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Blutw÷lfin
Friday, December 8th, 2006, 09:37 AM
GAY couples in Scotland will be able to adopt children for the first time under controversial new laws passed by the Scottish Parliament yesterday.

The Adoption Bill, which will also allow unmarried couples to adopt, sparked furious debate in the Scottish Parliament and protests from religious organisations.

Concerns were slightly assuaged by the addition of "a stable family unit" as one of the considerations included before applicants can adopt.

However, attempts to block the legislation or at least ensure faith-based adoption agencies can opt out were voted down.

Roseanna Cunningham, MSP for Perth, tabled the amendment against gay couples adopting.

"We have a pattern of family life which we have had for generation upon generation," she said.

"All the research shows it is the best way to raise children and I do not think we should depart from that lightly.

"The Scottish Parliament vote cannot stand on its head what has come before and we cannot bemoan the consequences of family breakdown and at the same time do things that undermine the traditional family."

Murdo Fraser, deputy leader of the Tories, also raised concerns: "Many people believe that children need a strong male and female role model and are concerned that adoption by same-sex couples excludes that possibility and is not in the best interests of children," he said.

"People who express these [views] are not homophobes, or extremists or religious nutters, as some would suggest. They have genuine concerns and their concerns should not be dismissed."

Cardinal Keith O'Brien, the leader of Scotland's Catholics, also said children should be brought up by a man and woman. He said: "Of course it is better for a child to be in a loving home.

But a loving home means a mum and dad."

He added: "Basically, it is just not the natural way in which children have ever been brought up. It certainly is an immoral decision. We are descending into a spiral of immorality."

However Patrick Harvie, Green MSP, who is gay, argued that Ms Cunningham's amendment made homosexual couples and their children into "second-class citizens".

He said: "It is an absurd argument. Over millions of years of evolution, diversity is clearly the norm. There have always been gay couples and same-sex parents with children. What we are doing is making sure those children have the same rights as any other child in Scotland."

Around 400 children a year are adopted, compared with 1,000 two decades ago, and there are 6,500 youngsters in the care of local authorities.

Barbara Hudson, director of the British Association of Adoption and Fostering, said any adoptive parent was robustly assessed, not only for the stability of their relationship, but their ability to deal with discrimination. She said: "There are already gay parents bringing up children with strategies to deal with that. We would regret if other people's prejudice stopped children from having a loving family."
LEFT-WINGER CHALLENGING LIBERALISM

THE leader of a small band of MSPs against gay adoption came in an unexpected form.

The left-wing SNP MSP Roseanna Cunningham, who has voted for the repeal of Section 28 and in favour of civil partnership, tabled an amendment to try to stop same-sex couples trying to adopt.

She was backed by just ten other MSPs, but said the point was to voice an opinion widely held in Scotland that a traditional family is the best place to bring up children, rather than to discriminate.

"I may sound old-fashioned and perhaps, I am old-fashioned, but so is the majority of Scotland," she said.

The MSP for Perth felt it was important to challenge the prevailing liberal attitudes in the parliament. She pointed out that the majority of submissions on the bill during consultation were against gay adoption.

"I have concerns about pushing so far ahead of public opinion. I do think there is a considerable body of evidence that suggests that the best place for a child is in an intact, standard family background.

"I think people are concerned about where family life is going in this country."

As a Catholic, the unmarried MSP also has her own personal views.

"The one truth we know about nature is that in order to have a child you need two people of opposite sex," she said.

"I appreciate for some people that is an obstacle which they think can be overcome. In my view, we have to proceed very cautiously before we go down that route."


Source (http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=1822862006)

nordicdusk
Friday, December 8th, 2006, 10:51 AM
No no no no no this is all wrong.There are so manythings wrong with this it dont even know where to start expressing my anger.In an ideal world the family unit is a Mother and a Father if this is not possiable then its a Father or Mother looking after a child or family.It is important in my opinion that there is the influence of both sexes in a childs life.Even if its a single Mother or Father then the influence of and Grandmother or Grandfather is important.I learned different things from my father than my mother.But what harm would be done to a child with both same sex parents.I do not see any physical danger but mental which can be worse.The child has to grow up with two mothers or two fathers the hard time that child will get in school is gonna destroy its young life.

Gorm the Old
Friday, December 8th, 2006, 03:05 PM
As a child who grew up without a father, I can state unequivocally that a child needs the influence of parents of both sexes. Especially, the child needs a role model of its own sex.

I was a wimpy, weepy,timid child who had a very rough time of it in school. My mother was a strong woman, but 'tain't the same. My older brother was home as little as possible and, therefore, had no significant influence upon me.

In short, there was no male role model in my family, and I needed one. I pity any child who grows up in a single-parent family. The child adopted by a gay couple has in effect, two single parents, just as deficient in a role model of one of the sexes.

Though I do not disapprove of gay couples' marrying, viewing marriage as a civil contract rather than a religious sacrament, I think that their adopting children is not in the child's best interest.

Willow
Sunday, December 10th, 2006, 01:28 AM
Having once had many gay friends, i know how promiscuous they are...God only knows what kind of things some kids might witness when growing up..

saga
Sunday, December 10th, 2006, 03:04 AM
To be honest with you, I know kids from gay parents and straight parents and the kids from gay parents are no more effed up than the kids from the straight parents. In fact, two of the most effed up kids in the world that I know are from a straight couple who are extremely INTO their kids. To the point that they have them medicated to the hilt with all sorts of fancy diagnoses and supposed I.Q. measurements. I grew up with a gay friend and I don't think being gay is a choice that one makes. You may not think they should be able to adopt children, but the ones I have seen are not bad parents. Especially after seeing that straight mom smack her kid around at the "Big Lots" today.

klokkwerx
Sunday, December 10th, 2006, 03:08 AM
No no no no no this is all wrong. There are so many things wrong with this I dont even know where to start expressing my anger!

You stole the words right out of my mouth!

All of this homosexual crap going on is sure stiring up the dust, but it sure weeds out the weak from the straight norm and lets the public know who's who.

P°rdy Mountain
Sunday, December 10th, 2006, 08:10 PM
I found this some time ago (don't remember where...)


My gut tells me that when you are homosexual you're kinda cut out of the whole reproduction game. I think its a consequence that gay couples just have to live with. I come to this from a position of feeling that it is the ultimate in misogyny to have a relationship which excludes women but want the benefits of our wombs.

I agree with this statement, but at the same time I also agree with what Saga said. There are tons of ill-fitted straight parents that really should not be blessed with having kids in the first place. Some people just don't know when to stop producing! (An old neighbour of ours had three daughters and one son, where all of them got taken away because she had been abusing and neglecting them. Shortly after she lost her kids, she got pregnant again and managed to give birth to two new children before they also ended up in fostercare. :runaway)

And another thing. My biggest "moral issue" is about gay couple's right to adopt children. I just cannot agree with myself on this matter: When it comes to gay people wanting to adopt orphaned children, are they better off living in an orphanage, or in a home with gay parents? (Should kids be deprived of having a home with two loving parents just because society tells us that being gay is wrong? Or would that child end up with a twisted childhood, being forever picked at in school, never daring to bring his/her boyfriend home to meet his/her parents, or end up as a homosexual him/herself? )

saga
Monday, December 11th, 2006, 02:01 AM
I agree with this statement, but at the same time I also agree with what Saga said. There are tons of ill-fitted straight parents that really should not be blessed with having kids in the first place. Some people just don't know when to stop producing! (An old neighbour of ours had three daughters and one son, where all of them got taken away because she had been abusing and neglecting them. Shortly after she lost her kids, she got pregnant again and managed to give birth to two new children before they also ended up in fostercare. )

Exactly...don't get me wrong, it's not like I'll be inviting any gay people into a kindred. However...is it better to let a child languish in an orphanage than to have people who actually care for it adopt it into their home? Plus, I am not christian. I have no use for the bible and it's various books and testaments. Most people who harbor a preoccupation with "gayness" seem to be christians. I am unfettered with any sort of christian mind-set and so gayness is not so huge a crime to me. I don't find it normal at all, but I don't find it to be the downfall of the family, either. I don't believe these people "choose" to be gay, I think it is an unfortunate event that may take place in utero. Unlike many straight people, gay people really "plan" for children as they are not just a by product of marriage for them. So...if a kid is up for adoption and a gay couple gets the kid...it's really because nobody else wanted that kid. How can you deny the kid somebody, anybody, who would love it?

ladybright
Tuesday, December 12th, 2006, 08:49 PM
Family is what my life revolves around.
I do not have a problem with gay parents or gay couples adopting children.I feel that children are mush healthier with both male and female parental models but sometimes blood parents are not available. Uncles, aunts and grandparens can fill these roles as well. The vast majority of gays and bisexuals that I have known were monomagous and several were very good parents. They were perfect parents but at least as good as the strait parents that I know. Having read some of Andrew Vachss http://www.vachss.com/work recently reminded me that having children raised by the state is a BAD idea. Having two parents that are going to do an acceptable job beats no parents. Having children raised by caring and dependable birth mother and father is the ideal but we do not live in an ideal world.
Years ago I read how haveing some homosexual members of a tribe was good for the survival of the tribe. They were able to devote more energy to food production/hunting and defense of the group and could absorb orphans more easily that families that alread had depentants. This was in reference to America Indian tribes but I feel that the concept is valid in general.

The Adoption Bill, which will also allow unmarried couples to adopt, sparked furious debate in the Scottish Parliament and protests from religious organisations.
Concerns were slightly assuaged by the addition of "a stable family unit" as one of the considerations included before applicants can adopt.
However, attempts to block the legislation or at least ensure faith-based adoption agencies can opt out were voted down.
Roseanna Cunningham, MSP for Perth, tabled the amendment against gay couples adopting.
"We have a pattern of family life which we have had for generation upon generation," she said.
"All the research shows it is the best way to raise children and I do not think we should depart from that lightly.
I agree that it is not good to change familes lightly but I am more concerned about people not in a permanant relationship adopting then couples(gay or strait).