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Northerner
Wednesday, June 28th, 2006, 06:24 AM
Rosicrucianism first appeared on the scene historically when several esoteric documents (Fama Fraternitatis, Confessio Fraternitatis, and the Chymical Wedding of Christian Rosenkreutz )were first published in Europe during the early 17th century. There are number of different Rosicrucian groups today, with many claiming to be the original order, or at least claiming to be a branch of or descended from the original tradition. Many of these groups show a clear theosophical background and appeared to have borrowed heavily from Madame Blavatsky, others claim to be esoteric/gnostic Christian, while some seem to trace their lineage from esoteric Middle Eastern traditions (sufiism, kabbalah, etc.). Nevertheless, Rosicrucian is term that most folks in occult/esoteric circles seem to recognize and about which they seem to have some opinion. Occasionally, I have seen it used in connection with pagan beliefs.

My question is: Of what value, if any, does Rosicrucianism (whatever the form) is it to those interested in Northern European spirituality? Is it something best left alone?

Sigrid
Wednesday, June 28th, 2006, 08:08 AM
As a "shamanic" person, I never leave anything alone and have no interest in prescriptions, moral or otherwise, to do so. What is must be investigated so as to get to grips with its nature and know it by its fruits. Odin, the inspiration for this kind of investigation and wisdom gathering, is the Northern spirituality's role model in this respect. (And Gandalf the wizard is Tolkien's version.)

My father was deeply intrigued by all kinds of spirituality so I got a rather multicultural array of religious and spiritual beliefs scattered round the house and from him directly as I was growing up. He was also interested in meditation which he used to practice in the bath every morning. :D He had a book about Zen, several about Christian seeking of "the Infinite", he had investigated the Free Masons, there was a Catholic Missal, a Protestant Bible, the Qur'an, a Mormon Bible, transcendental stuff etc, and I began to add to my store by practising yoga and taking up paganism.

That is when I began to realise that some of the things I had been experiencing spontaneously from childhood were already well known to certain of these systems.

When someone tells you to leave something alone they are usually doing so from the self appointed position of moral leader. As soon as that happens the first thing you should do is ask "why" and then go into the thing and discover it for yourself. That way no one can instruct you as to what is and is not "acceptable" or "good" and what is, in their own self-opinionated opinion, "evil" and "bad" or "wrong".

My father also often mentioned Rosicrucianism.

There is a tendency for some Northern tradition adepts to get extremely haughty about our tradition and to see it as automatically superior to any other. They are operating under the preconceived idea that national socialism and in particular the occult practices of the SS were a form of Heathenism. They are wrong but that hasn't stopped them from pontificating from as many soap boxes as they can get on in as many places as they can squeeze themselves in and blurring the minds of as many young seekers of esoteric wisdom as they can enter with their drivel and their racist theorising. :mad: (Racial theorising is different and this distinction must be completely understood or grave mistakes will be made in assessing anything, let alone sounding forth on it. )

Then there are the Wiccans who think everything is just spiritual salad. In many ways it is the Satanists now who are using their minds to discover what may lie furled in some corner humanity has neglected through its obtuse belief that the world is a subset of God's will. Or the SS Odinists who think Aryans are a subset of supreme beings and that even though most of them are nothing more than a bunch of ignorant racist peasants with godhood on the brain, they are somehow going to inherit the earth and after that the cosmos by clustering in little groups and participating in oddball rituals to things that our ancestors would not have had a clue about if you were to bring them back today and ask them if they ever engaged in this daft behaviour or believed they were made of godstuff.

Everyone is an expert today, so one has to be careful of taking advice from self-styled gurus of the esoteric. If they aren't raving mad they are after your cash - or both.

Rosicrucianism has a history filled with as much mystery as its pursuits. Wikipedia has a comprehensive entry and links:

The Rosicrucian Order is a legendary and secretive Order publicly documented in the early 17th century. The Rosicrucian Order is viewed among earlier and many modern Rosicrucianists as an inner worlds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plane_%28cosmology%29) Order, composed of great "Adepts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adepts)." When compared to human beings, the consciousness of these Adepts is said to be like that of demi-gods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rosicrucian_Cosmo-Conception#The_Rosicrucian_conception_of _God_and_the_scheme_of_evolution). This "College of Invisibles" is regarded as the source permanently behind the development of the Rosicrucian movement.
Several modern societies have been formed for the study of Rosicrucianism and allied subjects. However, many researchers on the history of Rosicrucianism argue that modern Rosicrucianists are in no sense directly derived from the "Brethren of the Rose Cross" of the 17th century. Instead, they are considered to be keen followers. Moreover, some have viewed the 17th century order as a literary hoax or prank, rather than an operative society. Others contend that history shows them to be the genesis of later operative and functional societies. Rosicrucianism is generally associated with the symbol of the Rose Cross, which is also found in certain rituals beyond "Craft" or "Blue Lodge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Lodge)" Freemasonry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry).

The whole entry, history, development, etc is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosicrucian

Eisenmann
Wednesday, June 28th, 2006, 09:09 AM
ghehehe... is there absolutely nóthing NS-related you approve of?;)

Sigrid
Wednesday, June 28th, 2006, 09:27 AM
Some things are workable, yes, but the whole thing is tainted and you will never untaint it unless you remove certain things from it. After that you will still have socialism and you have to ask yourself today whether socialism is the way to go as it has failed almost everywhere it has been entrenched and that is because it isn't a natural system.

It might be better to develop a new system adapted from natural models. With a new name and a fresh ideology that could offer solutions across the board to nations across the world. Something that works because it is based on a natural system that works. So it will have to be basically environmentally oriented and inclusive in terms of soil utilization, resource management and people management.

The way in which funds are raised for all this will determine whether it is just another socialist ideology or whether it is a new system that is workable because renewable and applicable to more than one situation so that, unlike "democracy" that is being unsuccessfully force fed or offered across the globe right now, it will be a better (because more adaptable and user friendly) method of holistic living. (te-da, te-da ...:fpc )

Eisenmann
Wednesday, June 28th, 2006, 09:36 AM
:) and what sort of points would you suggest?

Sigrid
Wednesday, June 28th, 2006, 10:13 AM
Off topic for Rosicrucianism.

But in answer, I'm not a national socialist so I don't study it or care about it as such. I am interested in the things I mentioned and how they could be developed. There are new right groups (or whatever they now call this evolution) who are discussing these things and at least two British political parties aiming at putting these ideas into action in their own evolving policies.

It is a people input thing, a think tank situation, right now and the environment as it is now (not as it may have been at some other time), that must take precedence and people as and where they are now (and not at some other time) that are the subjects of population management theories and ideas.

But in respect of Pteridium's thread, I will :shutup on this topic here. If you feel like creating a think tank thread then whatever I said before would go on it by default. But I don't join national socialist think tanks or threads because I'm not one. :P

Gorm the Old
Wednesday, June 28th, 2006, 07:14 PM
A late friend of mine was a Rosicrucian for several years and then left the order. His complaint was that Rosicrucianism was (is ?) too authoritarian. "They're trying to tell me how to think and I won't let them do that." was his complaint. I have read some of the Rosicrucian writings for myself and my reaction was "These people are incredibly credulous". They accept alchemy without offering any new evidence for it or any demonstrations that it works. The Rosicrucians' writings on alchemy share one thing with those of the earlier alchemists: obscurity....Like Nostradamus' prophecies, which are shown to be valid only AFTER the events supposedly prophesied have occurred, obscure statements in Rosicrucian writings have been interpreted as revealing superior knowledge of scientific and technological developments AFTER something occurs to which the statement, made long ago, might apply. E.g. In the future, great energy will be obtained from geometrical arrangements of extremely pure elements. In the late 1940's, it suddenly occurred to a Rosicrucian writer that a nuclear fission reactor is a geometrical arrangement of extremely pure chemical elements. See ? They knew all about nuclear fission at the end of the 19th century ! Yeah, right.

Sigrid
Wednesday, June 28th, 2006, 07:38 PM
"Magic" again, all dressed up as alchemy. It's the same with modern paganism, Egil, it cannot loosen the grip that a fascination with personal power has on some of its quite astonishingly ignorant acolytes. :doh

Northerner
Thursday, June 29th, 2006, 07:31 PM
As a "shamanic" person, I never leave anything alone and have no interest in prescriptions, moral or otherwise, to do so. What is must be investigated so as to get to grips with its nature and know it by its fruits............Everyone is an expert today, so one has to be careful of taking advice from self-styled gurus of the esoteric. If they aren't raving mad they are after your cash - or both.

Yes, I am very much in agreement with you on both points, which, to my mind, are two sides of the same coin.


Rosicrucianism has a history filled with as much mystery as its pursuits. Wikipedia has a comprehensive entry and links:

The Rosicrucian Order is a legendary and secretive Order publicly documented in the early 17th century. The Rosicrucian Order is viewed among earlier and many modern Rosicrucianists as an inner worlds (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plane_%28cosmology%29) Order, composed of great "Adepts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adepts)." When compared to human beings, the consciousness of these Adepts is said to be like that of demi-gods (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rosicrucian_Cosmo-Conception#The_Rosicrucian_conception_of _God_and_the_scheme_of_evolution). This "College of Invisibles" is regarded as the source permanently behind the development of the Rosicrucian movement.
Several modern societies have been formed for the study of Rosicrucianism and allied subjects. However, many researchers on the history of Rosicrucianism argue that modern Rosicrucianists are in no sense directly derived from the "Brethren of the Rose Cross" of the 17th century. Instead, they are considered to be keen followers. Moreover, some have viewed the 17th century order as a literary hoax or prank, rather than an operative society. Others contend that history shows them to be the genesis of later operative and functional societies. Rosicrucianism is generally associated with the symbol of the Rose Cross, which is also found in certain rituals beyond "Craft" or "Blue Lodge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Lodge)" Freemasonry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry).

The whole entry, history, development, etc is here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rosicrucian .

Thank you for this. Here is another list of neo-Rosicrucian groups, which has a few other groups listed in addition to those in the Wikipedia article: http://www.levity.com/alchemy/rosi_grp.html

Although I am not a member of any Rosicrucian organization, I have had an interest in the movement for decades and have read many of the materials published by some of these groups. In particular, I have read several of R. S. Clymer's books, as well as modern English translations of some of the much older works like the Fama Fraternitas.

It is interesting to note that the current interest in things like the Merovingian dynasty, the Prieure de Sion, and even the so-called DaVinci code actually overlaps with Rosicrucianism to some degree, though many folks are not aware of it.

Thulean Imperial Inquisitor
Thursday, June 29th, 2006, 08:33 PM
What an interesting topic, Rosicrucianism and Northern European spirituality (http://www.blutundboden.com/forum/showthread.php?p=21742#post21742). I wonder if there is some connection; I'm sure one can be found. I wish I kew more about this topic; Rosicuciansim is something that interests me as does Northen European spirituality of course. It is my view that all genuine spiritual paths share things, just under different names and symbols. I'm sure most spiritual paths contain some authentic truths of the eternal Tradition.



They are operating under the preconceived idea that national socialism and in particular the occult practices of the SS were a form of Heathenism.

[...]

Or the SS Odinists who think Aryans are a subset of supreme beings and that even though most of them are nothing more than a bunch of ignorant racist peasants with godhood on the brain[...].

American! Are you saying that the occult pracices of the SS were not a form of heathenism? If they were not, why? What were their practices then? Do you think heathenism was an organized religion?

You call your Euro- & spiritual-centric racial bretheren a "bunch of ignorant racists peasants". From this it seems to me that you are the one who is ignorant. What makes you display such negative behavior towards your allied kin?


Everyone is an expert today, so one has to be careful of taking advice from self-styled gurus of the esoteric. If they aren't raving mad they are after your cash - or both.

So it may seem. Are you one of the self-styled gurus, who attacks racial and spiritual brethren, without good reasons?

Sigrid
Friday, June 30th, 2006, 08:06 AM
TI, get off the high SS horsie. I'm not attacking my "brethren", I'm stating a fact. And I'm far from ignorant. When a pyschologist diagnosed Stalin as psychotic he was killed, but that didn't change the fact that Stalin was psychotic.

Thulean Imperial Inquisitor
Saturday, July 1st, 2006, 06:59 PM
TI, get off the high SS horsie. I'm not attacking my "brethren", I'm stating a fact. And I'm far from ignorant. When a pyschologist diagnosed Stalin as psychotic he was killed, but that didn't change the fact that Stalin was psychotic.

"Get of the high SS horsie", LOL -- that is a nice one. Hmmm, I have a hard time actually not taking that as a compliment as the SS were pretty good riders, as far as I know. :D

I see your negative comments towards National Socialists racial brethren as attacks and not facts. There seems to be nothing factual about your seemingly emotional statements. Perhaps you are not ignorant per se, but your comments on SS centric racial brethren sure are.

"When a pyschologist diagnosed Stalin as psychotic he was killed, but that didn't change the fact that Stalin was psychotic."

Ok sure.
You are speaking in relation to yourself perhaps? ;)

Regards from Iceland,
Thulean Imperial Inquisitor

Sigrid
Saturday, July 1st, 2006, 08:06 PM
Do you have any idea, how utterly ridiculous "Thulean Imperial Inquisitor" sounds? Do you further realise that Fenris wolf swallowed the Norse creator god at Ragnarok and was the offspring of creatures that destroyed the world the gods had built? It would be the Christian equivalent of worshipping Satan while upholding the Church.

I am of Northern blood and don't need you to tell me who my "brethren" are. I suggest you take a nice long walk off a nice short plank. Or perhaps just grow up.

Thulean Imperial Inquisitor
Sunday, July 2nd, 2006, 02:57 PM
Do you have any idea, how utterly ridiculous "Thulean Imperial Inquisitor" sounds?
I do not have such an idea as it does not sound utterly ridiculous to me. However I might be presenting a slight ridicule with that title, but I am very serious with it, for the most part.


Do you further realise that Fenris wolf swallowed the Norse creator god at Ragnarok and was the offspring of creatures that destroyed the world the gods had built? It would be the Christian equivalent of worshipping Satan while upholding the Church.

I do realise who the Fenris wolf is and what he did. I do not really worship him; I do not worship et al. The title "Fenris Wolf worshiper" is more like a symbolic thing. You see, the worldview of the ancient pagan Europeans was cyclical -- the world went through ages, from a golden age to a iron age (dark age). And we are now in a dark age; known as the Wolf age in Northen mythology and the Kali Yuga in Hinduism. What I mean by the title is that I acknowledge that the present decayed world order will not last forever and that it will be consumed in the fires and out of the ashesh a new order will rise. Do you see the connection with the Fenris wolf in this context?

For more info you could for example read Revolt Against the Modern World : Politics, Religion, and Social Order in the Kali Yuga (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/089281506X/ref=pd_sim_b_1/002-3278721-5227256?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance) by Julius Evola or The Crisis of the Modern World (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0900588241/ref=pd_sim_b_1/002-3278721-5227256?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance) by Rene Guenon.

If you can not grasp the mythological/religious meaning I you could read about a cyclical worldview in books like The Decline of the West (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0195066340/sr=8-1/qid=1151847942/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-3278721-5227256?ie=UTF8) by Oswald Spengler.


I am of Northern blood and don't need you to tell me who my "brethren" are. I suggest you take a nice long walk off a nice short plank. Or perhaps just grow up.

Ok. I might not need to tell you but I did. Your suggestion is worthless and futile -- it is a display of counter-productivity and might tell a lot about you. "Perhaps just grow up"; all right -- I am doing that; everyday I grow physically and mentally and the way I'm growing is upwards. ;)

Sigrid
Sunday, July 2nd, 2006, 03:32 PM
I am 50 years old and I have four degrees. I don't need a lecture from you. I'm not a nazi, so nothing the mass murdering mustachioed one and his clique of boot clicking yes-men did gets any admiration from me. All my Anglo-Norse family fought in the last war and none of them were nazis either. My own Icelandic family's sacrifices are worth more to me than to entertain any ideas of glorying in the achievements of their enemy. They were all tough, hard working and poor. They would kick my ass if I spat on their patriotism and that goes for my family in Norway and England and South Africa too. By all means be a nazi, but try and bear in mind what that means and what it means to the people the nazis invaded and crushed. And, no, I don't think if you take Hitler out of the picture you can continue worshipping this terrible time in history nor its presiding ideology.

But I still don't say you shouldn't if that is what you want to do. You must be free to choose, as I am. And free to change your mind. That is what freedom is about and that is why people fight so hard to maintain it.

Sorry again Pteridium. Nothing to do with rosicrucianism. :shutup

Thulean Imperial Inquisitor
Sunday, July 2nd, 2006, 08:27 PM
I am 50 years old and I have four degrees. I don't need a lecture from you.
Surprising. From what I've read from you in this thread I could've believed you were a teenager -- you seem emotional and even sometimes chaotic. Perhaps you don't need a lecture from me but I think you would benefit from one, if you were prepared too listen.



I'm not a nazi, so nothing the mass murdering mustachioed one and his clique of boot clicking yes-men did gets any admiration from me.
Oh, so you're a believer -- an Holocaustian. I suspected you were. You should try to break from that judeocentric sect; the Holohoax industry. A good starting point might be reading the website of the Institute of Historical Review (http://www.ihr.org).

Oh, and please, when speaking of Eurocentric racial brethren who adhere to the National Socialist worldview do call them National Socialists, not "Nazis". Using the words of the enemy make him stronger.


All my Anglo-Norse family fought in the last war and none of them were nazis either.

I see. So you are saying that your family faught contra Evropa with the judeocrats?


My own Icelandic family's sacrifices are worth more to me than to entertain any ideas of glorying in the achievements of their enemy. They were all tough, hard working and poor. They would kick my ass if I spat on their patriotism and that goes for my family in Norway and England and South Africa too.

Okay cool, that's good.


By all means be a nazi, but try and bear in mind what that means and what it means to the people the nazis invaded and crushed. And, no, I don't think if you take Hitler out of the picture you can continue worshipping this terrible time in history nor its presiding ideology.

But I still don't say you shouldn't if that is what you want to do. You must be free to choose, as I am. And free to change your mind. That is what freedom is about and that is why people fight so hard to maintain it.

By all means I'll be a National Socialist and I will try and bear in mind what that means and what it means to the people the National Socialists invaded and crushed by their beautiful blitzkrieg warmachine. Sun, steel & glory!
Hitler -- the avatar before the last avatar -- the man against time -- will never be out of the picture, I remain steadfastly Hitlerian.

I must indeed be free to choose, as you.

May the force be with you,
Thulean Lord Conquistador ;)

Sigrid
Monday, July 3rd, 2006, 05:51 AM
As you are a strange little troll, I'm afraid I cannot go on speaking to you any longer. Auf wiedersehen, und nicht wiedersehen.

Thulean Imperial Inquisitor
Tuesday, July 4th, 2006, 01:33 AM
As you are a strange little troll, I'm afraid I cannot go on speaking to you any longer.
A troll I am not -- a Man of Icelandic blood I am. But I understand that you mean that my posts in this thread are "trollish" and I disagree. In my view it are your posts that are trollish, you are the one who has written negatively about Eurocentric racial brethren and you are the one who has attempted insaults at my persona. If you, or anyone, reviews our posts in this thread it will be clear that you are the one who started with the negative writings and in reply to that I asked you things like "What makes you display such negative behavior towards your allied kin?"

You replied to that with "TI, get off the high SS horsie.".
In your next post you attacked my username with "Do you have any idea, how utterly ridiculous "Thulean Imperial Inquisitor" sounds?"
In the same post "I suggest you take a nice long walk off a nice short plank. Or perhaps just grow up." this you said, telling me, a racially aware Icelander (one of the very few on this forum), to kill myself and to that I replied "Your suggestion is worthless and futile -- it is a display of counter-productivity and might tell a lot about you.".


Auf wiedersehen, und nicht wiedersehen.

You say goodbye to me in german, I suppose because I'm a National Socialist. I however do not speak german but I do speak Icelandic, Danish and English -- and I do understand Norwegian and Swedish (mostly). Your attempt ridicule me (it would seem) by saying goodbye to me in german is pathetic and typical. I will inform you that like in very many other European countries there was a pre-war National Socialist party in Iceland!




Do you really think I am the troll here? Does anyone else think so? ;)

Blutwölfin
Tuesday, July 4th, 2006, 06:22 AM
NO personal attacks - that is really not necessary. As far as I can see no one is trolling here, but two people with two different opinions met. Is it possibble to accept the ideas of another and get back to the topic without insultings? This is really getting ridiculous, sorry.

Auf Wiedersehen (how it would be correctly written, by the way),
BW

Þessi umfjöllun er þvaður.

Sigrid
Tuesday, July 4th, 2006, 08:44 AM
Because I have been there, done that and bought the t-shirt factory many times before on this subject, I'm not going to get another t-shirt. I'm sick of t-shirts and I'm sick of Nazis. And they're sick of me, so we're quits.

On the subject of my dear racial brethren, many of whom are thicker than two short planks, lazy, rude and no longer able to distinguish themselves from anyone else, I have nothing more to add.

Pride and racism are mutually exclusive, so are supremacy ideology and Heathenism. I am a Heathen, a real one, not a black metal one or a nazi occult racial soldier, or some weird Christian Identity product of the fermented imagination of a man living on a mountain in the middle of nowhere and dreaming he is one of the Israelites. That is ignorance and psychosis and it's embarrassing and should not be tolerated, but it is.

There are umpteen neo nazi, supremacist, racist forums where people like you can talk to other people like you. They shut the public out and have the status of cults. Fine. I think they're nuts, but as long as they stay that way and don't start any militant behaviour like their Muslim brethren are doing then no one will know they are there, or care.

Icelanders are not nazis. Icelanders, are tough minded individuals and so removed from your foreign ideology that they would be willing to take up arms against it. Just because the nazis thought Ultima Thule was Hypoborea doesn't make it so. Hitler was a raving lunatic by the time he got going and had changed from a concerned highly strung young soldier suffering from personal problems to a madman who used his SS to murder millions of people besides the Jews. He had no qualms about killing other Germans, as you know.

Why not just be a proud Viking like your ancestors? Why all this national socialist stuff? Why all this racism? It doesn't suit our character. We are beyond socialism, surely. Socialism is an unnatural and idealistic proposal that turns humanity into a servant of the state and opens the way to elitist cliques that dominate the people and eradicate their freedom on a very basic level. You do as you are told or you face imprisonment and torture. You read what you are told to read, you watch what you are told to watch, you may not criticise the government, you may not complain about anything. You live in constant fear of discovery if you rebel. They make an example of you if you do. I know, I lived in a national socialist state as one of the unchosen for forty years. No, all whites in South Africa were not part of that regime, it was exclusive and extremist and it ruined the country long before the blacks took power. The blacks are simply ruining it by default. The words "I told you so" seem futile now, even though they are valid.

All autocratic regimes start out living off what their predecessors have built and then slowly turn the screw until they have all the wealth in their own hands and all the people doing their will or else. Their methods of staying in power are violent and barbaric. They eventually become the victims of mass revolution. This will happen also to the black government in South Africa because it differs little in modus operandi from its white predecessor. Capiche? The stuff you read on the internet is shot through with propaganda and psychological intent to get your sympathy for only one group of whites there. There are others and they have not tasted any kind of power since they were deposed after the war.

When all the strong men are dead their rivals take over in the gap that opens. Wars do that kind of thing and it happened in Europe to give socialists the chance they needed to take power. You won't get rid of them by using the same tactics because they are too strong now and need vanquishing by means of mass rebellion. Say that too loudly and you will have their version of the Gestapo peering over your shoulder and looking into your life, following you about and viewing you as a threat. These too, are brainwashed ignorant lackeys who will kill their own for the sake of staying out of harm's way themselves or keeping their jobs or doing what they like doing. After a while people join the police and army and government because they like oppressing others and so the circle starts to complete itself without any help from the greater machine.

Enter the revolutionary with his tiny intention to get masses of terrified and somnambulistic sheep to rise up against this tyrant. He is crushed as soon as he raises his head and if he raises his sword he will be made an example of and his people will gain nothing but another martyr. I know. I live in a country like that and I still live in one, one tyrant merely having been replaced by another.


There are always two sides to every story and often more than two sides. You cannot blame everything on the Jews. That is not why Europe went to war. If you believe this then you cut yourself off from all historical debate and begin to exist in some sequestered corner where only anti-Semitism and white supremacy have any validity and eventually you end up talking into a paper bag.

The present political situation where the left is rampant (but dying) and the immigration problem is representing the same opportunity that Hitler seized upon with his hatred of Jews, is what is fuelling the neo nazi movement and getting a lot of ignorant whites to line up and serve a foreign German political ideal. They are not from the war generation and many of them now only have grandparents who fought in the war. It is distant and becoming romanticised and gaining a tint of death and glory that real conflict and real oppression simply do not possess. The French Revolution did likewise and after the rabble had run amok Napoleon found it necessary to suppress them with the Reign of Terror.
Like Hitler and Caesar and all the "fuhrers" of various shades before him, he wanted ultimate control and was an arrogant tyrant who seized the crown and placed it upon his own head in the same way Hitler wanted to seize the elusive Spear of Destiny and thrust it into the side of the Jews. An act of supremacy and aspirant godhood that marks the fanatical egotist and megalomaniac from the rest of his peers.

To be concerned about the fate of Europe and Europeans is not equivalent to racism or anything the nazis were doing. The nazis were only interested in Germans and Germany and in recreating Germania, at no matter what cost and whether people wanted this or not. This disaster in our history cleansed our own people of their best stock as effectively as any other kind of holocaust. And if that were not enough they had the Russians to deal with thereafter when millions went down and not a squeak is heard, no holocaust monuments for them, or for us or for anyone else. The Jews have been accused on more than one occasion, and by Jews themselves, of turning the holocaust into an industry and a propaganda tool for their Zionist ambition to consume all of ancient Palestine.

But that isn't our problem, that is their problem. Our problem is socialism, liberal democratic extremism, extremist feminism and libertinism and the new religious mania of multiculturalism. We won't solve all this mess with a return to what sparked the opportunity to capitalize on the past - nazism. Nazism gave the left the opportunity of a lifetime to make racism a crime world wide and then to blur the distinctions of this concept and make all dissent or ideology that doesn't conform a crime against the multiculturalist view.

This situation has allowed people with neo nazi and racist proclivities to rise as self-imposed heroes of the cause for European self-determination. But they are not this thing, they are opportunists, many of whom are so ignorant and backward that they couldn't run a bath let alone a country. Their movement is full of drunks, thugs, delusionals and psychotics and is claiming the hearts and minds of gullible young people through the window of opportunity offered by the dumbing down of education, negative metal music and the immigrant problem.

But China and India and Asia in general are coming and nothing and no one is going to be able to stop them. So what will happen is a reverse movement of economic migration from west to east and if the welfare taps are turned off the migrants will make for Asia where all the employment and cash will really reside. The claim by leftists that all the wealth in the world is concentrated in the hands of whites is a lie. It is in fact concentrating in the bank accounts of Asians and of Asia. These are the new masters of industry and overlords of labour.

To circumvent our own destruction we need to apply methodology that is in keeping with our situation, not with some outdated theory from the 1930s, not with anti-Semitism as this is sheer madness in view of what is happening in the real world.

In the real world the east is coming to dominate the west in commerce and industry and so, to survive this, the west needs to adapt and evolve a new strategy to deal with the future. That means our populations must decrease to a manageable number. Think tanks have suggested the population of Britain, for example, should reduce to a third of its present chronically overpopulated number and that a socio-political model of sustainability and high technology should be implemented as soon as possible to prepare for this as oil is running out and the support of massive populations of jobsworths is going to be an impossibility.

So you can safely bet on a return migration pattern in the coming decades as living off Europe becomes an unsavoury idea in comparison with living off Asia. Drug production will soar and there will be mega crime rings run by Asian drug lords and their partners in the west. This will eventually lead to trouble but that is in the future. Right now Europeans need to take off the coat of socialism and Christian charity and hugging everyone and getting a warm glow from giving away their countries and sacrificing their blonds to rap stars and start getting to grips with a world without so much cheap oil and one in which smaller populations will be more viable for prevailing economic conditions.

Christian crusaders and right wing fanatics who keep raving on about making millions of white babies simply to meet the Asian threat are wasting their breath. I know from experience that you cannot outbreed the third world. Our own working class populations were falsely inflated by the factory system in the first place. These dispossessed people gave Hitler his modelling clay upon which to build his personal ego and ultimate goal of godhood.

What is needed now is a turning down of the old industrial machine in the west and a change to new technologies and a gigantic effort at saving what's left of our planet.

The Danes have already begun a project of genetic data banking. I saw something about it on TV. They are in South Africa at the moment showing the Africans at a fabric factory how to use certain technology to prevent pollution of a river. This is what we do, this is our future. Not stomping on the helpless nations of the third world. They need to be returned to their countries and aided to develop at rates that suit them not us. Asia has enough workers to fuel its own industrial giants. Asia's power lies in its capacity to breed and for massive numbers of people to act as one. It will kill Asia in the long run and destroy the ecology but there's no stopping these people. They've tried, they have disaster looming but they won't respond until it's upon them.

We are not made this way. We have always been highly individualistic and so our solutions are not in the path of socialism and ranks of millions of clones marching in lockstep, but in smaller groups and nations.

But to be successful the west requires two things: first the left must go, socialism must go. It is the main thrust of any political movement of our time. The left must go and go forever. It has outstayed its welcome and is way past its sell by date. Next, we need co-operation from our people and we aren't going to get this if they persist in playing at nazis or in trying to employ socialist principles to situations that really need new solutions because they present unique problems.

We will lose many of our folk because they won't listen and are busily pouring themselves down the drain. Let them go. These are the ignorant morons who cannot see into the future at all and who have their noses so firmly stuffed into the pig's trough of cash returns or government welfare that they are unable to surface to smell their civilization burning. Nothing unusual in this, it is an old story. Those who see the light will act and escape.

Stop fighting me. I'm not the enemy. Most enemies reside in the mirror. It's true that a cohesive revolutionary new movement is lacking. It's true that things are chaotic. It's true that we are looking down a well. But it won't be the first time. If we are as clever as we keep saying we are then we shall survive this challenge. If not, we will succumb to our own inability to find a solution and rely instead on the failed solutions of others. We shall devolve and fall back and succumb, finally becoming absorbed into the multiculti that will be represented by a moon and star and be in a state of constant warfare with the eastern dragons. That really isn't our destiny, or it shouldn't be and it especially shouldn't be our destiny if we inherited this impasse because we were too backward to go forward.

Leaders are needed, it's true. They have been calling for strong honourable leadership for many years now. I hate the inept, lazy greedy people who could lead them and who would rather fiddle while Rome burns. But leaders will come. Watch for them. The age will give birth to them. All that prevents such a manifestation from succeeding is false belief and fear. Role models are needed so people can learn how to stand up to tyrants.

The dragon slayers and the heroes are waiting to appear. Some are still children. They need us to hold the door open so they can enter the world, and grow up and come to light. The new Axe Age, the golden battle axe Age, yes. I agree. But first the Age of the Wolf, first the death of the old age and its god manifestations and then the doorway will open and the new Age will release its own progeny.

If I have made you very angry, good. If I have made you feel very upset, good. I sincerely hope these emotions are sufficient to cause you to wake up and inherit your destiny as a real Icelandic warrior. If this comes to pass, then, as an Elf and not a troll, I shall be very happy that another new Battle Axe child has come through the door.

Sigrid
Tuesday, July 4th, 2006, 10:54 AM
BW, as I am English and cannot speak German and do not care to learn it and you are Swedish and cannot speak English and do not appear to be interested in learning it, you really don't want to get into what the correct way for doing everything really is. Goodbye and do give my kind regards to the Fuhrer. It is not surprising that we went to war and to prevent us repeating this atrocity, I go. Remember who won the war and why. And bear in mind that Hitler wasn't Swedish or Icelandic.

I think I have wasted half my life on a worthless cause. Still, it is like smoking, it's never too late to stop.

Eisenmann
Tuesday, July 4th, 2006, 11:11 AM
wow...put that sawed-off shotgun back in the closet, ma'am.. you're shooting on everything in sight right now, which is not why shotguns are built. ;)

Blutwölfin
Tuesday, July 4th, 2006, 07:02 PM
[...] and you are Swedish and cannot speak English and do not appear to be interested in learning it, you really don't want to get into what the correct way for doing everything really is. [,...]

What is your problem?
Why are you attacking me?
And what language do you think I am writing in?
I think people understand me quite well - and I understand people quite well, too. I am not sorry for not being a native English speaker, but nevertheless I manage to find out when a topic gets offtopic - like this one since about ten posts ago. My job as an Admin is to put things back in their place, so I asked the participants of this thread to stick to the topic and stop insulting eachother.

Thulean Imperial Inquisitor
Tuesday, July 4th, 2006, 11:15 PM
If I have made you very angry, good. If I have made you feel very upset, good. I sincerely hope these emotions are sufficient to cause you to wake up and inherit your destiny as a real Icelandic warrior. If this comes to pass, then, as an Elf and not a troll, I shall be very happy that another new Battle Axe child has come through the door.

What you have done is made me think that you are close to insane. You have not made me anything remotely related to angry or upset. My path has crossed with hotheaded wannabe Europeans (and wannabe Icelanders) like you before... and they mostly end up leaving ;)

I'll write a longer reply to your silly off-topic post (even off topic to our NS related discussion in this thread) tomorrow.

Gorm the Old
Wednesday, July 5th, 2006, 03:58 PM
It is indeed unfortunate that a forum does not have a means of putting posters on IGNORE as chat rooms do.

Blutwölfin
Wednesday, July 5th, 2006, 07:17 PM
It is indeed unfortunate that a forum does not have a means of putting posters on IGNORE as chat rooms do.


Go to your User CP - Miscellaneous - Buddy/Ignore List.
It has this option.

Gorm the Old
Wednesday, July 5th, 2006, 07:46 PM
Thank you Blutwölfin. I had completely forgotten about that, though I had once availed myself of it previously.

Grimsteinr
Tuesday, April 17th, 2007, 01:11 PM
Yes, the Study of Rosicrucian AMORC, Free & Accepted Masons, 32nd & KT,
Gardnerian Hp, Ordo Templi Orientis, Order of the Trapezoid, and
Rune Gild ..........are ALL important Links in the Study of the Esoteric & Occult Phiosphies of the World. All of these are, in a sense, Magical Communities.

And, for the most part,or at least a Great part, Esoteric & Occult Studies are outside the confines of "Religion", per se, that is the Dictums & Dogmas.
I think, in order to engage in these Practices, one must have a Healthy Belief, in the Gods & Demi-Gods, as well as certain Elemental Beings.
And, I don't mean "just the Northern Gods".

No, Esoteric, & Occult Studies do not have anything to do with "Political Philosophies", National Socialist, or any other.
Yes I understand that there were some higher members of the 3rd Reich,
who were also involved in such Studies.
But AIUI, Hitler himself was Not a Heathen, but remained a Roman Catholic, until his death by suicide.

Yes, I believe, that Heathens, Odinist, Asatru, Theodish or ASH can indulge themselves and immerse themselves, in Esoteric & Occult Studies.
I Am Asatru & Odinist. I run a Kindred and offer Blot & Summel, each Month.
I have been a part of and a member in several working Occult groups, over many years.
One does not necessarily cancel out the other.
It does required a Belief, in the Supernatural. It requires a Belief in Entities,
Beings and Power "Outside ourselves"
And, some Folks do not in their Nature have the facilities to find that Belief,
within themselves. These Folks simply can't make the "Step, of Letting go".

Some of the better "Practicioners" I have known, over the years were some of the most Intelligent Folks, I have known. Some were not. Some were just ordinary, average Folks, with a Wonderful Magical Quirk.
And, some of the most intelligent Folks I have known, simply "Couldn't get it".
I'm not sure why.

But, the Point of this response.........ROSICRUCIAN & Northern European Spirituality?
I guess that'd be up to the INDIVIDUAL.
Can you Compartmentalize, your Own Spirituality, your own Take on Esoteric & Occult Studies?
Some Can, obviously.
Have Fun.

AdamLevi73
Wednesday, August 1st, 2007, 04:37 PM
Rosicrucianism first appeared on the scene historically when several esoteric documents (Fama Fraternitatis, Confessio Fraternitatis, and the Chymical Wedding of Christian Rosenkreutz )were first published in Europe during the early 17th century. There are number of different Rosicrucian groups today, with many claiming to be the original order, or at least claiming to be a branch of or descended from the original tradition. Many of these groups show a clear theosophical background and appeared to have borrowed heavily from Madame Blavatsky, others claim to be esoteric/gnostic Christian, while some seem to trace their lineage from esoteric Middle Eastern traditions (sufiism, kabbalah, etc.). Nevertheless, Rosicrucian is term that most folks in occult/esoteric circles seem to recognize and about which they seem to have some opinion. Occasionally, I have seen it used in connection with pagan beliefs.

My question is: Of what value, if any, does Rosicrucianism (whatever the form) is it to those interested in Northern European spirituality? Is it something best left alone?

First off, hello, this is my first post.

I am by no means an expert on Rosicrucianism, but I believe it could be of great value to those who utilize it. By itself, Rosicrucianism is an amazing sytem to reviel the inner light within one's self. Rosicrucianism has also influenced many of the Western Mystery Traditions both directly and indirectly. Freemasonry, The Golden Dawn, and the O.T.O. have all borrowed from this great organization, and to better understand these organizations, a decent understanding of Rosicrucianism helps.

If you are speaking strictly of Rosicrucianism in relationship to Odinism, this actually may not be of huge value. I see larger influences such as Hermetism, Esoteric Christianity, Kabbalah, Egyptology, and Alchemical influences, but then again, these my eyes I'm looking with, and maybe someone else could see things a little bit differant.