PDA

View Full Version : s: The Divine Songs of Zarathushtra



Zvaci
Saturday, July 13th, 2002, 06:16 PM
The Gathas

The Gathas are the divine songs of Zarathushtra which have remained intact as part of the Yasna, the oldest Zoroastrian scripture which has been passed down through history, and has come into our hands today. The Gathas is the only part of the Zoroastrian scripture which is directly attributed to Zarathushtra.


http://www.zarathushtra.com/z/gatha/az/gathtml.htm

"Gatha" on persian means "hymn",and on croatian-"prophecy".
"Yasna" on croatian means "to be clear".
It is great fealing still to understand some holy words of my great Aryan grandfathers from Achemenidian Persia.
:)

Rahul
Monday, July 15th, 2002, 03:54 PM
To start with, I know an elderly Pars Lady friend of my grandmother. I recall my grandmother's experience when she visited her, she found many new things, which actually showed how common their traditions were. Infact the Vedic language, although of a greater antiquity, is very much like the language of the Avesta.

You read about the Aryan primal milch-cow Purmeya in the Sassanian Pars epic "Shahnama". You cannot help but feel the unity between the Skandinavian Audhumla, the Vedic Kamdhenu.

Ederico
Monday, July 15th, 2002, 05:22 PM
What is the relation between Zoroastrianism and the Rik Veda, and the European Paganism?

Zvaci
Tuesday, July 16th, 2002, 02:51 AM
Avestian(Persian-Median) language is almost identhical with (Sanskrit-language of Rig-veda).Thay are boath wery cloase to the original language that our Aryan grandfathers used speak in their commune antient homeland before thay generaly devidet on two branches circa 4500 years BC-one that arrived on Midle east and Europe,and the one that concured India and was unfortunatley mixed with local niggers called Dravids.

Originaly the book of Avest was made in 12 books.
The Pars,that Rahul mentioned are still living comunity-mostley in Bombay,India,thay are offsprings of Zarathustras Magians that maniged to escape infront of barbarism of Alexander the Great in India.Thay maniged to save only 2 books of Avest.The other 10 of holy books was burned together with palace library at Persepolis.

All authentic Aryan religions have some basic things incommune that makes them diferent from others:
1. Afterlife and final judgemant.-Jews does not have that,Budists allso."Eternal hunting grounds" of Native Americans are more similar to reinkarnation crap than to affterlife in Aryan sence of the word.
2. Dualism-In Monotheistic form,or politeistic,but allways presant in all Aryan religions.

Rahul
Tuesday, July 16th, 2002, 04:03 PM
About reincarnation: Can you present your views on "reincarnationism" which has become an 'industry'?

Zvaci
Wednesday, July 17th, 2002, 01:30 PM
Whell fre-mason new age sects and hippys used to immitate costumes of the east:reincatnation,joga,vegetarianism in one purpose only-to create something diferent from European tradition.All new things look tempting specialy on the minors and on persons of week psyhical constitution.

For example take freaks of hare krisna-thay are not some tratitional religion of india but invention of one new age degenerous that was promoted and comertialised by the rock band Beatles.

In jewish new age even religion is economic product.

Rahul
Wednesday, July 17th, 2002, 02:27 PM
Even I don't understand reincarnation as it exists as a concept today. With all the elements of middle eastern hokum, the literature is in a bad shape.

However, the Upanishads and the Aranyakas do talk of the self(Atman) which is eternal and much of that, I have heard, has a parallel in the quantum physics. There certainly is a powerful logic and factor which we feel and which is present in the Upanishadic doctrines.

I agree with ZWACI on the "Hare Krishnas" who are basically into something which has similar characteristics of the Jewish prophet of Christianity. Therefore some christians are elated to feel a unity with the "Hare Krishna" way of thinking, where you certainly have many core originals from the Aryavert, in terms of thought.

But the fact remains that it is perverted and has become a fad in the modern world, and it is no less free from zionist manipulation as is Buddhism.

OnionPeeler
Sunday, July 21st, 2002, 02:44 AM
All authentic Aryan religions have some basic things incommune that makes them diferent from others:
1. Afterlife and final judgemant.-Jews does not have that,Budists allso."Eternal hunting grounds" of Native Americans are more similar to reinkarnation crap than to affterlife in Aryan sence of the word.
2. Dualism-In Monotheistic form,or politeistic,but allways presant in all Aryan religions

We could probably - and it might be informative to do so - cite other common points in Aryan religions. For example,

3. Creation from Chaos and/or nothingness. This appears in Norse, Greek, Vedic and sort of in elder Yasna.

4. Good/Evil duality. There appears in many an often ill-defined notion of good/evil. Sometimes the gods, themselves, make 'mistakes'. The moral code, however, is very different than the Semitic and, it seems to me, to focus on the warrior ethos and a cosmic Rta (order).

----
Speculative:

A Norse equate to 'Atman'?

fylgjur
The souls of people but separate from their bodies. The fylgjur in ON literature are only seen in dreams or else by people capable of seeing them with supernatural powers. They appear in the shapes of women or animals, but are a kind of doppelganger of the person and can act or else appear instead of him as an ominous sign.

Although the fylgjur are the only indication of a belief in a kind of -> soul in Nordic heathendom, they are definitely defferent form the Christian concept of the soul in that they leave the person at his -> death and become independent beings. On the other hand, fylgjur can transfer to relations so that a certain relationship of the fylgjur to the family must be assumed.

Fylgjur have been understood as being related in some way to the protective spirits of the Roman genii or else with Christian 'guardian angels.' They are more than these, as they are bound by a belief in destiny, and they stand in association to the personified luck of a person, the -> hamingja.

from The Dictionary of Northern Mythology, Rudolf Simek.

The hamingja is a second and separate concept of a soul-like entity. It is, as mentioned, one's 'luck' personified and can apparently transfer to another, separately, and outside the family.

Rahul
Monday, July 22nd, 2002, 02:54 PM
@Triad

The souls of people but separate from their bodies. The fylgjur in ON literature are only seen in dreams or else by people capable of seeing them with supernatural powers. They appear in the shapes of women or animals, but are a kind of doppelganger of the person and can act or else appear instead of him as an ominous sign.

This is very interesting indeed. Infact, I will think and learn more about it now.

Thanks very much Triad, as you know, you have made yet another contribution in my quest.:)

I consciously feel that there is a presence of the "Atman" in all Aryan thought as it developed originally.

Zvaci
Monday, July 22nd, 2002, 10:35 PM
I have forget to add that that one of characteristics that are incomune to all Aryan religions is allso fatalism-belif in desteny.
Most commune represented by 3 wiches.Old Greeks had them,Germanic folks callet them Nornes,celts allso had them-you cann see them in Shakespeares Magbeth.Slavs are allso by nature fatalists.

OnionPeeler
Tuesday, July 23rd, 2002, 06:45 AM
This is not really about Zarathustra, so forgive the aside.

I am not usually susceptible to 'supernatural' happenstance in history, but many years ago one caught my attention. The reason it stood out was that a hostile Roman author spoke of an event of clearly Germanic religious mode. Christians may tell of the 'resurrection' of Christ, but the Romans do not. But this author spoke of the appearance of a Valkyr or Fylgjur unmistakably.

Unfortunately, I can't recall the specific reference. Perhaps Seutonuis or Cassius Dio. I searched for an hour tonight couldn't find the reference but I am certain of its authenticity. I'll keep an eye open for it and report when found.

The event involves the Roman invasion of Germany around 0 CE. The Roman general (perhaps Varus) is visited by apparition, a female of 'barbaric proportions' who warns him to advance no further. In my younger days, I took this to be a Valkyr, but it is equally possible that it was the fylgjur of a seeress or a Germanic commander or holy man. At any rate, it is not a Roman mode and it seems unlikely the Romans would report it.

OnionPeeler
Tuesday, July 23rd, 2002, 07:07 AM
A degree of fatalism is most certainly an Aryan trait - not only religious, but possibly genetic. But it is mixed uncomfortably with a degree of 'push', of 'drive.' In its weaker manifestations it appears as a stoic asceticism. But this latter stoicism, whether in the Christian monasticist, Greek enduring philosopher or the Indian 'man of the forest' seems divorced of the Aryan warrior ethos behind it all....


Arete, Ereta, Rta.

We endure, but we do not give up.

Zarathustra, himself, cast this into a cosmic struggle of 'good and evil' of 'life and not-life.' But he was not above complaining a bit now and then:

1. To what land shall I go to flee, whither to flee? From nobles and from my peers they sever me, nor are the people pleased with me [...text lost...], nor the Liar rulers of the land. How am I to please thee, God?
2. I know wherefore, O Wise Lord, I have been unable to achieve anything. Only a few herds are mine (and therefore it is so) and because I have got but few people. I cry unto thee, see thou to it, O Lord, granting me support a friend gives to friend. Teach me through the Right what the acquisition of Good Thought is.

--Zarathustra, Yasna 46.1-2

In these passages he seems to speak to the modern-day pan-Aryanist.

davison6
Wednesday, July 24th, 2002, 04:23 AM
Originally posted by Triad

fylgjur
The souls of people but separate from their bodies. The fylgjur in ON literature are only seen in dreams or else by people capable of seeing them with supernatural powers. They appear in the shapes of women or animals, but are a kind of doppelganger of the person and can act or else appear instead of him as an ominous sign.

Although the fylgjur are the only indication of a belief in a kind of -> soul in Nordic heathendom, they are definitely defferent form the Christian concept of the soul in that they leave the person at his -> death and become independent beings. On the other hand, fylgjur can transfer to relations so that a certain relationship of the fylgjur to the family must be assumed.

Fylgjur have been understood as being related in some way to the protective spirits of the Roman genii or else with Christian 'guardian angels.' They are more than these, as they are bound by a belief in destiny, and they stand in association to the personified luck of a person, the -> hamingja.

from The Dictionary of Northern Mythology, Rudolf Simek.

The hamingja is a second and separate concept of a soul-like entity. It is, as mentioned, one's 'luck' personified and can apparently transfer to another, separately, and outside the family.Quite related to doppelgangers (pan-european) and banshhes (celtic)

Rahul
Wednesday, July 24th, 2002, 04:10 PM
A degree of fatalism is most certainly an Aryan trait - not only religious, but possibly genetic. But it is mixed uncomfortably with a degree of 'push', of 'drive.' In its weaker manifestations it appears as a stoic asceticism. But this latter stoicism, whether in the Christian monasticist, Greek enduring philosopher or the Indian 'man of the forest' seems divorced of the Aryan warrior ethos behind it all....

The forest dweller is of two kinds, one who has a house or a dwelling in the forest. The other is one who wants to escape. Therefore escapism is the term there in the latter. In the former, its the indulgence.

It can be emphasised with any "philosophical utterings". But it certainly isn't just.

Dayitva(Duty) is the foremost for the noble one, and the duty is to the family, community and the nation. All are actually the same in reality.

Fatalism will be what I feel is defiance. And that is-being true to one's self.