scythian Woman warrior was unearthened in Northern Turkey. They had had the body and all the grave contents for over 2 years and could not figure out that it was a Woman until someone pointed out that the hips were too big for a man.

"The Greek historian Herodotus, writing in the 5th century BC, tells us that the Greeks, having defeated the Amazons, were taking several boatloads of Amazonian slaves on the Black Sea when the slaves overthrew their captors and escaped. Landing on the shores of the Sea of Azov (northeast side of the Black Sea in the modern Ukraine), they intermarried with the nomadic horsemen called Scythians. Regardless of the truth of this history, the Scythians apparently included women as a matter of course in military endeavors. Twenty-five percent of the Sythian gravesites which have been discovered contained women (as determined through DNA testing). These graves had swords, spears, armor and other items of war along with more typical female items such as spindles and mirrors. Some of these graves indicated high status in that the woman was buried with a male servant and/or a horse. This was done to provide servants to aide the warrior in the afterlife.".......

Hauke Haien
Friday, November 7th, 2008, 11:14 PM
The last thing I am is inclined to "Cop outs!". We simply do not agree.
No, we do agree, your argument was simply irrelevant. Nadine Kleinert is better than a random forum member, but she is not the best shot putter we have, that's probably Ralf Bartels. I am sure he can't carry a child to full term, though, which is a major flaw in present times.


and i think that this patriarchal thinking is rigid and not useful. Simply put I am an alpha wolf and I want an alpha wolf at my side.
...who will do her duties just like you do.


I think this type of thinking that both of you espouse is complacent and does not go towards creating the future Volk. The past is only a bridge to the future, and Patriarchy is not a nescesary nor desirable element within our Volk.
This system is not designed to serve men or emulate some magic past. It is supposed to serve our folk and if this means political power is held predominantly by men, then so be it.

Aptrgangr
Saturday, November 8th, 2008, 03:21 PM
"You are nothing, your folk is everything"

How desireable is a folk that consits of nothings only?

Hauke Haien
Saturday, November 8th, 2008, 04:07 PM
How desireable is a folk that consits of nothings only?

It goes on to say that we must work on ourselves for this reason. It is definitely not anti-elitist, although the ultimate end is the folk in its totality. Individual progress does no longer constitute an end in itself, only a means. This can also be derived from the fact that we have a very limited existence whereas our descendants and our folk have the potential to last until all conditions for life have ceased to exist throughout the universe.

Aptrgangr
Saturday, November 8th, 2008, 04:36 PM
It goes on to say that we must work on ourselves for this reason.
I know, still how can one claim you or me were nothing?


It is definitely not anti-elitist, although the ultimate end is the folk in its totality.
One can serve his folk by being an educated and loyal citizen way better than by being just a drone or lackey.


Individual progress does no longer constitute an end it itself, only a means. This can also be derived from the fact that we have a very limited existence whereas our descendants and our folk have the potential to last until all conditions for life have ceased to exist throughout the universe.
The potential, Yes. But it also has the potential to commit a collective suicide because there are no educated and independent thinking individuals leading the politics, science and culture anymore.

Jäger
Saturday, November 8th, 2008, 04:46 PM
How desireable is a folk that consits of nothings only?
It's propaganda, hyper-individualism needs to be countered with extreme meassures, the real outcome will be more in the middle, which is the desired effect.

Hauke Haien
Saturday, November 8th, 2008, 05:08 PM
One can serve his folk by being an educated and loyal citizen way better than by being just a drone or lackey.
The aristocratic self-image, whether adhered to or not, is one of a guardian of order, standing above the masses but working towards the whole as a benevolent patron. Because the whole was literally one's possession, there was a partial overlap between folk altruism and selfishness. This is still visible in efforts by the German nobility to repurchase their former property in the former GDR, often in economically unattractive, downtrodden regions. They build it up with their own two hands and those of their sons and create something valuable there, often involving the restoration and preservation of our common heritage in form of castles, art etc.

There is a need for leaders, educated followers and also drones, but the ultimate purpose of their stratified social roles always remains the same.

Aptrgangr
Sunday, November 9th, 2008, 01:37 AM
It's propaganda,
I did not doubt that for a second. Why does propaganda so often provides rubbish?


hyper-individualism needs to be countered with extreme meassures,
People know these extreme measures - that´s why there is no success for nationalist politics these days...


the real outcome will be more in the middle, which is the desired effect.
Then, why is this not mentioned in your propaganda?



The aristocratic self-image, whether adhered to or not, is one of a guardian of order, standing above the masses but working towards the whole as a benevolent patron. Because the whole was literally one's possession, there was a partial overlap between folk altruism and selfishness. This is still visible in efforts by the German nobility to repurchase their former property in the former GDR, often in economically unattractive, downtrodden regions. They build it up with their own two hands and those of their sons and create something valuable there, often involving the restoration and preservation of our common heritage in form of castles, art etc.

Here we go with the cherry picking again.
Of course there are nobles that do what you described, still there are way more non-nobles that do is as well. (Not to mention the worthless nobles...).



There is a need for leaders, educated followers and also drones, but the ultimate purpose of their stratified social roles always remains the same.
Agreed, now I am curious who wants to be my leader....

Hauke Haien
Sunday, November 9th, 2008, 02:08 AM
Of course there are nobles that do what you described, still there are way more non-nobles that do is as well. (Not to mention the worthless nobles...).
I was outlining the spiritual base of the aristocrat, ideally chosen by overall merit, forming a sort of MeritAristocracy.


Agreed, now I am curious who wants to be my leader....
A leader binds people to his will, perhaps even other leaders. A leader is defined by his ability to create followers. Your attitude is therefore the correct one.

Jäger
Sunday, November 9th, 2008, 10:20 AM
Then, why is this not mentioned in your propaganda?
Because this would destroy the effect of it! If you write that the individual is still somewhat important the idiots among us will just keep being hyper-individualistic, and see this as a kind of belssing for their lifestyle, they are too dumb to realize when this "somewhat individualism" is reached and when they cross the line.
Propaganda is tailored to the most dumb among us, not for a thinking elite you want to convince with arguments.