View Full Version : For Britons: Celtic or Teutonic Paganism - Or Both?

Friday, January 20th, 2006, 06:45 AM
:doh Which one are Brits supposed to follow?

Friday, January 20th, 2006, 10:57 AM
Depends what kind of Brit you are; the United Kingdom contains both Celtic and Germanic communities, and various regions are a patchwork of both cultures. If you're English, you should pick a Germanic/Teutonic tradition.

Friday, January 20th, 2006, 11:42 AM
Follow the one you feel "at home" with. Read about all and find out with which one you can identify most. One of them will "speak" to you. ;)

Alizon Device
Friday, January 20th, 2006, 03:50 PM
Please refrain from using the horrible term 'Brit'. :mad:

It's an artificial construct, invented by dark powers in media and cultural spheres in an attempt to lump the British islanders together, thus desensitizing us to our individual heritages, with the intention that we will eventually forget them completely.

Saturday, January 21st, 2006, 08:02 AM
When I did not know much about heritage and blindly thought that with Welsh/English ancestors I must be Celtic I read up on it a bit and it left me flat. Made even less sense to me than Greek mythology which I found quite fascinating in school (but not as a personal religion). Then I discovered Germanic/Norse traditions and my soul awoke. I believe I am more "Germanic" than Celtic. Ideally you would follow that which is closest to at least part of your blood ancestors beliefs but as those probably differed to some extent from valley to valley (and we are usually descendants of many valleys) I think it is a valid compromise to follow the generalized religion of Celtic, Norse or Germanic Heathenism, whichever is closer to your blood. Which calls to your Folk soul? Try and read things like the Eddas rather than modernized versions of the myth stories to get a truer sense of what it is really about.
Note: many things that are used in the Celtic revival (jewelery/culture/art/paganism)that seems to be happening have Germanic elements, some of it is just similarities and some of it is straight borrowing -like many of the non-christian "christmas" traditions.

Tuesday, January 24th, 2006, 08:42 PM
Follow the one you feel "at home" with. Read about all and find out with which one you can identify most. One of them will "speak" to you. ;)

Agreed :thumbsup

If you are English maybe you could look up Wodenism.

Friday, February 3rd, 2006, 01:11 AM
Two things;

Blood - Your ancestral ties are important in my opinion. You will be extremely lucky to have 90% Germanic blood in you, more than likely it's a combination. I follow my ancestral religion, my fathers side is Anglo-Saxon, i always go up the male line when it comes to ancestry, religion included.

Ofcourse there is a problem (good or bad) if you have mixed blood. My mothers side is actually according to family myth :P from Ireland. So i find myself in an odd position, im both Saxon and Celtic.. therefore something else must be taken into consideration...

What feels right - this is most important, it is absolutely no good following an ancestral path if it feels wrong or unsuitable. You must definately give it some time, try to connect with the gods, your ancestors and do some really deep research.
At the end of the day however, you must go with what feels natural or right. What clicks with you and makes deep hearted sense.

On another note, since i have mixed ancestry i have always considered mixing both pagan "paths" but i have not as of yet. Does not feel right for some reason.

Take it all into account, seperate wheat from chaff.. and just slowly develop what feels right.

Hope that helps.


Friday, March 24th, 2006, 12:59 AM
Two things;

Bloodi always go up the male line when it comes to ancestry, religion included.

I read in pre-christian Britain the female line was more important .

Saturday, March 25th, 2006, 03:24 PM
I read in pre-christian Britain the female line was more important .

Among Celts, yes.

On the other hand, patrilinear ascendancy was the rule among patriarchal societies like Rome or Greece.

Saturday, March 25th, 2006, 04:43 PM
The Asatru Folk Assembly (AFA) (http://www.runestone.org) had an article by Steven McNallen once about how many similarities there are between the Germanic and Celtic traditions and about the number of "Germanic Celts" and the difficulty sometimes telling them apart.

I lean toward both these traditions and I feel this is a blood thing. I find some aspects of Heathenism to be very unrelated to my personality. Whereas I find aspects in Celtic religion to be compatible.

I have studied Heathenism for many years and have recently begun to look into the Celtic side. I find aspects in both that are similar and compatible. I am completely disinterested in national socialism and bearing twenty children to a huge beer soaked oaf who has shaved off all his hair and thinks women were created to spend their lives serving some or other masculine purpose concerned with warrior consciousness and warfare.

I am not a feminist so Wicca is totally out of the question. It is what the Asatru Alliance once hilariously referred to as "Jehovah in drag". I like the Asatru Alliance, I can't help liking them, they have balls, but I don't know if I am like this kind of Heathen. I have tried to join Heathen groups before but have fallen foul of really outdated chauvinists, of the plainly uneducated and uneducatable and the constant underlying racism has turned me away. I am not a lefty nor a multiculturalist but neither am I a proponent of the outdated ideas some of these people have about life and society.

I don't know where I will settle eventually. I am always sorry to find myself moving away from certain aspects of Heathendom but they just repel me. Perhaps the Irish focus will revive me. I know I have to do something about the way I keep feeling in terms of my Heathen beliefs. They won't change but I can see myself knocking on my Celtic kin's door in the near future for somewhere to rest and work and study and not feel like I was drowning in blood.

I wonder how others feel on this subject, especially women. Do they ever feel that they have had enough? I looked at the Hellenist (Greek) pagan sites today to see how they approach things and it was a pleasure to see them putting emphasis on their legacy of art and philosophy, science and politics. The Julian Society is also very focused on Roman virtue. One always gets the feeling that one can meet with these people, and rest and talk and leave feeling one has been enriched. And that one has not left civilization. Heathens tend to be overtly focussed on peasant culture and therefore neglect the pursuits of the intellect to a damaging degree, I feel, and when they do go into it it is invariably from a power politics angle. But that is their right. If they want to do things this way they must go ahead. However they lack women in their movement and there is a reason for this.

Some people are trying to rescue the situation and I hope they manage to but I feel myself drifting away in some respects.

The Horned God
Saturday, March 25th, 2006, 04:55 PM
I read in pre-christian Britain the female line was more important .

I'm afraid I have to correct you there! Matrilineal succession is exceeding rare around the world never mind in European culture, and the society of the British Celts was definitely not matrilineal.:)Nor was that of any Indo-European group as far as I know.
The goddess principle often figured strongly, yes, but that is another matter.

It has been said that the Pict's of what is now Scotland practiced materilineal succession on occasion. But even that is still debated.

From Wikipedia: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pict's)

The Pict's are often said to have practiced matrilineal succession on the basis of Irish legends and a statement in Bede's history. In fact, Bede merely says that the Pict's used matrilineal succession in exceptional cases.[46] The kings of the Pict's when Bede was writing were Bridei and Nechtan, sons of Der Ilei, who indeed claimed the throne through their mother Der Ilei, daughter of an earlier Pictish king.[47]

In Ireland, kings were expected to come from among those who had a great-grandfather who had been king.[48] Kingly fathers were not frequently succeeded by their sons, not because the Picts practised matrilineal succession, but because they were usually followed by their brothers or cousins, more likely to be experienced men with the authority and the support necessary to be king.[49]

Wednesday, June 14th, 2006, 08:17 PM
I've been having pretty much the same problem lately. I can't decide on which path to follow as I am not 100% sure about my bloodline. I definitely know I have English, Irish, Scottish and Welsh blood in me. However, I feel a strong connexion with Norway which has confused me as I know of no connexion with scandinavia. Also, I'm not sure if that connexion I felt was just my feelings towards the beauty of the country when I went. This has compounded the confusion. I've read a little bit about Gaelic Traditionalism but it didn't seem to click with me easily. When I went to Ireland I didn't feel much of a connexion at all with the land. Gaah, I'll just have to hope that I decide some time soon :doh.

Thursday, June 15th, 2006, 05:03 AM
The English and Scottish in you may be causing the feelings for a Norway link, Tomas. :)


Thursday, June 15th, 2006, 01:36 PM
Thanks for the link! It's very interesting and it has made things a little bit clearer for me. I'll know which path to follow soon I hope. In the next three months during which I have lots of spare time I will be tracing my heritage and reading books on Odinism and druidism and Gaelic and scandinavian lore.

Thursday, June 15th, 2006, 01:40 PM
Best of luck with this its important to take time to find yourself and the right path to take in life the one that suits you best.

Friday, June 16th, 2006, 11:41 AM
I think I've come to a conclusion, or I'm nearly there at least. Odinism is the path I am drawn towards. I've just been reading the lore and it seems like it fits perfectly in my life. Druidry didn't seem to quite grab me as much. I think my English heritage has drawn me towards Odinism. However, I'm still a little confused about the connection I feel with scandinavia. Maybe I felt closer to the gods? I dunno :).

Friday, June 16th, 2006, 01:48 PM
Same thing happened to me, Tomas, I chose Odinism, but I love the Druids and in nature am an elf (metpahorically speaking :) ), so as Nordic Dust said, take time to find something.

I have noticed one thing and that is joining a group can be the finest way to destroy your connection with your individual spirituality. You will run into grumpy, unfriendly, demanding, egotistical pains in the ass that make spirituality a chore and, worse, a duty. Steer clear, head for the woods, look into streams, ride on rainbows, speak the language of the birds, find true love and never ever give your soul away to anyone who isn't like you.

My shaman's wish for you and blessing. Always just be yourself and the spirits will accept you even if some people give you the cold shoulder. People are only a small part of what lives in the web. And anyone who demands anything of you in religion's name is not actually spiritual at all, but basically trying to implement an agenda.

Thursday, October 12th, 2006, 07:31 PM
Not wanting to belittle my Celtic cousins, but there are times when I find modern neo-pagan use of the term 'Celtic' rather too twee and hippyish.

I'm sure this is not always the case but I do find new age stuff quite sickening and infantile.

Celts, like their Teutonic cousins, were soldiers, farmers, scholars, kings, priests, you name it. Not the hippys portrayed by new age types.

Agains it's what you feel more connected to.

I went on holiday to Cornwall and I must admit that 1, I love the place and 2, I love the way that everywhere you went they had there flags out, all the time, not just on St Whoever's name or during football season, I mean all the time. Apart from during football season, I don't think we ever see a St George's cross up here.