View Full Version : 'Europe's First Pyramids' in Bosnia

Saturday, April 15th, 2006, 01:49 PM
VISOKO, Bosnia-Herzegovina -- Excavation work started on Friday on what a Bosnian explorer claims to be Europe's first pyramids in an area north of Sarajevo.

A team of experts started digging at the site of a 3.8-kilometer (2.3-mile) tunnel believed to lead to one of the two structures resembling pyramids, about 30 kilometers from the Bosnian capital. As residents of the nearby town of Visoko eagerly watched, digging also began on one of ten 20-by-50 meter (65-by-165 foot) wells on the lower slopes of a hill.

Last year explorer Semir Osmanagic started initial probes in the area convinced that the two "constructions" were the work of builders from an unknown civilization who shaped the hill into a 'step pyramid' then coated it with a kind of primitive concrete.

The explorers, who are expected to be joined by an Egyptian archaeologist and a geologist, hope to find stone blocks, or the steps of the "pyramids". Osmanagic says that the two structures are precisely aligned with the compass to the four corners of the world. Visocica Hill, which Osmanagic refers to as the "Bosnian pyramid of the sun", stands some 220 meters high. He says that he sees astonishing similarities between the structures and Mexican pyramids dating back to about AD 200, which also come in pairs, one believed to represent the Sun and the other the Moon. The excavation work led by the foundation "The Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun" that gathers local archaeologists will last for 200 days, and is expected to cost some $150,000.

Source (http://www.metimes.com/articles/normal.php?StoryID=20060414-054600-1273r)

Gorm the Old
Saturday, April 15th, 2006, 03:09 PM
Because of its structural stability, the pyramid is an obvious solution to the problem of building a structure intended to endure for the ages.Wil Cuppy once remarked "What's so amazing about the pyramids standing for thousands of years ? What else can they do ?") No cross-cultural influences are required to account for the appearence of pyramids at different times in different cultures. The step pyramid is easier to build than a smooth pyramid and even the earliest Egyptian pyramids were stepped. Filling in the breaks in slope between the steps is time-consuming and wasteful of materials. The Mesopotamian ziggurats and the Mexican pyramids, and now the Bosnian pyramids represent examples where it was not consideredd necessary or desirable to do the extra work. Even building a stepped pyramid involves an enormous amount of work , enough to lead to wild speculations of intervention by space aliens or levitation of massive stone blocks . The most interesting question about the Bosnian pyramids is "What was the motivation for expending this enormous effort ?" The ziggurats and the Mexican pyramids were just very high plinths, supporting temples. The Egyptian pyramids were tombs. For what were the Bosnian pyramids erected ? Only complete excavation will offer any chance of answering this question.

Monday, April 17th, 2006, 02:13 PM
VISOKO, Bosnia-Herzegovina -- Excavation work started on Friday on what a Bosnian explorer claims to be Europe's first pyramids in an area north of Sarajevo.

A team of experts started digging at the site of a 3.8-kilometer (2.3-mile) tunnel believed to lead to one of the two structures resembling pyramids, about 30 kilometers from the Bosnian capital. As residents of the nearby town of Visoko eagerly watched, digging also began on one of ten 20-by-50 meter (65-by-165 foot) wells on the lower slopes of a hill.

Last year explorer Semir Osmanagic started initial probes in the area convinced that the two "constructions" were the work of builders from an unknown civilization who shaped the hill into a 'step pyramid' then coated it with a kind of primitive concrete.

The explorers, who are expected to be joined by an Egyptian archaeologist and a geologist, hope to find stone blocks, or the steps of the "pyramids".

Osmanagic says that the two structures are precisely aligned with the compass to the four corners of the world. Visocica Hill, which Osmanagic refers to as the "Bosnian pyramid of the sun", stands some 220 meters high.

He says that he sees astonishing similarities between the structures and Mexican pyramids dating back to about AD 200, which also come in pairs, one believed to represent the Sun and the other the Moon. The excavation work led by the foundation "The Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun" that gathers local archaeologists will last for 200 days, and is expected to cost some $150,000.

Source (http://www.metimes.com/articles/normal.php?StoryID=20060414-054600-1273r)

Monday, April 17th, 2006, 04:47 PM
I had no idea there were also pyramids in China. Also in inner Mongolia and according to Buddhist records some as old as 5,000 years. Very interesting!


Friday, April 21st, 2006, 12:18 PM
They have found the first sloping cut stones of the suspected Bosnian pyramid and a man-made tunnel.


Friday, April 21st, 2006, 12:44 PM
There are also tales of the ruins of pyramid like structures in QLD here in Australia near a town named Gympie http://www.warriors.egympie.com.au/pyramid.html

Friday, April 21st, 2006, 01:16 PM
I had no idea that existed, Vanir. :O I would suspect people from ancient China as they were master mariners and had discovered Africa and also built pyramids.

Do you have any info on the Abo legends concerning the pyramid builders or visitors to the area described in your link?

Friday, April 21st, 2006, 01:59 PM

Evidence of Pyramid Uncovered In Bosnia

By Amel Emric
Associated Press
posted: 20 April 2006
09:44 am ET

http://images.livescience.com/images/060420_bosnia_pyramid_01.jpg http://images.livescience.com/template_images/livescience/transpacer.gif
VISOKO, Bosnia-Herzegovina (AP) -- Researchers on Wednesday unearthed geometrically cut stone slabs that they said could form part of the sloping surface of what they believe is an ancient pyramid lying beneath a huge hill.

Archaeologists and other experts began digging at this central Bosnian town last week to explore the team leader's theory that the 2,120-foot hill covers a step pyramid, which would be the first ever found in Europe.

"These are the first uncovered walls of the pyramid,'' Semir Osmanagic, a Bosnian archaeologist who studied the pyramids of Latin America for 15 years, said of the stonework found Wednesday.

"We can see the surface is perfectly flat. This is the crucial material proof that we are talking pyramids,'' he said.

Osmanagic believes the structure will prove to be 722 feet high, or a third taller than Egypt's Great Pyramid of Giza.

The huge stone blocks discovered Wednesday appeared to be cut in cubes and polished.

"It is so obvious that the top of the blocks, the surface is man-made,'' Osmanagic said.

Earlier research on the hill, known as Visocica, found that it has 45-degree slopes pointing toward the cardinal points and a flat top. Under layers of dirt, workers discovered a paved entrance plateau, entrances to tunnels and large stone blocks.

Satellite photographs and thermal imaging revealed two other, smaller pyramid-shaped hills in the VisokoValley.

Last week's excavations began with a team of rescue workers from a nearby coal mine being sent into a tunnel believed to be part of an underground network connecting the three pyramid-shaped hills.

They were followed by archeologists, geologists and other experts who emerged from the tunnel later to declare that it was certainly man-made.

The work at Visoko, about 20 miles northwest of Sarajevo, will continue for about six months. Two experts from Egypt are due to join the team in mid-May.

"It will be a very exciting archaeological spring and summer,'' Osmanagic said.http://www.livescience.com/history/060420_ap_bosnia_pyramid.html

Friday, April 21st, 2006, 02:28 PM
After looking at that image from your link, Zyklop, I can't help thinking that the claim that pyramids in South America built the same and of the sun and moon are "just a coincidence" is stretching things too far.

I saw an article yesterday where they have discovered a group of headless skeletons in Henan Province in China that are from decaptitated prisoners of war. One warrior is six foot tall.

Here is the story:


Thursday, May 4th, 2006, 01:15 PM
The Bosnian pyramid circus gains a few more clowns as people rush to make accusations of racism while photographs emerge of a primitive concrete covering of constructed slabs under the soil over the pointy hill.

Here (http://www.archaeology.org/online/features/osmanagic/) Mr Rose gets all cross and nasty and decides the ancient Illyrians were too thick to build pyramids and that the Bosnians may just be a bunch of racists looking for a political high.

And here (http://www.bosnianpyramids.org/) are the latest photos of what is obviously a concrete slab covering of a pointy hill. There are also tunnels and maps and graphs and more.

Here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrians) is a bit about who the Illyrians may have been.

If it is a hoax then it's a very elaborate and expensive one and has a lot of scientists hanging around to witness the findings. We shall have to wait and see. Very interesting on many fronts in any case.

Gorm the Old
Thursday, May 4th, 2006, 02:23 PM
I think that it is important to recognize that "concrete" does not necessarily imply "modern". The Romans used it extensively. The Pantheon in Rome is built entirely of concrete except for a thin facing of marble slabs which were stripped off in the Middle Ages. Roman concrete was made from volcanic ash from Puteoli (modern Pozzuoli).
I am unfamiliar with the geology of Bosnia, but, if a similar volcanisc ash, a natural form of Portland cement, occurs there, there is no reason to suppose that the Illyrians could not have discovered its uses and made concrere from it.

Thursday, May 4th, 2006, 03:04 PM
Yes, Egil, if my history of art course memory still serves me, the Romans used it extensively and were brilliant civil engineers.

The Assyrians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_people) and Babylonians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylonian) used clay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clay) as cement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cement) in their concretes. The Egyptians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian) used lime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lime_%28mineral%29) and gypsum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gypsum) cement. In the Roman Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire), concrete made from Quicklime (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quicklime), pozzolanic ash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pozzolanic_ash)/pozzolana (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pozzolana) and an aggregate made from pumice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumice) was very similar to modern portland cement concrete.

Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete)

If you look at the large slabs from the Bosnian Pyramids web site pictures (which are nice and clear and large) the conglomeration seems to be of crushed stone and some binding matrix. The slabs were possibly not the actual decorative surface. They may have had a better looking surface finish that has disappeared or been used by others as building material. The Egyptian pyramids had polished granite sides which were taken away for other purposes so what we see there today is but a shadow of what was.

Also, the Bosnian jobs are not pyramids built from scratch as the ones in Egypt and South America but have utilized the hill shape and covered this, then tunnelled into the body of the hill, presumably for tombs or rituals.

There seems to be more there than meets the jaundiced eye, but the proliferation of scientists is a relief to me as I cannot stand it when they start all this wacky stuff about space visitors and so on. We had that nonsense with Stonehenge and it has been proven that the stone circles were definitely built by humans (well, obviously they were, but cranks persist) and of course whatever is under the hill in Bosnia will be very human and very interesting. Notwithstanding the snotty rumblings from the left leaning establishment that can't wait to trash anything that may make ancient European civilization not only look possible but seem a notch or several above grunting and slurping. :rolleyes:

Gorm the Old
Friday, May 5th, 2006, 01:23 AM
Yes, that's what i was driving at, Sigrid. I don't know if the Illyrians had a source of suitable volcanic ash for natural cement, but. if they did, it would not be at all surprising if they discovered how to use it and how to make concrete,and that, probably without assistance from Atlanteans or space aliens.

Friday, May 5th, 2006, 06:00 AM
And we know from Stonehenge that if they didn't have what they wanted, no matter how difficult this was, they found a way to get it back home. The ancient Britons even floated the great stone blocks part of the way and there are the remains of a Welsh family who had been involved in helping to bring the special stones from Wales. What this also proves is that these structures had such significance that people who knew what they wanted were willing to go far and pay much to obtain it. Also the chieftain of Stonehenge (the Amesbury Archer who can be found here (http://beehive.thisisdorset.co.uk/default.asp?WCI=SiteHome&ID=8259&PageID=49897)) whose remains have been found appears to be from what is now Switzerland. At least that is what I can remember from the last information about the deposits in this teeth.

Also of interest in these ancient stone building exercises is America's Mystery Hill which can be found here (http://www.crystalinks.com/mysteryhill.html).

Friday, May 5th, 2006, 03:06 PM
Bosnian Pyramids: Great Discovery or Colossal Hoax?
By Heather Whipps (http://www.livescience.com/blogs/author/heatherwhipps)
Special to LiveScience
posted: 04 May 2006
04:30 pm ET

It's either one of the greatest archaeological discoveries of our time, or man has made a giant pyramid out of a molehill.

In the wake of recent news (http://www.livescience.com/history/060420_ap_bosnia_pyramid.html) that evidence of colossal pyramids had been found in the small Bosnian town of Visoko, many in the archaeological community are speaking out and dismissing both the discovery and the man who made it, businessman Semir Osmanagic.

Some critics have gone as far as to call the pyramid an absurd publicity stunt.
But Osmanagic stands by his claim.

"They are jealous," Osmanagic told LiveScience in a telephone interview. "These people are going crazy because they've been teaching students that these were cavemen, and all of a sudden they are finding complex structures here."

[B]Something is there

Osmanagic first noticed the irregularly shaped hills (http://www.livescience.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=060420_bosnia_pyrami d_02.jpg&cap=Archaeologists+and+other+experts+dig ging+on+the+sides+of+a+hill+near+Visoko, +Bosnia+uncovered+geometrical+stone+bloc ks+which+they+believe+are+the+outer+laye r+of+the+pyramid.+Credit%3A+AP+Photo) on a trip to the town, located 18 miles north of Sarajevo, in April of 2005. Preliminary digging uncovered mysterious slabs (http://www.livescience.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=060420_bosnia_pyrami d2_02.jpg&cap=The+uncovered+stone+blocks+are+belie ved+to+be+part+of+structure+that+is+abou t+as+third+as+tall+as+Egypt%27s+Great+Py ramid+of+Giza.+Credit%3A+AP+Photo) in a stone not native to the immediate area. Further excavation of the hills in April of this year, along with the incredible announcement that one would be much larger than the great pyramid of Cheops at Giza (http://www.space.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=031006_mm_pyramids_0 2.jpg&cap=The+latest+astronaut+photo+of+the+py ramids+was+taken+in+August+2003+with+a+K odak+DCS760+digital+camera+equipped+with +an+800mm+lens.), Egypt, prompted the most recent news release.

Satellite images, thermal analysis and radar studies have been performed at the site, all independently confirming the existence of pyramid-shaped architecture, according to Osmanagic. More importantly, he said, the tests suggest that the layout could not have been man-made.

Photos released by the media and made available on Osmanagic's website show a series of stone plates (http://www.livescience.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=060420_bosnia_pyrami d2_02.jpg&cap=The+uncovered+stone+blocks+are+belie ved+to+be+part+of+structure+that+is+abou t+as+third+as+tall+as+Egypt%27s+Great+Py ramid+of+Giza.+Credit%3A+AP+Photo) buried just beneath the top layer (http://www.livescience.com/php/multimedia/imagedisplay/img_display.php?pic=060420_bosnia_pyrami d_02.jpg&cap=Archaeologists+and+other+experts+dig ging+on+the+sides+of+a+hill+near+Visoko, +Bosnia+uncovered+geometrical+stone+bloc ks+which+they+believe+are+the+outer+laye r+of+the+pyramid.+Credit%3A+AP+Photo) of soil and vegetation. Despite the tests and pictures, some archaeologists aren't convinced by his claims.

"Clearly there are voids or something similar in the rock, but that is a long way from saying these are man-made," said Anthony Harding, president of the European Association of Archaeologists.

The pyramids could be upwards of 12,000 years old, Osmanagic has deduced, based on geological knowledge of the area. That is a main point of contention for specialists concerned with the archaeology in the Balkan region.

"Europe was in the late Upper Paleolithic at this point and no one was building anything except flimsy huts," Harding said.

Workers at Visoko are spending this dig season sending twelve probing wells into different spots on the hill. Radiocarbon dating on organic material taken from the site may be performed as early as this fall, Osmanagic said.

No formal training

Whatever the outcome of the tests, critics also charge that the media did not do enough research into the background of Osmanagic, who has no formal archaeological training.

"A self-described archaeologist, who believes the Maya (http://www.livescience.com/history/060105_maya_writing.html) and others are descended from Atlanteans ... has been accepted as a legitimate researcher by many news outlets," writes Archaeology magazine online editor Mark Rose, in reference to Osmanagic's somewhat unorthodox interpretation of the Mayan culture found in his book, "The World of the Maya" (Gorgias Press, Euphrates imprint, 2005). The Bosnian spent fifteen years studying pyramids throughout the world and much of that time was in Mexico and Central America.

Many of those conducting the fieldwork at Visoko are local volunteers, not professionals. Experts worry that the often arduous scientific process is being eschewed in favor of some quick publicity for the country of Bosnia-Herzegovina, which has been hungry for good press after years of civil conflict dogged it in the 1990s.

"It adds insult to injury when rich outsiders can come in and spend large sums pursuing their absurd theories (the construction of a colossal pyramid so large that it dwarfs even those of Egypt or Mesoamerica? 12,000 years ago?), in ways that most other countries would never countenance," Harding wrote in an April 25 letter to the editor of The London Times.

Work is slated to continue at Visoko through at least 2010, by which time Osmanagic believes the research will have vindicated his theories. Meanwhile, he isn't worried that what he's found does not mesh with current thinking.

"We laugh at the people who said that the world was flat, and they laughed at Galileo," he said. "The history books will just have to be rewritten from scratch, that's all."

Thursday, May 25th, 2006, 07:27 PM
Egyptian expert confirmed that stone blocks are man-made

One of the leading Egyptian pyramid experts, Ali Abdallah Berekat, geologist at the Egyptian Mineral Resources Authority, confirmed that the stone blocks excavated on the Visocica hillside – Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun - are not natural, but man-made creations.
Semir Osmanagic confirmed Berekat’s statement in the interview given to the FENA News Agency and said that Berekat explained how the stone blocks were made. According to the expert coming from the land of pyramids, the stone blocks were molded.

Also, Osmanagic said that the Egyptian expert explained the purpose of the white building material excavated on the north side of the Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun.

“Ali Abdallah Berekat PhD is sure that white building material is actually connective material, or the same type of material used to build the walls of the Egyptian temples”, Osmanagic said and added that the statement made by the Egyptian expert is a very important verification of the hypothesis about the existence of the pyramids.

Source (http://www.bosnianpyramids.org/index.php?id=20&lang=en)


No matter what anyone says, the idea that it is a "hoax" seems unlikely as the entire hill appears to be clad with a thick constructed layer of stonework that does not look anything like a medieval fortress (as some have suggested) nor does it seem to have the proportions of a fortress. The thing looks like one of the largest man-made claddings of a piece of the landscape in the ancient world and no matter how you look at it the photos are truly astounding. What on earth is really going on here?





Friday, May 26th, 2006, 05:16 AM
Truly awesome discovery.

Tuesday, June 6th, 2006, 09:26 AM
Step aside, peasants, the masters of the universe (or of the UNESCOverse) have expressed an interest in trashing your pyramid idea. Let them in or they'll call you freaks and racists .... Well, they may just want to do that anyway but they need authority now as things are looking a little too hot way over in the land of the Illyrians and the left is feeling ... left out.

UNESCO team to probe Bosnia's "ancient pyramid"

SARAJEVO (Reuters) - Bosnia's mystery pyramid will now be probed and inspected by a team of experts from the U.N. Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization.

"We shall send a UNESCO (http://search.news.yahoo.com/search/news/?p=UNESCO) expert team to Visoko to determine exactly what it is all about," UNESCO Secretary General Koichiro Matsuura said in an interview published on Monday in Dnevni Avaz newspaper.
Amateur archaeologist Semir Osmanagic has caused a stir with his find, although local and European archaeologists denounce it as nonsense.

Geologist Aly Abd Barakat, an Egyptian researcher sent by Cairo to assist Osmanagic's team last month, has said that the Visocica hill did appear to be a primitive man-made pyramid of uncertain age.

Barakat said huge stone blocks found on the three sides of the hill used the same type of artificial cement used in ancient Egyptian pyramids.

Osmanagic's team is also investigating the Pljesevica hill -- which he calls the Moon Pyramid -- as well as underground tunnels he believes connect three pyramids.

The researchers have also found a sandstone monolith in the underground tunnel with enigmatic symbols engraved on it, which will be sent to Egypt for analysis.
Osmanagic, who studied pyramids in central America for the past 15 years, said that satellite and radar analyses have revealed the perfect geometry of Visocica and precise alignment of its sides with four cardinal points.

Source (http://fullcoverage.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060605/sc_nm/bosnia_pyramid_dc_1;_ylt=AtBqBWc8FgkFJOJ nhENoLq1FeQoB;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlY wMlJVRPUCUl)

Friday, June 9th, 2006, 11:01 PM
British expert nixes Bosnia pyramid claim

A British archaeologist on Friday rejected claims that a hill in central Bosnia is a man-made structure that many local residents insist is a pyramid.

Professor Anthony Harding, who is president of the European Association of Archaeologists, visited Visocica hill and said the formation was natural.

"Not any evidence at all has been found" to support the claim the site would be an archaeological site, he said.

No pyramids are known in Europe, and there are no records of any ancient civilization on the continent ever attempting to build one.

The pyramid theory was launched by an amateur researcher last year but it has been disputed by a number of local and international experts, who claim that at no time in Bosnia's history did the region have a civilization able to build monumental structures. They say the hill is simply a strange natural formation.

Nevertheless, Semir Osmanagic, the amateur Bosnian archaeologist who has been investigating Latin American pyramids for 15 years, organized excavations to Visocica, about 20 miles northwest of Sarajevo, in April.

His team — made up mostly of volunteers, found that the 2,120-foot hill has 45-degree slopes pointing toward the cardinal points and a flat top. Under layers of dirt, workers discovered a paved entrance plateau, entrances to tunnels and large stone blocks.

Egyptian geologist Aly Abd Alla Barakat, who arrived in May to check on Osmanagic's claims said the structure is "man made" and worth investigating.

"My opinion is that this is a type of pyramid, probably a primitive pyramid," said Barakat, a geologist from the Egyptian Mineral Resource Authority.

However, Harding, who said he visited the site briefly on Thursday and looked at the same stone blocks Barakat said were man made, said on Friday they were a natural formation.

"I've seen the site, in my opinion it is entirely natural," he told reporters in Sarajevo. Harding did not visit other sites in the area which Osmanagic and Barakat say are further evidence of the existence of pyramids in Bosnia, such as a tunnel leading to the top of Visocica or a stone pavement made of geometrically regular shaped pieces.

Harding said that although he had not seen the stone pavement, by looking at photographs, "I would not believe it to be archaeological. It looks to me as a natural stone pavement." He did not visit the tunnel either.

But Barakat, an expert in the stone blocks used to build ancient pyramids in Egypt, has recommended more experts visit the site. An archaeologist from Egypt is scheduled to visit the site this month.

The theory of a pyramid has sparked intense interest in Bosnia, with local residents seeking to cash in on the craze; restaurants serve meals in triangle-shaped plates, artisans make pyramid-shaped wooden key-chains, shopkeepers sell T-shirts saying "I have a pyramid in my backyard."

When asked to comment on Harding's statement, Mario Gerussi, the director of Osmanagic's team leading the excavations, said the team had not been informed of the timing of Harding's visit and that none of the staff at the site had seen him there.

Harding specializes in the European Bronze Age, and has led excavations in Poland and the Czech Republic as well as in Britain.

Source (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060609/ap_on_sc/bosnia_pyramid_controversy;_ylt=AlRRPa5W s2AecmmmW5QsNWkPLBIF;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szaz kxBHNlYwN0bQ--)

Saturday, June 10th, 2006, 06:16 AM
Apparently Professor Anthony Harding thinks Aly Abd Alla Barakat of Egypt is an idiot.

The stone cladding of the hill looks anything but natural. If you look at the images close up they appear to be stones fixed in some kind of matrix. Stone steps and tunnels and platforms do not tend to construct themselves.

It seems that the only way Europeans who are not stark raving lefties can obtain any scientific co-operation on anything that does not fit the New Age bill is to go to other countries where this mental disease is not present.

It really doesn't matter as yet what the clad hills are or who made them or who could or could not have made them. They are there and therefore must be investigated. This used to be the mindset of scientists in the western tradition but apparently no longer and especially when they come from Britain. Britain is becoming Stalinised to an alarming degree and its academics are starting to represent an arrogant elite of know it alls who constantly tell everyone else where to get off the bus. Maybe a little Egyptian co-operation would be a breath of fresh air. The Egyptians do not seem to have a complex about Bosnia's pointy hill.

I personally hope the hill does turn out to be something because these people deserve a good kick up the rear end for being so derogatory about it. This from the world's great "liberal humanists", mind you. :eek At first they followed the traditional policy of "ignore it and it will go away". It didn't go away so they have sent emissaries from the shining tower to pronounce the Bosnians a bunch of cave people who can't have a pointy hill and who are falsely ascribing large seemingly man-made slabs, tunnels and flights of steps to flights of their imaginations instead.

In view of this childish response by so-called professionals, one can't help wondering how many other discoveries they might have deliberately covered up in the past. How many potential DNA studies have they dismissed as impossible or unobtainable? How many things have they just ignored and removed or reburied? Can we trust these people? Has their ideology taken over their intellect? Are they really as "humanist" as they say they are?

Maybe the Egyptians will be able to expose them. In fact I'd be more excited about seeing Aly Abd Alla Barakat and friends take Professor Harding and his comrades in arms down a peg more than I'd be in the pointy hill actually turning out to be pyramid. After all, the hill is innocent, but some of the people fighting over it seem to be guilty of something. Time will tell.

Even if it is a huge hoax, the nasty dismissive response will live long after the hill has returned to slumber with its secrets.

Sunday, June 11th, 2006, 06:37 AM
What bugs me is the unusual nature of some of the findings that make the scene as simply a "natural formation of the rock" a little dubious. Geologists and others are needed to examine these things scientifically.

This site has many interesting pictures:


This one, for example, makes the "natural formation" explanation look a little unnatural:


As does this one of what they think may be a paved walkway. It certainly looks terribly contrived for a natural formation, but only geologists could tell you:


And these????


Check out the site above and see what you think. Something a little odd going on, it seems.

Sunday, June 11th, 2006, 09:56 AM
Stone blocks believed by Bosnian researchers to be part of Europe's first pyramid are nothing but a natural formation, European experts said after examining the hillside site near Sarajevo.

"My opinion and the opinion of my colleagues is what we saw was entirely geological in nature," said Anthony Harding, head of the European Association of Archaeologists.

Harding, a professor of archaeology at the University of Exeter in Britain, was speaking here after a brief visit Thursday to the hills near Visoko, a town some 30 kilometres (19 miles) north of Sarajevo, where excavation work has been taking place since April.

"Further work of the same kind would simply produce the same results. I don't think it would change any view about what the nature of the hill is," he told reporters.

The excavations on two pyramid-shaped hills covered by vegetation near Visoko were initiated by Semir Osmanagic, a self-styled Bosnian explorer.

Osmanagic has said he believes that the hills hide the first pyramids to have been discovered in Europe, claiming they were built many thousands of years ago by an unknown civilisation.

While most Bosnians are hopeful that pyramids will be found, a group of the country's archaeologists and historians have dismissed Osmanagic's mission as a "farce".

So far experts have unearthed a number of large stone blocks at several locations on the larger of the two hills and part of a surface paved with regularly shaped small stone blocks on the other.

"You'd be surprised how many natural stone formations can look as if they are man-made," Harding said of the findings.

However earlier on Friday, an Egyptian geologist working with the Bosnian researchers said that the "structure" was a pyramid similar to those in his homeland.

"I believe it is a pyramid," Aly Abd Alla Barakat, of the Egyptian Mineral Resources Authority, told AFP.

Listing the evidence for his claim, Barakat said the sides of the hill were "precisely oriented" towards the four points of the compass and that stone slabs discovered at the site had been "polished by man".

"The white stuff I found between the blocks could be a glue. It is very similar to that we have found in the Giza pyramids," he said.

He called for a massive international research project on the site.

Barakat said he had sent a report on the site to one of the world's leading Egyptologists, Zahi Hawass, who had recommended him to the foundation leading the excavation work.

Source (http://www.physorg.com/news69133877.html)

Monday, June 12th, 2006, 02:07 PM
The rocks do look like conglomerate but did you know they found a skeleton? :D


Monday, June 12th, 2006, 08:22 PM
The rocks do look like conglomerate but did you know they found a skeleton? :D


This picture is like the picture of the Roswell alien.. :P :D
Any other source than the tourist website of the region where the "pyramid" is located?

Tuesday, June 13th, 2006, 05:40 AM
As I am not connected with this fiasco, no. They said the skeleton was taken to London. It is no more irritating than the Kennewick man or anything else. There is no way of finding anything out and that in itself is ridiculous. If there is a skeleton where is it and what is it? If there are archaeological discoveries on the pointy hill, like tunnels and stone spheres and slabs with odd markings then why not just say what they are and send out experts?

It looks like the pointy hill may have been a mine as they have found what look like ventilation tunnels that connect the hills and these are hollowed out of the conglomerate rock. But that would depend on whether there is any ore in it. No one has said a word so we don't know and can't speculate. There is a legend supposedly of a hill beneath which is an "eggshell" covering, etc. The only place you can get any info is the "pyramid" site itself. If I could get anything anywhere else I would, but they have all dismissed it and aren't interested in any of the other things that are being dug out that are interesting, no matter what time they come from.

As I do not believe in space aliens and conspiracy theories, I am naturally only interested in what is in the hill and why. I am also worried about the environmental damage digging up a hill will cause. The site has no authoritative control. I suspect that because it is in Bosnia the left sees it as a racist enterprise and probably has hallucinations of Slobodan Milosevic haunting the hill.

Anyway, it is an ancient site and anything ancient interests me. The tunnels were made for a reason as they must have been dug out of the rock. Why are they there? Are they ancient escape tunnels? Apparently the hill echoes so it must have a crust of conglomerate that causes vibrations made by blows and other sounds to be heard through the tunnels on the other side. I don't know and no one seems to care. All they care about is the medieval town on top of the hill.

Monday, June 19th, 2006, 09:41 PM
It has spawned a T-shirt, souvenir and hotel industry, drawn thousands of visitors and volunteers every weekend, and become a rare symbol of national unity in a country riven by ruinous sectarian war.

Last week, it won the backing of Unesco, the world's foremost educational and cultural body.

There is just one thing missing from Bosnia's so-called Pyramid of the Sun, acclaimed by some as the most important archaeological discovery in Europe for more than a century - a pyramid.

Despite the fact that Semir Osmanagic, who claims to have discovered it, has no formal archaeological training and believes, among other things, that the South American Mayans descended from visitors from outer space, more people apparently want to believe his theory that Bosnia is home to giant pyramids than to debunk it.

Mr Osmanagic claims that a pyramid-shaped mountain outside the town of Visoko, near Sarajevo, conceals a 12,500-year-old structure that pre-dates the pyramids of ancient Egypt, making this corner of Europe the cradle of modern civilisation.

Despite ridicule of the notion by the world's archaeological authorities, scientists and historians, volunteers pour into Bosnia's "Valley of the Pyramids" to help to excavate the find of the millennium.

Bosnia's answer to Indiana Jones is welcomed by adoring embraces from locals whose economy has been rejuvenated by the excavations. His belief is so strong that he has persuaded local authorities and the Bosnian President, Sulejman Tihic, to back him.

Last week Mr Osmanagic - who has written books on subjects as diverse as out-of-body experiences and the Freemasons - pulled off another triumph as Unesco pledged to send a team of archaeologists to examine and help to excavate the site.

But the chief of Unesco's culture section, Marie-Paule Roudil, said there was more to Bosnia's pyramids than mere archaeology.

"Unesco has already demonstrated, during the implementation of its activities in Bosnia and Herzegovina, willingness to support all positive and reconciliation activities, aimed at increasing… mutual understanding and cultural co-operation."

On top of a 2,120ft hill that towers over Visoko, which has been renamed locally the Pyramid of the Sun, Mr Osmanagic was delighted that Unesco was coming. He suggests that at least five hills in the valley were built by a mysterious civilisation 12,500 years ago.

"People identify with what we are doing here because they know we are not elitist scientists. Everyone can join in," he said. "We employ about 50 people on the site but we get hundreds of volunteers coming in every week.

''We have brought the first good news here in a long time and only conservative and narrow-minded scientists are unable to recognise that. Local archaeologists are mostly driven by envy and the international ones don't want to accept the fact that civilisation spread from here to them and not the other way around."

Mr Osmanagic, who also runs a machine tools company in Houston, Texas, said: "This project means tourism will boom and Bosnia will open up to the world." There is no doubt the 46,000-strong community near the pyramids has profited from the influx of visitors, with shops offering an array of tacky pyramid souvenirs and T-shirts.

Critics, including the British expert Anthony Harding, the president of the European Association of Archaeologists, who visited recently, say the excavation is harming academic science. He said: "The whole thing is a total absurdity.

There is some genuine archaeology on the hill and I'm told it's medieval, possibly Bronze Age or Roman. But the speculation that there could be a 12,000-year-old structure beneath is a complete fantasy and anyone with basic knowledge of archaeology or history should recognise that."

The lack of evidence appears not to bother most Bosnians, who are more interested in the economic impact and the unifying appeal of the pyramid idea. Hamza Baksic, 62, said: "If Osmanagic can get money flowing in, why not let him dig?"

Source (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/06/18/wpyramid18.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/06/18/ixnews.html)

Tuesday, June 20th, 2006, 05:37 AM
First there is a pyramid, then there is no pyramid, then there is (to mess up the lyrics of one of Donovan's songs).

But that's not all, folks, that was the pyramid of the sun. Now they have discovered a "wall" leading to a "tomb" in the pyramid of the moon. (And Professor Harding et al are no doubt biting themselves all over at this flagrant flouting of their esteemed discipline and the prostituting of the pyramidal tart to the world as archaeology for everyone becomes a national sport and people who have done nothing but hate one another and fight for many years are now filled with hope and a sense of the fantastic. Kinda makes old Prof Harding look like a real spoil sport, doesn't it?

Won't it be disappointing if there is no pyramid. Won't it be devastating for some if there is. Or maybe it's those darned Romans again. There is a myth or legend about the hill that decribes it as mysterious and covered by an "eggshell" that must never be broken. :D

18 June 2006

Latest discovery proves pyramid theory

A press conference held earlier today (Sunday) at the Bosnian Pyramid of the Moon puts “beyond doubt” the existence of a pyramid at the site, says the Archeological Park: Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun (APBPS).

The Pljesevica Hill was previously named the Bosnian Pyramid of the Moon by the APBPS Foundation. Experts from the Foundation have now revealed the discovery of a vertical wall that forms part of the Pyramid of The Moon.

Lamia el-Hadidi (Conservation Specialist, Egypt) assumes that the wall forms part of a tomb belonging to the pyramid. She pointed out that the wall is clearly manmade, comprising blocks that have been cut by man, refined and used to build this vertical wall.

Prof.Dr.Ric.Geol. Dario Andretta, chairman of the Humanitarian University for the Multidisciplinary International Culture (Rome), announced that this evidence puts beyond doubt the existence of a true pyramid at this site.

Experts from APBPS expect to have further announcements about the nature of the wall that has been discovered in the next two to three days. Excavations will now continue to take place to the left, right and above the wall. The team has also discovered steps which they say probably lead into the tomb.

Source (http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/index_files/News.html)

Tuesday, June 20th, 2006, 06:28 AM
This whole topic is getting so lame - but good for the Bosnian tourism. Next week they'll come up with an alien theory. I am sure.

Tuesday, June 20th, 2006, 06:42 AM
The whole thing is grounded on one. Osmanagic believes the builders are from Atlantis and that the Atlanteans are from the stars. I'm not interested in what he thinks about space aliens I am interested in what the hills may have been used for as they are interconnected with tunnels that seem to be man made.

I won't post any more if this topic is boring now. I just thought it was something to lighten up the bad news machine that is the world right now. :)

Tuesday, June 20th, 2006, 07:29 PM
The whole thing is grounded on one. Osmanagic believes the builders are from Atlantis and that the Atlanteans are from the stars. I'm not interested in what he thinks about space aliens I am interested in what the hills may have been used for as they are interconnected with tunnels that seem to be man made.

I won't post any more if this topic is boring now. I just thought it was something to lighten up the bad news machine that is the world right now. :)
I don't think it's boring. :)

Tuesday, June 20th, 2006, 08:03 PM
Oh, please let it be a pyramid or something really annoying so Professor Harding and his band of insufferably stuck up buttwipes can eat crow

Sunday, June 25th, 2006, 09:45 AM
Sorry, can't resist this: latest news of the pyramids in Bosnia from that Egyptian fiend Professor Harding has no interest in. :D

24 June 2006
Barakat: ‘This is man-made pyramid’

The two Egyptian scientists working at the Bosnian pyramids - geologist Barakat and archeologist Lamia El Hadidi – have made some of their findings public prior to completing their work at the site. They conclude that there are ancient man-made structures in the Visocica Hill region.

When he first arrived in Bosnia, geologist Barakat said that Visocica Hill was probably ‘some kind of primitive pyramid’. After more than a month working at the site, his opinion remains unchanged.

Barakat said, “For me, as a scientist and geologist, there’s still no doubt that this is man-made. I think that humans cut, polished, reshaped and formed stone blocks {that form the pyramid), bringing them here and adding them to the existing hill in order to give the shape of a pyramid to the hill.”

Archaeologist El Hadidi added that a large archaeological site has been found on the so-called Pyramid of the Moon, near to the Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun. She said they were unable, at this stage, to date the site, saying that further research is needed. However, she confirmed earlier conclusions that this site also represents a pyramid. “It is really impossible that nature creates shapes like this. Maybe one, but not three or four sides of the hill as we have here. There is still a lot of work to be done here, if we want to unveil all the secrets of this valley.”

Scepticism about the existence of the pyramids remains within parts of the scientific community. This may be partly because the site in Bosnia does not represent our traditional image of pyramids - as in Egypt - but a different kind of structure where stones have been placed around an existing hill to form the shape of a pyramid.

A complex of manmade tunnels has also been found at the site. It has been suggested that the tunnels may connect the three pyramids. In one of the tunnels, a large polished monolith has been found with unknown carved inscriptions (http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/Excavations_files/Tunnels.html) including arrows and a shape similar to our letter ‘E’.


Sunday, June 25th, 2006, 12:35 PM
In one of the tunnels, a large polished monolith has been found with unknown [/FONT][/COLOR]carved inscriptions (http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/Excavations_files/Tunnels.html) including arrows and a shape similar to our letter ‘E’.

Oh Gods! :O


Epsilon Team

The Epsilon Team (In Greek: Ομάδα Έψιλον, Omada Epsilon) is an urban legend about an imaginary secret society consisting of an elite team of Greek engineers, academics, pilots, powerful businessmen and politicians etc. manufacturing and piloting UFOs and supposedly working for major international forces or even secretly ruling the United States of America.

First coined by a Ioannis Fourakis, this term was then used by Anestis Keramidas, Gerasimos Kalogerakis, Kyriakos Velopoulos and a few other imaginative writers in a series of eschatologist, racially supremacist, messianic books, which have now formed a complex mythos.


Their symbol is a Delphic Epsilon, looking like two Epsilons connected back to back and considered to appear on their "UFOs" and on ancient Greek and Inca monuments as well. Their "UFOs" are also supposed to have the word "Ελευθερία" (Freedom, in Greek) on them.

Coincidentally, in modern Greek, "Epsilon" is also the first letter of the words "Ελλάδα" and "Έλληνες"—Greece and Greeks (Hellenes), respectively—and generally of anything having to do with Hellenism and Greece. The Greek Alphabet in its current form (the ionion union-alphabet) was adopted in Athens in 403 bc, in different places at the latest in hellenism. Some different alphabets, as the original Athenian one, had a unique letter for the spiritus asper, namely H (spoken He), making H the first letter for Hellas in these Alphabets. So any criticism stating that E only became the initial letter for Ellas in modern times is simply not correct, although the notion of something like an ethnic symbol is truly absurd enough for those times.

Principles and purpose of the Epsilon Team

As stated by people proclaiming themselves as members or representatives of the Epsilon Team, they are briefly:

Spreading the influence of Greek culture all over the world.
Projecting and promoting all "positive aspects" of Greece and Greek arts, culture, language, civilization, etc. all over the world.
Restoring the ancient Greek moral values and way of life.
Uniting all of the people's world under the Apollonian Light (sic).
Pursue of perfection under the perspective of Apollonian Aesthetics (sic).
Military defence of Greece through secret, proprietary and exclusive science and technology.

Who believes in its existence?

Their existence is promoted by (mainly Greek) pseudohistorians and mystical nationalists as well as some ufologists.

Their Greek supporters like to present the "Epsilon Team" as a proof of the superiority of the Greek race and culture above all other cultures, by claiming that Ancient Greeks were of extraterrestrial, Hyperborean origins and had extremely advanced technology, now secretly discovered and studied by the "Epsilon Team", which is, if not of Greek origin, at least using "forbidden" and "top secret" Greek technology, either the result of rediscovering "ancient" technology or the work of scientists, members of the society.

History of the Epsilon team

No clear timeline of the Epsilon team can be traced, mainly because people who support its existence or claim to be members, connoisseurs or even its representatives all give very different and incoherent versions of the story.

Some of them claim that the Epsilon team has existed in some form since the first forms of Greek civilization, and that its members included ancient philosophers, historians, scientists, and politicians like Plato, Aristotle, Pericles, Socrates, and so on.

Others don't dwell into antiquity but claim that the "contemporary" form of the Epsilon team as a secret society dates back to the post World War II period, founded as a secret society by Greek scientists working in the United States and economically backed up by people like Aristotelis Onassis and others (mostly people already deceased at the moment of "acknowledgment").

An interesting view is that of the journalist G. Palmos, who dismisses any attempts at providing a definite timeline or description by simply stating that the Epsilon Team is more of an "eternal common Greek spiritual brotherhood" than a secret society or organized company of sort and thus has no timeline or traceable structure.

One of the few common points is however that the Epsilon team has always helped and protected the Greek People and culture through the centuries. However, all supporters fail to give a satisfactory answers and use elusive statements when asked to explain how the omnipotent Epsilon team could be absent during hardships such as the persecution of Greek pagans by the Christian church (which is well-documented in both Patrologia Graeca and Patrologia Latina, as well as the sermons of many ecclesiastical figures of a very high stature), the fall of Constantinople and the subsequent 400-year Ottoman dominion was imposed on Greece, when the burning of Smyrna took place in 1922 and when other minor or major ethnic problems like the Cyprus dispute or the Imia-Kardak crisis took place.

Possible reasons behind the legend

One possible explanation for the creation of the "Epsilon Team" story is to be found in the ultra-nationalistic exaggerations promoted by a part of the Greek occultist/mysticist press, which on one side fuel irrational fears of an emerging worldwide anti-Greek sentiment and on the other side obstentate, magnify and exaggerate the achievements and the "superiority" of all Greek civilization, people and culture, by mixing historical data with crypto-nationalistic, anti-Semitic and occultist elements.

Among those circles, the "Epsilon Team" is presented as the Greek equivalent of the Jewish Golem, a sort of secret weapon meant to "protect" the Greeks from all "enemies", like a discrete but tireless and powerful Guardian ready to smite the "barbarian hordes" which secretly lurk over the Greek people, in the best of cases. In part this idea was a response to Anti-Greek ideologies that apparently seem to be spreading throughout the world - see Anti-Hellenism - especially in North America and Israel. More specifically, the historical (or, rather, traditional) Israelo-Greek rivalry might be a major reason.

In the worst case, the "Epsilon Team" is viewed as a secret retaliation weapon meant to attack and destroy, for example, Turkey and Albania and anyone "threatening" the Greek people. Also, since there are some Anti-semitic ideas among those circles, the Epsilon Team is also viewed as a counterpart/competitor to the "Jewish lobbies" which supposedly rules the world, meant to estabilish the Greeks as the "chosen people".

Relatively recent indications that Anestis Keramidas happens to be very close to the Greek Orthodox Church (TV appearances where he claimed that the Greek Orthodox Church is the continuation of the Greek pantheon, attempts he made to identify Jesus with the Argonaut Jason), etc offer us another possible explanation: In recent years, some Greeks have started questioning the way in which Christianity was accepted by their ancestors (or imposed on them, according to the documentation provided by Ostrogorsky, Gibbon et al), and the identification of Hellenism and Orthodoxy. These persons have sometimes sought to revive the ancient Greek pagan religion, while others have become atheist.

Keramidas (followed, later, by Kalogerakis and Yannis Fragoulis) took the term "Epsilon Team" and concocted a messianiac and racially supremacist theory, on a "Judaeo-Christian" foundation, combined with the glory and gods' names of Ancient Greece, and an outlook on the nature of the Greek pantheon derived from the texts of Euhemerus, a minor and obscure philosopher who coined the idea that the Greek Pantheon was nothing but ancient kings and leaders, deified and worshipped, in an effort to convince others that it is perfectly all right for people to worship their leader as a god.

Epsilon Team in popular culture

Being an urban legend, the Epsilon Team has of course supporters and detractors, with the latter being far more numerous. The Epsilon Team is sometimes mentioned in conversations as a means of sarcasm or, when listening to alarming news about war, terrorism etc. At least one mockery song has been written about it, by a Greek music project named "Κόντρα" (Kontra), the lyrics clearly stating that the Epsilon Team is just bogus and nonsense.

The official Greek Orthodox Church, who has prominent activity in social and spiritual affairs, never mentioned anything about Epsilon, pro or against and it's likely that they never bothered about the subject. Religious (conservative) analysts and theologians however (who don't obligatory express the official Church's view) claim it's a hoax originated from Greek neo-pagans and fascist (anti-semitic) circles. On the contrary, Greek pagan circles are strongly opposed to the proliferation of this theory, which they consider nonsense, since they feel it bastardizes and distorts their ancestors' beliefs into a ridiculous mongrel.

People and publications

Most publications and people openly supporting the existence of the Epsilon team are currently found in Greece, and usually their interests are either mystical, nationalistic or both. A brief list of related publications:

The Greek "Ελληνόραμα" (Hellenorama) magazine, a monthly magazine featuring articles on the existence of Greek Language elements in Hawaiian or Australian Aboriginal languages (a claim made by a German linguistics professor named Nors S. Josephson in his book "Greek Linguistic Elements in the Polynesian Languages - Hellenicum Pacificum") and various pseudoscientific articles with no bibliographic references. While some of their claims are true, they are usually mixed and adulterated with irrationality.
The Greek "Τρίτο Μάτι" (Third Eye) monthly magazine, mostly focusing on mysticism, National Mysticism and conspiracy theories.
Several books, usually marketed only inside Greece and only by some particular bookstores. One of them is a book issued in 1998 by the publisher Dion (Thessaloniki) called "Omada Epsilon" (The Epsilon Team), by Anestis Keramidas. Some other books related to National Mysticism are published by the Greek publisher "Georgiades books" (see external links). Another epsilonist writers are Gerasimos Kalogerakis and Yannis Fragoulis.


Sunday, June 25th, 2006, 12:45 PM
Finally the prophecies are fulfiled, our brothers from Alpha Centauri are on their way back to Earth.


Sunday, June 25th, 2006, 12:53 PM
Do you suppose they could be ... Greek? ... :eek Is Arkon really Arkoniki? Is that strange old English bird coming back with them?