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Ælfhere
Thursday, December 14th, 2006, 07:01 PM
This topic was touched on in this (http://www.blutundboden.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3108) thread. I'm interested in seeing what people think of using the word Aryan to describe modern Europeans or whites.

Is it appropriate to call the Indo-European race Aryan? Or should this be a name reserved for the eastern branch (Iranians and Indians) only.

NatRev
Thursday, December 14th, 2006, 07:12 PM
Mmmm, is it a 'racial' thing or a 'racist' thing.

I define myself as Aryan but not because I hate Jews or blacks etc... (which I don't BTW) :D

I call myself Aryan as it is what I am.

I call my cats cats as that's what they are. :rolleyes:

klokkwerx
Thursday, December 14th, 2006, 07:30 PM
Good questions.

Since the 'Aryan' is Sanskrit in origin and was to describe the 'noble', but that doesnt describe the Northern European in his own tongue (Germanic/Celtic).

I think that 'Aryan' was horribly killed due to the propaganda against it during and after WW2. Are we really 'Aryan', the Folks from Europe and Vinland? Or does it describe just the acient 'Aryans' that were from Eurasia/Central Asia? I dont know and cant answer this one, but like I said above makes a good point: 'but that doesnt describe the Northern European in his own tongue (Germanic/Celtic).'

I would imagine that it would take a life time of study and sifting thru all the propaganda against the word Aryan to come up with a close answer. But we will see what others say, they might hit the nail on the head.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aryan

barry
Thursday, December 14th, 2006, 08:25 PM
The Aryans were the ancient Iranians: the Northern europeans never called themselves Aryan, {i know that Aryan also appears in the Vedic literature of India}


The Saga of the Aryans is a literary work pertaining to the ancient Zoroastrian religion of Iran.
The Aryans mentioned in the story, set in a time frame of twenty thousand or so years ago, were the original Aryans or Indo-European people of the days of yore. They were noble and tolerant people who considered all races equal and maintained that the righteous men and women of every country reached God - as was proclaimed by the ancient Avestan scriptures such as the Fravardin Yasht.

This can also be seen in the Proclamation of Khushru (Cyrus), one of the great Aryan Kings of Iran, more than 2500 years ago. The Proclamation is today enshrined in the United Nations because it promised equal rights to all his diverse subjects, in the world's first multi-cultural empire which abolished slavery thousands of years before the modern nations of the world even existed. This Zoroastrian King and his descendants, who proudly called themselves Aryans, freed the Jews from their unhappy bondage in Babylon and re-built their Temple in Jerusalem, and for that Cyrus is even praised in the Hebrew Old Testament as the "Anointed of the Lord". This is history. This indeed was the action of a true Aryan - protection of the weak, and benevolence towards different peoples and religions.

In the ancient Indian Mahabharata, a large epic Saga written by the Rishi Veda Vyasa, and in the earlier Ramayana written by Sage Valmiki, the right behaviour and moral conduct of the Aryan is explained in great detail. It is here that we gain a real understanding of what the word "Arya" really meant - nobility in its purest form. From these two epics held in high reverance by the millions of Indians, we can understand the high moral code and chivalrous noble behaviour of the Aryan - how he never raised a hand against the unarmed, how he never hit below the belt, how he protected women and children, how he never fought at night, how he never pursued a fleeing foe, how he respected his parents and cared for them, how he respected ALL righteous people, how he protected the weak - the one who came to him for protection, the "Sharanagat" ie. the one who askes for protection, how he respected and worshipped the elements of God such as the earth, the sky, the wind and the ocean, how he lived his life according to "Dharma" - the high code of morality or righteousness, akin to the Iranian "Ashoi". Indeed in India, the word "Aryan" is still synonymous with nobility and tolerance - as indeed it should be.

As to my own Mazdayasni Zarathushtri religion, the word "Aryan" appears many times in our holy scriptures. Two occurrences which spring to mind are: in the Atash Niyaesh (prayer), the Holy Fire is extolled as:

ATHRO AHURAE MAZDAO PUTHRA

O Fire Son of Ahura Mazda,

AIRYANAM KHARENO MAZDA DHATANAM !

In you shines the Glory of the Aryans, created by Mazda !


In the Fravardin Yasht, we remember and revere our holy ancestors. We take the name of Gaya Marethan (Gayomard) first, the first man on earth:



"We revere the Fravashi (immortal soul) of righteous Gaya Marethan

Yo pairyo Ahurai Mazdai manascha gushta sasnaoscha -

Who first heard (gushta) Ahura Mazda's intentions (manascha)

and commands (sasnaoscha),

Yahmat hacha frathveresat nafo Aryanam Dakhyunam,

Who lead, who fixed the lineage (nafo) of the Aryan Countries,

Chithrem Aryanam Dakhyunam -

He was the Seed, the Origin of the Aryan Countries!"


Such occurrences abound. Needless to say, the ancient Iranians were proud that they were Aryans. They named their country "Iran" after the word (the ancient name of India too is AryaVarta or land of the Aryans. So too for Ireland). The Iranian kings inscribed on stone, "I am an Aryan, son of an Aryan." It was one of these Aryan kings, Cyrus the great, who worshipped at the temples of his diverse subjects and taught the world the true meaning of the words *multi-culturalism* and *tolerance*. The West recognizes that Cyrus's empire was the first true multi-cultural empire in recorded history - that too at a time when the Greeks used to look down with evident hatred on other races as "barbarians".

Lastly but not least, the word "Arya" is linked to the word "Ereta" or righteousness in Avestan, "Rita" in Vedic Sanskrit. This meant the great law of righteousness, and an Aryan was one who followed the law. "Ritu" in Sanskrit meant the cycle of seasons which was an integral part of that moral, physical and spiritual law of God. A "Rishi" was one who explained the law, in Avestan the word "Ratu" was a spiritual teacher of the law of righteousness. The very word "Right" in English could be derived from "Ereta" or "Rita". As such, being an Aryan in both Iran and India, meant following the path of Righteousness as well as being a proud member of the Aryan people.

I don,t know what Northern Europeans should call themselves:



Northern Europeans?

Ewergrin
Friday, December 15th, 2006, 03:33 AM
I believe it is inappropriate.

Regardless of the true history of the term, it's meaning has been twisted and contorted and does nought but shine a bad light on those who choose to use it to describe themselves. People who use it to describe Northern European ancestry pigeonhole themselves instead of empowering themselves like they believe they are doing.

The word is tainted, and I'm sure that our enemies would love for us to continue to use it, for it would only help them in their cause.

Gorm the Old
Friday, December 15th, 2006, 03:35 PM
I agree with Ewergrin that the word is inappropriate for use today as applied to Northern Europeans. The present-day Northern Europeans are NOT Aryans. Their languages are descended from the Indo-Iranian language spoken by the true Aryans of Iran and India but they are probably not either racially or ethnically connected with the Aryans otherwise.

Words rise and fall in response to their use. "Knave" now means a low scurvy fellow, not to be trusted. All it originally meant was a servant boy . On the other hand, "lord" now has high status, but originally meant "he who guards the loaf" (hlafweard). "Aryan" has been so besmirched by Nazi misuse that it will probably never regain its original noble meaning. :~(

Regardless of its noble origin, Aryan is best left unused. So, what do I call MYself ? Nordic, because I am half Norwegian. :redbeard . This term is too narrow in its application, however, to be used generically by Northern Europeans. I have to agree with Barry that they'll just have to settle for calling themselves (proudly) " NORTHERN EUROPEANS" .

klokkwerx
Friday, December 15th, 2006, 06:02 PM
The present-day Northern Europeans are NOT Aryans. Their languages are descended from the Indo-Iranian language spoken by the true Aryans of Iran and India but they are probably not either racially or ethnically connected with the Aryans otherwise..
I some what agree with this because I see that the Indians and Iranians are freely calling themselves "Aryan", take a look at this example: http://www.thearyanschool.net/ & http://www.aryansociety.org/ These people look nothing like the Northern European what so ever! I know that there is a debate on the Aryan invasion of the Indian & Iranian lands, but the big quesetion to me is: are we related to the ancient Aryans too?


Regardless of its noble origin, Aryan is best left unused. So, what do I call MYself ? Nordic, because I am half Norwegian. :redbeard . This term is too narrow in its application, however, to be used generically by Northern Europeans. I have to agree with Barry that they'll just have to settle for calling themselves (proudly) " NORTHERN EUROPEANS" .

Yes, I agree with Egil along with what Ewergrin said...

The word is tainted, and I'm sure that our enemies would love for us to continue to use it, for it would only help them in their cause. .
...this is why: http://foia.fbi.gov/foiaindex/aryanbro.htm
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/american/aryan-nations/
http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?sid=230
http://www.jdl.org/action/action/idaho_98_p1.shtml
http://www.jdo.org/
http://www.kahane.org/ And the list goes on.

If you read into these sites you will find that they are very anti-Aryan , but also anti-anything-to-do-with-Northern-European(ism).

Blood_Axis
Friday, December 15th, 2006, 08:01 PM
Totally inappropriate in any scientific context. It holds more historical/reference value than anything else.

Willow
Monday, December 18th, 2006, 11:58 PM
I like the term Aryan, although, of course, to use it nowadays, for example on a job application, when it asks you to describe your ethnicity:O , well, i doubt very much that you'd get the job...It's always tempting. I mean, they have virtually every other ethnic description on their forms, and i think that 'white british' doesn't quite hit it!
It's a shame that it now carries, for the masses, implications of being an evil, hitler worshipping, white supremacist who condones throwing jews into gas chambers :runaway
Actually, how come Iranians call themselves Aryan...?! they certainly don't look like your stereotypical Aryans, in fact, they just look like arabs to me. Maybe that just proves the above is true after all :eek

NatRev
Tuesday, December 19th, 2006, 07:40 PM
Yes but... I'm sure you all know where the word Éireann comes from?

But agreed, like gay or fantastic, the meaning of the term has changed so much, it's not really that appropriate to use it at times.

Is Europid more appropriate?

The Horned God
Tuesday, December 19th, 2006, 10:34 PM
Is Éireannach mé (I'm Irish)! ;)

Gorm the Old
Wednesday, December 20th, 2006, 02:54 AM
Because, Willow, the earliest people we know of who called themselves Aryan lived in Persia, or Iran. I don't know if they were the same people who live there today. Bear in mind, though, that the present inhabitants of Iran have suffered the degradation brought on by over 1000 years of Islam !

Even if they be of the same ethnic stock as the original Aryans, they are much changed by their thralldom to Islam, and not for the better. The very word; "Arya" seems to be of Iranian origin. The present inhabitants of the land believe that they have the right to apply the word to themselves and claim to be of the same noble race that once dwelt there . :rolleyes:

That claim, I strongly suspect, is debatable.

Ælfhere
Wednesday, December 20th, 2006, 07:06 AM
An organization called the Aryan League of the Islamic Republic of Iran has some interesting things to say on this matter.

The Aryan National Press (http://www.geocities.com/aryannews/) is their website with many articles.

Vanir
Wednesday, December 20th, 2006, 08:38 AM
The word has its use to describe a particular quality encompassed by nobleness, heroism and selfless idealism all rolled into one. Not sure if I'm precisely happy with that description, but I'm sure you get the drift.

The peoples of NW Europe are predominantly indigenous IMHO. We catch a glimpse of an indigenous language in the non IE (non Aryan) substrate.

NatRev
Thursday, December 21st, 2006, 11:37 AM
An organization called the Aryan League of the Islamic Republic of Iran has some interesting things to say on this matter.

I read some of what they wrote about Europeans being descended from Africans. :eek

Iran's pretty screwed up anyway so I can't say I'd give them all that much credibility anyway.

Zoroastrianism seems interesting and certainly Mithraism does hold a great deal of awe, but as others have said before, it's too infected with Islam to be taken seriously.

Ælfhere
Thursday, December 21st, 2006, 04:39 PM
I read some of what they wrote about Europeans being descended from Africans. :eek

Iran's pretty screwed up anyway so I can't say I'd give them all that much credibility anyway.

Yeah the thing about the author of that site is he accuses 19th century European racialists of believing in racial fantasies, but then goes and adopts their ideas for his own people.


Zoroastrianism seems interesting and certainly Mithraism does hold a great deal of awe, but as others have said before, it's too infected with Islam to be taken seriously.

I read "In Search of Zarathustra: The First Prophet and the Ideas That Changed the World" by Paul Kriwaczek. He interviews common Iranians many of whom completely deny the existence of Iran before the coming of Islam. They listen to their mullahs who dismiss Zoroastrianism as error. It shows how when a culture is conquered by Islam they become almost completely Semiticized and taught to hate their true heritage. Even worse than Christianity.

ambiorix
Tuesday, March 27th, 2007, 12:21 AM
I usually use terminology such as...
Indo-European
Germanic
Celtic
Gaelic
Norse
Nordic
European
Northern European
Western European
Eastern European
Southern European
Slavic
Mediterranean
Roman
etc

klokkwerx
Tuesday, March 27th, 2007, 12:56 AM
I usually use terminology such as...
Indo-European
Germanic
Celtic
Gaelic
Norse
Nordic
European
Northern European
Western European
Eastern European
Southern European
Slavic
Mediterranean
Roman
etc
I like to use these terms too, but I also use:
Teuton
Teutonic
Teutonisch
Nordish
Nordic
Nordman