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Amar421
Monday, April 19th, 2004, 09:23 PM
This is Rajiv Gandhi.
He is a kashmiri brahmin hindu, which is supposed to be the most "aryanized" castes of India. This is likely the most common phenotype the Aryan Invaders brought with them to the subcontinent. His coloration seems Med, but his facial features are Nordic. What would you guys say ?

I myself am a punjabi indic (of sikh religion although I have cut my hair )

http://www.rgfindia.com/

Scoob
Monday, April 19th, 2004, 09:29 PM
This is Rajiv Gandhi.
He is a kashmiri brahmin hindu, which is supposed to be the most "aryanized" castes of India. This is likely the most common phenotype the Aryan Invaders brought with them to the subcontinent. His coloration seems Med, but his facial features are Nordic. What would you guys say ?

I myself am a punjabi indic (of sikh religion although I have cut my hair )

http://www.rgfindia.com/
Is that you in your avatar? You look completely Caucasian/Europid in that picture.

Rajiv Gandhi has features that might suggest some small admixture with non-Caucasian peoples - notably the eyes and general fleshiness of the face. You in contrast look more leptomorphic and refined - closer to how I imagine a n ancient Indo-Aryan might look. However both look "Gracile Europid."

In fact, the pic in your avatar looks leptosomic and linear ("aristocratic") to a degree that is somewhat rare in Europeans. Most Europeans are more round-featured.

Amar421
Monday, April 19th, 2004, 09:34 PM
Is that you in your avatar? You look completely Caucasian/Europid in that picture.

Rajiv Gandhi has more features that might suggest some admixture with non-Caucasian peoples - notably the eyes and general fleshiness of the face. You in contrast look very leptomorphic and refined - closer to how I imagine a n ancient Indo-Aryan might look.
Yes that is me. Please keep in mind that I am generally a little swarthier than that picture suggests. The picture was taken after a particularly rough semester at school where I spent the past few months programming inside a dark dingy lab from morning till midnight. Also, it was taken at the end of a long and dark wisconsin winter :)

Rajiv Gandhi "fleshy" face may have much to do with the fact that he was close to 50 at the time the picture was taken and the fact that as a brahmin elite he probably did no physical activity and had hoards of servants to work for him (as is typical for upper class indians), and his likely access to plenty of rich food :)

Scoob
Monday, April 19th, 2004, 09:41 PM
Yes that is me. Please keep in mind that I am generally a little swarthier than that picture suggests. The picture was taken after a particularly rough semester at school where I spent the past few months programming inside a dark dingy lab from morning till midnight. Also, it was taken at the end of a long and dark wisconsin winter :)

Rajiv Gandhi "fleshy" face may have much to do with the fact that he was close to 50 at the time the picture was taken and the fact that as a brahmin elite he probably did no physical activity and had hoards of servants to work for him (as is typical for upper class indians), and his likely access to plenty of rich food :)
Are your looks typical for your ethnic group? You look almost like an Atlantid!

I don't think skin pigmentation is terribly important, because it can be changed by climactic factors rather easily.

I see leptosomic Caucasoids, including Nordics proper, Atlantids, Mediterranids, and Nordindids (by this I mean Indo-Iranians) as all being of similar type. I think such people were perhaps the key catalyst in creating modernity.

An alternative explanation that I haven't given much thought to is that some environmental factor might have caused gracilization of existing populations in recent times. Some claim that Atlantids are actually gracilized Brunns (gracilized by mixing, or by selection? That is a key question) and so on. Perhaps there is an inherent gracilizing element in the human genome that is activated under certain stresses, creating a general endomorphic compositional type. Likewise for mesomorphy and endomorphy. I.e., some kind of hormonal trigger.

Amar421
Monday, April 19th, 2004, 09:47 PM
Are your looks typical for your ethnic group? You look almost like an Atlantid!

I don't think skin pigmentation is terribly important, because it can be changed by climactic factors rather easily.

I see leptosomic Caucasoids, including Nordics proper, Atlantids, Mediterranids, and Nordindids (by this I mean Indo-Iranians) as all being of similar type. I think such people were perhaps the key catalyst in creating modernity.
My looks are definitely within the range of common phenotypes within the Punjabi ethnic group of northwestern India/Eastern pakistan. I am slightly on the fairer side however, but still well within the range.
My looks are not typical for most Indian/Pakistani people as most people on the subcontinent have large amounts of australoid blood. The Punjabis may have some too but I don't know if that has been established.
I would look at home in most parts of Northwestern India and Northern Pakistan.
I tan very fast. When I go to India to visit family or even during the summer in the USA, I will turn brown really quick.
Like I had said on an earlier thread, I would not pass for a white american but maybe could pass for a southern italian.

Regarding the modernity issue...that may be debatable :) surely there are plenty of gangly "leptosomic" professors but I have seen my fair share of fatties who are great intellects :)

Agrippa
Monday, April 19th, 2004, 10:08 PM
Rajiv Gandhi is more Gracilindid, you on the other hand are more Nordindid, probably with Mediterranid admixture.
Nordindid is the (Indo-) Aryan type and quite common in Punjabis, thats right, but usually with unusual facial features, mainly more hair/beard and a stronger nose than Atlantids, so probably thats the reason why you look more Atlantid because thats not so the case in your person.

For the rest of their facial etc. features they are similar to Nordids/Atlantids and differ just slightly. Even blue eyes are possible in Nordindids.

I wouldnt wonder if they have some close relation to Nordids/Atlantids if we would go back in time because the types are very similar.
But some features, including the nose/beard suggest another admixture, probably from Armenids or Orientalids or it was a development on its own.

Scoob
Monday, April 19th, 2004, 10:08 PM
My looks are definitely within the range of common phenotypes within the Punjabi ethnic group of northwestern India/Eastern pakistan. I am slightly on the fairer side however, but still well within the range.
My looks are not typical for most Indian/Pakistani people as most people on the subcontinent have large amounts of australoid blood. The Punjabis may have some too but I don't know if that has been established.
I would look at home in most parts of Northwestern India and Northern Pakistan.
I tan very fast. When I go to India to visit family or even during the summer in the USA, I will turn brown really quick.
Like I had said on an earlier thread, I would not pass for a white american but maybe could pass for a southern italian.

Regarding the modernity issue...that may be debatable :) surely there are plenty of gangly "leptosomic" professors but I have seen my fair share of fatties who are great intellects :)
Most Europids tan easily, with the exception of types living in the extremely cloudy areas of NW Europe - who have an inhibitor gene that prevents tanning. I notice there is some variation of hue in tanning within Europeans - many Meds get a more "greenish" brown color, and W people often get a reddish hue mixed in, and many N/E Euro people get a bronze color without the extra red or green. Your base skin color looks olive in that picture, not brown at all.

And see Agrippa's posts on constitutional types. http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=8778

I don't neccessarily think leptosomic types are neccessarily "more intelligent" - however they might be more intellectually oriented in general. They process experiences and information differently from other types, perhaps, and have different behavioral tendencies. According to Sheldon they are more solitary and studious, and develop strongly-held views -- unlike the more gregarious and easy-going endomorphs, or more active and unthoughtful mesomorphs.

Agrippa says the beard on Amar's avatar suggests admixture with Armenids or Orientalids - but I notice many Italians and even Black Irish have this "Fred Flintstone" type beard, with heavy five o clock shadow. I think Colin Farell has it also. Nords seem not to have it, but perhaps this is a recent Nordid trait acquired from mixing with Uralic peoples in Scandinavia.

Amar421
Monday, April 19th, 2004, 10:18 PM
Agrippa says the beard on Amar's avatar suggests admixture with Armenids or Orientalids - but I notice many Italians and even Black Irish have this "Fred Flintstone" type beard, with heavy five o clock shadow. I think Colin Farell has it also. Nords seem not to have it, but perhaps this is a recent NOrdid trait acquired from Uralid admixture in Scandinavia.

Orientalids ??? Are you sure ? Last time I saw, orientals tend to have really light facial hair.

My facial hair is thick and wavy in texture. I have to shave everyday :(

Agrippa
Monday, April 19th, 2004, 10:31 PM
Orientalids ??? Are you sure ? Last time I saw, orientals tend to have really light facial hair.

My facial hair is thick and wavy in texture. I have to shave everyday :(

There is a great range of body hair types in Orientalids imo but the nearer Iranid types of Iran are almost as hairy as Armenids afaik.

But I was speaking mainly about the facial features, f.e. bigger-convex nose which can be both an Indo-Aryan feature or the result of admixture with local Armenids/Orientalids.

I dunno and genetic studies are the only way to be sure about that.

Of course the rest is so strongly Nordoid in some cases that it is something strange that just the nose is different. Maybe the tribes/clans of Indoeuropeans or even older groups had this feature developed on its own.

Coon even suggested they brouth the hooked-convex nose to Anatolia and the Irano-Afghan-Alpinoid mix produced Armenids.

Was he right or was it the other way around? I dunno...

Susisaari
Monday, April 19th, 2004, 10:54 PM
Orientalids ??? Are you sure ? Last time I saw, orientals tend to have really light facial hair.


By Orientalids he means basically Turks and such, not Chinese...

I think you look Spanish.

Agrippa
Monday, April 19th, 2004, 10:57 PM
By Orientalids he means basically Turks and such, not Chinese...


Oh, I forgot that someone couldnt know that term. Of course just to clearify that Orientalid means a similar type like you can find in Arabs in the purest form.

There are two branches Iranid and Arabid.