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Blutw÷lfin
Wednesday, March 29th, 2006, 07:44 AM
Does anyone know the history of the Vinland Flag? Resources that I have come across are more than funny, to be honest. Actually there's gossip that this Vinland flag

http://www.micetrap.net/flags/vinland.gif

was an invention by Pete Steele, the singer of ToN.

The flag for Vinnland, or more precisely "the people's technocratic republic of Vinnland" appears on the back of the tree latest albums of the Goth-Rockgroup Type O Negative as well on numerous t-shirts. The flag is supposed to symbolize the republic of Vinnland situated in north America. Vinnland and it's flag are the brain child of the hulking blackhaired frontman of the band Type O Negative: Peter Steele. Steele incorporated his idea's of paganism, left/right wing political flirtations and his own heritage (his mother was part Icelandic) into a concept of a repubic named after the first name the Vikings gave to north America: Vinland. The Vikings landed in New Foundland around 1000 a.d. and built a colony there.Steele takes this idea and tries to imagine what America would be like if the Vikings had actualy stayed, and built a civilisation there. Based on that he designed a new flag in a scandinavian cross patern and gives it his favorite colours: green, black and white (which coincedently remind me of the german war cross). The concept of the people's technocratic republic only apears once in the songtitle "The glorious liberation of the people's tecnocratic republic of Vinnland by the combined forces of the united territories of Europa". In one of his interviews Steele says that he thinks the world would be better off if it were governed by scientists, hence technocratic.

For more information see here (http://www.typeonegative.net/vinnland.html)

Sigrid
Wednesday, March 29th, 2006, 10:11 AM
BW - don't you love people who keep inventing flags? :rolleyes:

I have seen so many, all idiosyncratically labelled. They are like the people who keep re-inventing religion for us. Even more idiosyncratic. And the constant wheel of new age politics. Neo-nazi becomes Odalist, becomes ecological nationalist becomes Heathenish nationalist becomes angry, becomes confused. Then you get Christian nationalist, white Christian nationalist, Ku Klux Klan revivalist, Aryan Nations, Christian Identity, World Church of the Creator, Cosmotheist, godmen, becoming depleted by running out of incarnations. Then you get old right, new right, beyond left and right, conceptual nationalist, libertarian, becoming frustrated. Then white knights, crusaders, free masonic revivalists, racial revolutionaries, restorationists of various kinds and exhaustion through lack of patronage. Then you get the Wiccans. :runaway

Ălfhere
Wednesday, March 29th, 2006, 04:11 PM
BW - don't you love people who keep inventing flags? :rolleyes:

I have seen so many, all idiosyncratically labelled. They are like the people who keep re-inventing religion for us. Even more idiosyncratic. And the constant wheel of new age politics. Neo-nazi becomes Odalist, becomes ecological nationalist becomes Heathenish nationalist becomes angry, becomes confused. Then you get Christian nationalist, white Christian nationalist, Ku Klux Klan revivalist, Aryan Nations, Christian Identity, World Church of the Creator, Cosmotheist, godmen, becoming depleted by running out of incarnations. Then you get old right, new right, beyond left and right, conceptual nationalist, libertarian, becoming frustrated. Then white knights, crusaders, free masonic revivalists, racial revolutionaries, restorationists of various kinds and exhaustion through lack of patronage. Then you get the Wiccans. :runaway

Wow! You're a very perceptive woman Sigrid. :D It's like a whirlwind of identity crisis.

Sigrid
Wednesday, March 29th, 2006, 05:36 PM
It's all rather sad. I am trying to fit myself in there somewhere, lol. I was always just a boring old English nationalist. Little did I know what awaited me! :eek

klokkwerx
Thursday, April 20th, 2006, 01:08 AM
Does anyone know the history of the Vinland Flag? Resources that I have come across are more than funny, to be honest. Actually there's gossip that this Vinland flag

http://www.micetrap.net/flags/vinland.gif

was an invention by Pete Steele, the singer of ToN.

The flag for Vinnland, or more precisely "the people's technocratic republic of Vinnland" appears on the back of the tree latest albums of the Goth-Rockgroup Type O Negative as well on numerous t-shirts. The flag is supposed to symbolize the republic of Vinnland situated in north America. Vinnland and it's flag are the brain child of the hulking blackhaired frontman of the band Type O Negative: Peter Steele. Steele incorporated his idea's of paganism, left/right wing political flirtations and his own heritage (his mother was part Icelandic) into a concept of a repubic named after the first name the Vikings gave to north America: Vinland. The Vikings landed in New Foundland around 1000 a.d. and built a colony there.Steele takes this idea and tries to imagine what America would be like if the Vikings had actualy stayed, and built a civilisation there. Based on that he designed a new flag in a scandinavian cross patern and gives it his favorite colours: green, black and white (which coincedently remind me of the german war cross). The concept of the people's technocratic republic only apears once in the songtitle "The glorious liberation of the people's tecnocratic republic of Vinnland by the combined forces of the united territories of Europa". In one of his interviews Steele says that he thinks the world would be better off if it were governed by scientists, hence technocratic.

For more information see here (http://www.typeonegative.net/vinnland.html)
On some other forum I used to be in had the same subject about this flag, but it does seem to be the invention of ToN - Steele.

Secondly, I dont get what Sigrid is trying to say, what does that have to do with the price of rice in China? I think we are talking about this flag, not, Right - Left - Nazi and etc stuff. Dont take me wrong Sigrid, I am not jumping you, I am just sick of hearing Nazi - this - and - Nazi - that, it seems that allot of our Folk cant live past this chickenwinged guilt trip that the Jews have put out there. All IMO, no hard feelings.

Sigrid
Thursday, April 20th, 2006, 06:29 AM
Klokkwerx - I wasn't thinking of the actual Nazi party flag as that was a political flag and actually went into use for a while on a grand scale. I meant all these really oddball ideologies that idiosyncratic individuals suddenly decide to use to represent groups of people without asking them if they want to be so represented. There are quite a lot. I have nothing against an organisation with heraldic representation. I was thinking about people who decide to change a whole country's flag when they have a following of about seven and a half and they are making noises about ruling the world when their great day arrives.

Incidentally, I have not been brainwashed by any Jews. You must realise that WWII was an absolutely horrific incident that killed, maimed, traumatised and dispossessed millions of Europeans. My father fought in that war. He lost friends and had his legs smashed. Every time I see a neo Nazi shoving a German tank in my face on a web site or a stiff armed salute I feel not only grossly offended but also that I am being threatened. This makes me angry and this is counterproductive. I hope you understand this. It isn't doing solidarity between Europeans of right wing persuasions any good to keep resuscitating Hitler or national socialism, or funny versions of Christianity. Besides the fact that it is wholly unnecessary. That is why we are against it, not because of anything the Jews have to say. I am not interested in the Jews in any way whatsoever. As far as I am concerned they do not exist other than as a very small group of constantly annoying supremacist whiners.

Eisenmann
Thursday, April 20th, 2006, 07:10 AM
Don't mean to offend you, but - I'd say you should feel offended when seeing pictures of the 1940's British government and Mr. Churchill who had your father tormented in a war they desparately wanted to get off the ground in spite of peace talks, instead.:)

Ofcourse, I am a younger person, so I might look at things more black-and-white (no pun intended) than you do.. but that's my opinion of the matter. And yes - the thing that annoys me most about most Neo-Nazis is their lack of intelligence, which offends me too. For me, it is that they turn those men from the Thousand Year Reich to shame with their circusbearesque imitation-behaviour.

just my two cents.. don't shoot the pianist... ;)

Sigrid
Thursday, April 20th, 2006, 09:06 AM
Yes [s.o.s.] it is possibly because I come from a more direct experience of the people who fought in that war, not only because they fought in it but also because of the way in which they felt about their homelands and about their race and about their particular folk group. It was called patriotism and it was so powerful that they sacrificed themselves and left their families to go. It was voluntary for my father, he wasn't called up. It was in honour of his folk and so off he went into the desert where he learned a great deal and communicated this to me many years later after I had come into his life. I only appeared when he and my mother were forty. So I had the benefit of my own generation's philosophy and his.

He used to suffer constantly from pain so I lived with that pain too and watched him struggling to get out of chairs and as he grew older to hobble about using a crutch. Many of the boys from his childhood were killed. He took me to see the plaque on the sea wall dedicated to them. He fought the Italians. One of my Norse uncles was taken prisoner and marched across Italy. We have all their letters home to their families. I have my father's letters to my mother whom he had not yet married. They married after my father's truck went over a land mine in North Africa and he was trapped under the dashboard which broke both his legs at the knee. They sent him home on a hospital boat and he was unable to go back. This was two years into the war. They married and so the war became part of all of our lives whether we were part of it or not.

The whole of society was filled with men who had been marked and they were greatly respected. They were not considered to be "dupes" or fools for having offered their lives. This is such a great insult today that to start this with us is to look for very serious trouble. We cannot and will not spit on or question our people's loyalty to their legacy of freedom. Whether Herr Hitler wanted freedom or peace or to eat up Europe. The real life scenarios are different to the ones on the web sites of the glory boys who were not there and have swallowed all the hatred and racism that has become associated with this terrible time. I find their dismissal of our relatives who fought a dictator who was responsible for the deaths of millions of young men, and many women and children, to be utterly unacceptable. Especially when the people supporting Hitler today are not even Germans. How they can do this is beyond me. I, however, will not be indulging in any of this Nazi fanzine behaviour. It is basically unrelated, and becomes ever more so, to the real world of the 1930s and 40s all over the world.

What my generation did learn was that war is evil, destructive and serves no purpose if it is not purely defensive. The war on Iraq is proof of this. Once again, but in vastly smaller numbers, young men are being sent out to fight and die for a very questionable cause. But there are people who believe it's a just war. You always get these. They have no idea of what is really going on or that it is not in any way honourable or glorious to die like a dog with your mouth full of sand in a heat blasted desert thousands of miles from your home and family for someone's oil fantasies and another's democracy and religious conversion fantasies and for a little country that is occupying a larger country and causing Europeans to die for this. These young men, the strongest and best of any country, will not be coming home to have families. This alone, is a crime against their folk on the part of the grand war generals who sit around sticking pegs in maps and watching the war through digital technology as though they were playing a computer game - but with real soldiers and civilians.

I do understand why your generation feels so strongly about what seems to be the glorious Nazi Empire through the glass of the past and I understand that the sight of so many seemingly single minded people marching together and bearing folkish banners is a sight envied today and never seen anywhere except places like Korea. But that whole spectacle often hides a brutal enforcement that defeats a true folkish ideal. Often these soldiers are there because they have no choice. What starts out as great and inspiring often ends up as enslaving and tyrannical.

The folkish movement is not a militant movement in the same way that the Nazi movement was. It has no connections with Nazism. These have been thrust upon it by the neo Nazi and Christian crusader/Identity cults. They hate those like me. I have fought bitterly and rather savagely at times against them for years and they are very disrespectful towards anyone who will not join their racist and divisive ideology. Racism is not part of the folkish movement, racialism is. And there is a difference and it is a significant one. We do not sit around and insult people because of the way they look or on account of the things they cannot do, for whatever is supposedly lacking in their history or on account of their differing religions. That is racism. And I agree that a lot of modern national socialists have left all this behind and are struggling with those who are making them look bad. It's a huge problem.

However it isn't my problem as I am not a national socialist and will never be one. WWII must not guide my behaviour or I shall end up fighting with my own folk again. I refuse to fight them. If they insist, of course, then I shall take up arms. But it will be with great reluctance as this isn't the way we should be going.

I feel that the national socialist thing is causing the folkish movement to divide and in many cases to fight its own. That is because no matter what people say about a non-political stance, people need one or they have no direction. Besides which our countries are falling apart from liberal neglect. Other races and race mixed people are making moves on us from all directions and to me it is tragic that some war long over and done with is going to divide us at a time when we need to stand together on issues that no longer have anything to do with Jews or communists. Our battle ground is multiculturalism and the political forces of liberal and social democratic extremism practised and enforced by whites.

The people in Europe accused today of being actual communists are now not so but are multiculturalist social democrats, elitists with dangerous political and social agendas that have wandered far from any old style Marxism or socialism. Their enemies at the moment are their fellow whites, nationalists and people who are waking up to the extreme dangers of the kind of diversity that the masses have been taught is the source of "unity".

Today's world is overcrowded, technologically advanced on one hand and utterly backward on the other and these are being forced together in a scary marriage of opposites that can only result in chaos and catastrophe for whites. The third world is already in a state of collapse. Liberal and social democrats have let that chaos into the west and if it is not stopped dead in its tracks soon there will be no opportunity to do so without violent confrontation on one hand and dissolution on the other.

I think, in view of some of our differing modus operandi, that we should rather concentrate on the few things we have in common rather than the many ways in which we may differ on technicalities. People unite when they have basic common ground.

So what is this right now?

It is not moral, as many socialists will try and tell us. It is in fact racial. That is where it starts for us in this particular arena and lifetime. Whether they admit it or not, whether they attack us or not, whether they label us or not, the race of people known collectively as "white" and specifically as European, is going down the tubes. This is the direct result of enforced multiculturalism, interracial marriage and uncontrolled immigration. The latter is fuelled by economic forces and a changing economic balance from west to east, with a resulting migration of people out of the old economies into the new and a concomitant immigration of people from poverty stricken politically unstable third world countries into the welfare arms of liberal democracies that cannot support them but that are willing to commit suicide on an ideological whim.

After sheer racial or folk survival comes the survival of our European cultures, values and religions. The survival of our uniquely European worldview and the civilizations this has engendered. They are crumbling and falling as we speak and this is directly related to liberal humanism and the weakness of this ideology in political alliance with universalist socialism, and decaying Christianity.

In other words, all Europeans have only two things in common that need to motivate any successful opposition to our imminent demise: Race and culture and their social and political extensions of folk and nation.

If we could all unite powerfully on two simple and straightforward issues, we could turn our future around and regain our right to self determination. But powerful leaders are going to be needed to keep the chariot of the sun on the road so that the attempt to save something doesn't turn into the mythical burning of the world by inexperience and lack of expertise.

All small differences should be set aside. Two great lights, like the sun and the moon in our religions, should be set into the sky of our endeavour. Race and culture. The two inalienable rights of every folk in order to secure peace, freedom, prosperity and progress.

It's easy, really. I cannot understand why putting these two lights on and taking power should be proving to be so difficult. Unless it is because we need another motivating force to make them real. Non-negotiation on the issues of race and culture. Our peoples and our future are not negotiable. That is the clause that seals the deal. We cannot be expected to make concessions when we stand on the brink of dissolution.

So, to quote Tolkien's warriors at the edge of Mordor "where the shadows lie":

Stand men of the West.

Sigurd
Thursday, April 20th, 2006, 03:08 PM
BW - don't you love people who keep inventing flags? :rolleyes:

Neo-nazi becomes Odalist, becomes ecological nationalist becomes Heathenish nationalist becomes angry, becomes confused.

So you say that I'll become angry and confused, I've gone through all those stages before?! :eek ... :D
---------------------------------------------------

What I'd favour though is an alternative Austrian flag, in black and yellow (and maybe red) [the original national colors], with Odin's Cross straight over it...:D

Kidding aside, I won't go angry and confused, and I'm not a "Heathenish nationalist", but instead a Heathen and a Nationalist, our faith is not political, at least not from my perception ;)

Sigrid
Thursday, April 20th, 2006, 03:28 PM
I agree, our ancestral religion isn't political and a lot of us don't want to be political. I hate politics. But the problem is that we are being forced into supporting some or other political view, so like you, I am a pagan person who is a nationalist. :dance:

Eisenmann
Thursday, April 20th, 2006, 07:03 PM
Sigrid... I, as always, enjoy your lengthy posts and agree with most of what you say, and respect those parts I disagree with. I shall do my utmost to keep my fascination for Nazism et al. in line so I won't offend you, which is the last thing I'd want.:)

Sigrid
Thursday, April 20th, 2006, 07:37 PM
And I'll try not to make such lengthy posts. Ye gods, but I can blab. I am the nationalist movement's worst nightmare. Really, it's official. I've been making people exhausted for several years. I know because they have said so in desperation many times. Sorry. :( It's my academic training mixed with my gender, lol. All that forcing you to substantiate your own claptrap for all those years has made me worse than I am by nature.

Eisenmann
Thursday, April 20th, 2006, 08:43 PM
hahahah, no, not at all... I enjoy reading them!;)

klokkwerx
Thursday, April 20th, 2006, 08:59 PM
Sigrid,

Thank you for posting a more understandable explaination of what you meant and mean. I agree with you on allot of views when it comes to politics, I hate politics too!

What gripes me allot is just the Folk in our Faith that always use the neo-Nazi stuff to describe a virus within our Faith, but rarely describe the UniPagans (HAH, HAF, Unversalists, and other homo-rainbow fluffy pagans) as being the virus too; why?

IMO, the Nazi era of Deutschland was confusing, glorious, corrupt, and smart, sort of like what the US is today. It is undeniable that people died in the hands of the Nazis in many ways, just like the what the US is doing today, right? So there is no big difference when a country has the power, this is politics, and a power hungry machine. But why does the majority of our Folk use the Nazis as the sole vehicle to describe a virus when the Maoists and Russians killed more people seprately than the Nazis? I have a close answer, and that is, the Jews did a good job with their propaganda to kill the pride and turn hatred inward and to profit from it.

What we need to do as a Folkish Faith is to learn from our ancestors mistakes, not bash the dead for what they did and for what they knew at the time (thats not respectful). We need to live out of the horrific past (only learn from it), live the present, and look forward to the future. We need to show that our minds are free from foreign sorrows, and that our minds are free to grow.

I didnt mean to create this post a Nazi debating post.

Also, I would like to mention to others, there is a Folk-soul that others ignore and recognize, the study of this might explain a few answers about us from the past to the future.

klokkwerx
Friday, April 21st, 2006, 12:15 AM
Here is a link to some Vinland flag variants:

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.geocities.com/odinistlibrary/HeathenFlagofVinlandSmall.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.geocities.com/odinistlibrary/flagofalbion.htm&h=165&w=260&sz=6&tbnid=A9JnJxjGKGRXVM:&tbnh=67&tbnw=107&hl=en&start=3&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dvinland%2Bflag%26svnum%3D10 %26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DN

Sigrid
Friday, April 21st, 2006, 07:44 AM
Klokkwerx, this is true about the sole obsession with Nazism and a neglect to mention the Judaeo-Christian and liberal views of the rainbow pagans. I don't see it as solely Jewish in orientation. I think the Jews have only one interest in the world, themselves. So they never stop trying to make everyone look to racism because they are only interested in how racism once affected them and how they can use it now to wangle another few years as an occupying force in Palestine and in American politics. It's no use people denying this, I think it is as obvious as the proverbial wart on the witch's nose.

However, I am after the European rainbow liberals myself as I blame them entirely for what has happened. And I blame that on the evolution of Christian humanism into a mad weak political ideology with a terrible fascist left wing basis in draconian legislation and moral prescriptiveness. Everyone in the west is now too scared to walk on the pavement of life in case they squash an ant. If they do it will set in motion a lengthy personal court case where they will whip themselves for neglect to notice the ant and take his rights into consideration. They will offer to twin themselves with the ant's colony and spend the rest of their lives trying to make up for an imagined crime. The ants, who care nothing for the squashing of one of their millions of comrades in the great Ant Heap of their militarized and utterly fascist insectile world will think "what fools these people are" and begin to exploit them. That is after all what ants do. So it isn't the ants' fault it is the liberal's fault. The ant is being a normal animal and the liberal is trying to turn himself into a god. Because he is not one and can never hope to be one he will always only be a fool. The ants are right and they will devour his corpse when he dies because that is what ants do.

I used to have a Heathens Against Hate image on my website a while ago because I couldn't stand the Tom Metzgers and the Skinheads and the neo Nazi racists any more. They were turning me from my own faith because that is all you ever saw of it. Boots in your face and German tanks in your face and guns in your face all the way in so-called nationalism. And Odin and Thor and Tyr and the runes, Valhalla and the Einheriar insulted and misrepresented wherever you went. Mad, mad folk with crazy ideas and a hatred for our own people's science and technology, a hatred for civilization that put them in the same camp as the conspiracy theorists and the camps of both the far left and the fundamentalists. Many people left us then. They were repelled by all this violent and ignorant thuggishness. And it chased all the women away. Unless you like the kind that kicks heads and looks like it drives a bulldozer for a living.

National Socialism and Nationalism are two different political ideologies. I am not a socialist so I am a Nationalist. As soon as I see jackboots and armies I'm gone. I do not support domination of others and that includes one's own. The Americans are not Nazis they are an Empire, the last outpost of Christendom, and like all Christian Empires they are obsessed with Israel because they are adopted Jews into the children of Israel. Until this stops they will continue to turn the world against their crusading. The other problem is the growing horde of atheists who are almost all liberals. They have managed to chuck the religious thing but they cannot get rid of Christendom's legacy in a missionary zeal to convert everyone, this time to liberal humanism and globalisation.

Nationalism is full of these religious nuts and because some nationalists have decided to wage war against Islam they have also unwisely decided to take up the fallen torch of Christendom and relight it. Bad move in my opinion. You can fight a threat without dredging up unsuccessful attempts to fight it from history. Nazism and Christianity are two unsuccessful attempts to fight something. So what we need today is evolution of ideology and a new way of achieving self -determination.

I used to support the Midnottsol Kindred, who were folkish. Then they became the Midnottsol Regin and began to go a little AWOL on the folkish thing. When they became Northvegr I did my best but eventually had to stop supporting them as their leaders have become insufferable to almost everyone I know. They are rude, dictatorial and plain Judaeo-Christian in their worldview. I am furious with them for promoting our folk faith as a universal creed and for condemning out of hand all American Asatruar (except themselves, of course). If you want to please Auntie Alfta you have to kneel before this great law giver and accept that you will "graft " all others who come to our faith onto your group or she will pour acid on you. I have seen complaints across the net from people who haven't even been discussing folkish matters and have been given the acid treatment. They have all withdrawn, scorched and angry and disappointed that teachers of a creed would be so Christian in demanding universal acceptance of what Northvegr happen to think is the Heathen way. In a way they are as nazi as the Nazis they say they hate. One can have left wing as well as right wing fascism.

Also, this luvvie huggy attitude is causing people to take up Heathenism and reform it into a generalised pagan path. I believe that they hate Christianity so much they are willing to entertain anyone who drubs it. This is mindless in the long run and will kill any revival of any folk. Universalism will make of all the revived tribal creeds a soup of people and beliefs. Wicca has already done this so why do these people not join Wicca, the Bahai, charismatic Christianity or Islam? Why must they all suddenly be European pagans? I don't want to be a Pygmy, why do all these people want to be Germanic all of a sudden? They have hated us for centuries. Suddenly they must all dye their hair blond and join us. :screwy

I'll tell you why they are so keen. It's the runes and the "magic" and the "shamanism" and all that rubbish (and it is rubbish) that is put out about paganism today. Fleeing Christianity (a religion filled with magic) they want something alien and exotic and rebellious to the establishment so they decide from all corners of the earth and all colours of humanity that Heathenism is for them. And our faithless fascist liberal humanist brethren can't wait to sell our ancestral heritage to anyone who has their eye on it, whether we like it or not. They simply call us racists and nazis and continue to peddle our faith to anyone who wants to buy a sack full of stones with funny signs on them and start playing fortune teller and "shaman".

This is off topic,:outch: but as we are discussing flags and the adoption of various ideas by various groups who want to represent what is Heathen I think maybe it should be said.

If we are not careful we shall soon have the very unpleasant and highly offensive situation of a person from some other race and culture instructing us in the ways of our own. An anointed and accepted bona fide "Heathen", baptised by the likes of the rainbow pagan community who can't seem to get rid of the desire to have an enemy to hate and look down on and a beggar to clothe and feed and convert. One day we, the real Heathen folk, will look up and see an alien army approaching our camp bearing the cross of Odin and we shall be attacked by an adopted people who will call us scum and challenge us in the name of our very own gods. Urging them on will be those liberals who sold our culture to their anti-Christian friends. They will be carrying the bags and beating the drums for their new masters. I'm not joking, I'm uttering a warning. I am, after all, a real Heathen. I didn't go to a rainbow shaman school run by someone called Solly Blingowitz.

Sigurd
Friday, April 21st, 2006, 01:24 PM
Why must they all suddenly be European pagans? I don't want to be a Pygmy, why do all these people want to be Germanic all of a sudden? They have hated us for centuries. Suddenly they must all dye their hair blond and join us. :screwy

This is what I have never understood either. And what I understand even less are those Germanic that support Universialism.
I have never understood the concept of Universialist ┴satr˙. Our faith is one, where the honoring of your ancestors is of prime importance. So why would a Nigerian want to honor ancestors that are not his own?
And then they also think that inbreeding is fine, etc etc. Just make it rainbow, and an umbrella faith! Honor bloody ancestors, talk about you being reborn into your own family line, and then, as McNallen in good right critisized, you are reborn into a Persian princess - what's the point of that? :screwy
And I can never undestand those either that think that Germanic is congruent with blonde hair and blue eyes. I have been criticized oft enough by those unenglightened why I am not Norwegian and have blonde hair and blue eyes and follow Odinism. OK, let's see...my brother has blonde hair and blue eyes, but I have brown hair with a reddish hint and green eyes. My mom has blonde hair and blue eyes, but my uncle has red hair and green eyes. Are me and my brother, or my mom and my uncle now of a different race? :doh

As regards our folkway, I hate to see it perverted by both extremes, by those that are NS and those that are Unis. I have no problem with National Socialists, nor with National Socialists that are Heathens, but please don't be a "NS Heathen", it does not exist, it's not the case that "the FŘhrer did Odin's work 100%., and Wotan does not stand for Will Of The Aryan Nation. Full stop.

Sigrid
Friday, April 21st, 2006, 01:55 PM
I have Norwegian uncles with dark brown hair and blue eyes. Others are fair and blue eyes and I was blond when young and then went sort of honey blondish brown with red strands and am now going silvery slowly as you can imagine. :eek I think I shall be blond again some day! :D

The "Aryan idea" is off its head and must be dumped. Today "Aryans" are Persians from Iran who practise Zoroastrianism. A branch of our once upon a time folk of the Indo-European family. As you said somewhere else, Sig, including the Brahmin.

klokkwerx
Saturday, April 22nd, 2006, 12:00 AM
Well said Sigrid!
Now you are understood better in my eyes. I also agree with allot of your views.

We should really put out there the definition of what being a Folkish Heathen is, I know there is a few groups that do that, but what of making a banner exchange that will define the meaning?

Also, back to the orginal topic, what you think of the link I posted on the Vinland Flag variants?

Sigrid
Saturday, April 22nd, 2006, 07:43 AM
klokkwerx, I know those flags ;) . I have trouble with anything in red, black and white and anything with an overt so-called "Celtic cross" on it because it looks nazi and is being used by nazi groups in place of the nazi swastika. This is very problematic. I know the Indo-European colours are red, white and black but I feel that this is not going to help us. If you try and look at things from the view of people "out there" who need to be brought "in here" the effect is often for them quite scary. And the effect of these things has by no means worn off or been redefined and separated.

I used to promote the renewal of the swastika on my site. :D I did a whole lot of swasi graphics, even animated a fireball one and bejewelled them and cartooned them and so forth. But people still get nervous about you when they see this thing.

As an English patriot I fly the white dragon flag in support of those others who use it as a recognition symbol among us. I believe very strongly that that Cross of St George contraption does not represent us at all.

A one for all Heathen flag that can be used worldwide as well as individual Kindred or group flags might be an idea. That might be more unifying in general, but if one happens it will have to be without the old cross effect. And it would have to try and not have all three colours at once. We have the hurdle of the neo nazis to overcome as they have already used the suncross and the real nazis have used the three colours.

A shield divided into four or eight might work on a flag as this is still a suncross but it represents Odin's battle shield and our basic solar consciousness. It could be designed so it looks very rich and could have knot work (which is not Celtic) or maybe intertwined animal designs which are Viking. The sun or eagle on a shield is a very powerful symbol. We can't use Othala rune because the nazis used that and the same goes for Sowulo.

Personally I think black and green and red and gold (or yellow), silver, blue, etc are very evocative colours to work with in heraldry and of course white. It depends on how well the design can be constructed and whether a consensus can determine that lots of people like it, feel attached to it viscerally and would hold it up with honour.

It's not an easy task. They will fight about it. But if it's very attractive and appealing someone may manage it and almost everyone may agree to go for it. :)

Eisenmann
Saturday, April 22nd, 2006, 09:44 AM
red, black and white looks nazi? :doh

Sigrid
Saturday, April 22nd, 2006, 09:58 AM
Considering the fact that that is what characterises the nazi flag what is so "dumb" about it? (I saw the bit you took out about how stupid you think I am.) If I were you I would be careful not of making a t*t of me but of making one of yourself.

When something is both obvious and well known what is the point of denying it? If that is considered to be a tactic then it isn't going to work.

Eisenmann
Saturday, April 22nd, 2006, 12:07 PM
Okay, this is heading in a direction I tried to avoid by editing...

As you remember, I didn't say I thought you were stupid. I said it was the dumbest thing I had heard lately. Don't go about saying things I didn't say. I respect you. That's why I took it out. thank you. ;)

The color combination black-white-red is used widely among the world.. Prussia had it, The Second Reich, some cohorts of the Praetorians had it, some countries nowadays have it... I can hardly believe it to be nazi when it's used so commonplace. Fasces are still used today on various flags and in various guises, they are not related to Fascism in any way either. If we went that extra mile, we could say.. "Hey, Hitler's favourite food was spaghetti alla carbonara, you hate Jews if you eat it."

that's all I ment. My first impulsive reply was a bit too harsh, that's why I edited it. But hey - I'm a 20-year old, those of my age reply first, and then think about what they say. That's why I edited it - out of pure sole respect for who you are and what you stand for. :)

Sigrid
Saturday, April 22nd, 2006, 12:58 PM
I know you are only twenty. I know you have a volcano inside. I have one as well. It's never going to go out. You will get older but the volcano will only get more good at its job. We are similar.

I also know that eagles and black red and white is in the Germanic heritage, in the Indo-European heritage, but today the combo means nazi. The swasi means nazi. National socialism means nazi. I have come to the conclusion that to waste time trying to flog a dead horse is maybe dangerous. What is important to me is not flags or even history but right now. We must become a voice worth listening to now or we are screwed. Actually, I think we will always be okay, I think our people will be screwed. We could turn our backs on them and maybe we should in some ways, you can't save them all, but there are some who need something they can build on. These are the kind of activists I have been working with. I never judge any others. What they do is what they do, if I don't fit in I just withdraw. It's petty to fight over these things. I leave that to the left. They seem good at it. I've seen them willing to sacrifice their own future to support people who are not related to them and will replace them and oppress them. They really are that blind. Maybe they should be offered the invitation to join us but not searched for if they fall off the cliff. Anyone that stupid is maybe not much of a loss, especially when our door is now open. It won't and can't always be open to all of them. It is an opportunity I suggest they take within the next decade. But then we must look like we are not going to bite them in the ass, if you see what I mean.

I don't have the Christian desire to look for lost sheep, I have the Heathen desire to call lost wolves home. :) I don't necessarily have a home for them as I am an inhospitable island but I know who does and where to send them. ;)

klokkwerx
Saturday, April 22nd, 2006, 11:59 PM
']The color combination black-white-red is used widely among the world.. Prussia had it, The Second Reich, some cohorts of the Praetorians had it, some countries nowadays have it... I can hardly believe it to be nazi when it's used so commonplace. Fasces are still used today on various flags and in various guises, they are not related to Fascism in any way either. If we went that extra mile, we could say.. "Hey, Hitler's favourite food was spaghetti alla carbonara, you hate Jews if you eat it."
This statement is true.

Even Arab flags have the Red, White, Black colors. What we need to do as a living Germanic faith / hertitage culture is ignore those who call us "Nazi-istic", or even "neo-Nazis", what do out siders know of us anyway? Ignore them and they will go away, respond to them, then you fuel their fire.

Sigrid mentioned that she would like to call the lost Wolves home, that is fine, but look at it this way: Only the intelligent and strong Wolves come home, the other weak minded ones stray from fear.

Sigrid
Sunday, April 23rd, 2006, 07:26 AM
This statement is true.

Even Arab flags have the Red, White, Black colors. What we need to do as a living Germanic faith / hertitage culture is ignore those who call us "Nazi-istic", or even "neo-Nazis", what do out siders know of us anyway? Ignore them and they will go away, respond to them, then you fuel their fire.

Sigrid mentioned that she would like to call the lost Wolves home, that is fine, but look at it this way: Only the intelligent and strong Wolves come home, the other weak minded ones stray from fear.

Weak terrified people don't stray far when strong people have taken up the torch. They simply lack confidence and initiative. If someone else has it they follow. That is what rap stars and the promotion of multiculti soap opera relationships have achieved. Created "beautiful" heroes for ordinary people to follow.

What do we need? Stars of our own. More Lord of the Rings type literature and films. I have tried getting these published but they ignore me. They say they want them but in the end they seem too scared to move out of the sacred circle of a dominated media machine. It's virtually impossible but we mustn't give up. We need heroes of our own.

The very real problem is that when you say "let them call us nazis, what do they know of us?" you must take into account that they actually only know this image because this is what is pumped out constantly on the net as that is where our platform is. :mad: So if we do want to make a distinction between the two images then we shall have to do more than just say we aren't when it looks overwhelmingly like we are. I've battled this problem for years and discovered that there is a nazi or a closet one round every corner and that those who are not have either gone away or gone somewhere else because they literally cannot stand it. I have seen good activists threatened by these people on the net (with a beating or death on some occasions) and I have listened to them tell me they are finished with the right and then there is silence. They go not out of weakness but out of frustration and deep disillusion. They are good people and we are losing them and keeping the bad ones. That is retro to the aspiration. The Christians bash us too, really badly. But that isn't as big a problem as they really are historical enemies. What we do not need is enemy so-called Heathens with political agendas, both left and right.

But you have to be prepared to fight them as they are very nasty indeed and very keen to kill you off. They have nothing better to do and we have only the net to fight on. It is our Vigrid. At least that is my view. I am too far away to go anywhere else but the net. I can't wrap myself in a little community somewhere with nice folks and do rituals and have lore discussions and pretend the world doesn't exist. I have to go to the net. :mad:

Besides which our world out there is dying. But there are a few definite paths we can take to save ourselves from our own left wing and their mob of hangers-on.

I'm working on something. Today maybe I'll get it done.

klokkwerx
Sunday, April 23rd, 2006, 06:19 PM
Sigrid,

I agree that we need Heroes because we severely lack in that field right now, but comprimising our culture in any way is no option in my book, even if its giving up a few colors on a flag. We should'nt cater or conform to the mainstream media becuase they are against us, they will always be against us, they are the propaganda controlling jews (they always whine and cry over anything they dislike regardless what it is). Ignoring our enemies and keeping a watchful vigil is a good policy, but concentrating on Folk-building should be number-one, because that will for sure swell our ranks. In other words, rebuild the our Halls for the strong Warriors to come home to. The weak ones will obviouly wont make it due to being side trekked by pressure, influence, and fear.

Sigurd
Sunday, April 23rd, 2006, 07:27 PM
klokkwerx - Just because we make compromises now, it does not mean that we will have to make them forever, does it? Once our stance is accepted and respected in anyway, we can make demands and tell the truth about the flags. Of course, our culture is not to be compromised, but it may not be wise for our cause of promoting our ancestral faith if we wear all stereotypically seen things on our sleeves. I mean, of course I could run around with a Swastika in Germany and be sued for it, and then claim that it was for religious purposes, etc etc etc - but it will not help us at all. So, at the minute, it may be wiser to not have the look of one stereotypically NS; but when we have gained more respect, then we can demand things off the public to see that these have indeed been misused.

Of course I spent most of my time telling people that the Black-White-Red flag and the Fylfot are not NS signs, but the reason why they listen to me is because I approach them in a civil manner. If I wore all those things on my bomber jacket, then I would not even have that chance to promote what we are all about and people would just thin "Oh, another one of those Asa-troo-ahr, didn't the NYT write last summer that they were white supremacists, and rightly so." Which of course is bullsh**t. So, to promote ourselves, we must find a golden way that allows us not to compromise our culture yet still find respect in these hard days.

Well, just my £2.57. :)

klokkwerx
Sunday, April 23rd, 2006, 08:12 PM
...but the reason why they listen to me is because I approach them in a civil manner.

So, to promote ourselves, we must find a golden way that allows us not to compromise our culture yet still find respect in these hard days.

Look at how many people there are who are against the jew runned media and politics, a whole lot! What do the jews do about it? They just ignore those who speak against them, or start calling names. The ignoring business is good, and if you had to explain yourself or promote, then you said it from above.

Compromising should'nt be an option!