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View Full Version : The Awful Fur Farms (Warning: Gruesome Videos)



Odin Biggles
Friday, April 29th, 2005, 09:18 PM
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=fur_farm

http://www.furisdead.com/feat/ChineseFurFarms/

Its stuff like that that makes me dispise human kind even more...

Ewergrin
Saturday, April 30th, 2005, 02:25 AM
I won't watch this because chances are it's nothing but leftist propaganda. Peta? Get real. PETA has more skeletons in its closet than most pedophiles.

We have to co-exist with animals and all other species that walk/crawl on this earth. Humankind is still superior and has every right to use these animals as we see fit. Whether the processes we use to harvest their byproduct are "humane" or not is completely subjective.

Odin Biggles
Saturday, April 30th, 2005, 11:20 PM
Hummm I dont know the background of PETA or anything but I dont think theres any excuse for skinning an animal alive.

Ewergrin
Monday, May 2nd, 2005, 02:47 AM
Hummm I dont know the background of PETA or anything but I dont think theres any excuse for skinning an animal alive.

Like I said, I didn't (and won't) watch the video.

Allenson
Monday, May 2nd, 2005, 05:00 PM
I won't watch this because chances are it's nothing but leftist propaganda. Peta? Get real. PETA has more skeletons in its closet than most pedophiles.

We have to co-exist with animals and all other species that walk/crawl on this earth. Humankind is still superior and has every right to use these animals as we see fit. Whether the processes we use to harvest their byproduct are "humane" or not is completely subjective.


I'm surprised at these words, my friend. These videos might make you think otherwise. The skinning of an alive racoon was one of the most repulsive things that I've ever witnessed....

I am not opposed to humans using animal products by any stretch of the imagination but in this case, there is surely no need for the animal to be alive whilst it is having its hide carved from still functioning body--kicking and squirming. Is this coexisting? I don't think that this is "co-" anything. It is a one way street plain and simple.

To all else:

A dominion over nature has never been my way as I see all entities in the Natural World as having intrinsic value--in and of themselves. Plants, animals, water, air, rock and soil where not "put" here on this earth simply for the sole reason of satisfying our human urges. They exist regardless of our own existence. It sort of reminds me of some of deer hunters around here. The deer herd here in VT is a bit low right now and the hunting season this past fall was not a good one for the hunters in terms of deer killed. Many of the hunters are up in arms and rather mad at the state's Fish and Wildlife Service and "not managing the herd" to optimize hunting. While I have no issue with hunting (I go myself--though I've never shot a deer) I just can't abide the attitude of these itate hunters. It's as if the deer exist for no other reason than to be shot! Anthropocentrism at its finest!

As for the anthropomorphizing of human senses onto animals argument--I know it well and understand its tenets. However, with regard to our fellow mammalia, I've been around enough of them in my life to see very clearly that they too have emotions and surely feel pain. Anyone who says that they don't is either utterly selfish, totally blind or both (not directed at Folkish!).

Ewergrin
Monday, May 2nd, 2005, 07:10 PM
I'm surprised at these words, my friend. These videos might make you think otherwise. The skinning of an alive racoon was one of the most repulsive things that I've ever witnessed....

As I said, I won't watch the video. I am not condoning in any way the torture of any animals, be they walk on two legs or four. My only point was that humans have domain over animals.


I am not opposed to humans using animal products by any stretch of the imagination but in this case, there is surely no need for the animal to be alive whilst it is having its hide carved from still functioning body--kicking and squirming.

Like I said, I didn't and won't watch the video. I have no idea of its contents. I assumed it was a video of a typical slaughterhouse.



Is this coexisting? I don't think that this is "co-" anything. It is a one way street plain and simple.

Of course not. It's torture and it's stupid.


To all else:

A dominion over nature has never been my way as I see all entities in the Natural World as having intrinsic value--in and of themselves. Plants, animals, water, air, rock and soil where not "put" here on this earth simply for the sole reason of satisfying our human urges.
Of course they weren't put here. We all came to be in our own way. Mankind progressed further than all other animals. Somone had to do it. We must still tread lightly. Torturing animals is not treading lightly. It is being disrespectful every other thing in existence.


They exist regardless of our own existence. It sort of reminds me of some of deer hunters around here. The deer herd here in VT is a bit low right now and the hunting season this past fall was not a good one for the hunters in terms of deer killed. Many of the hunters are up in arms and rather mad at the state's Fish and Wildlife Service and "not managing the herd" to optimize hunting. While I have no issue with hunting (I go myself--though I've never shot a deer) I just can't abide the attitude of these itate hunters. It's as if the deer exist for no other reason than to be shot! Anthropocentrism at its finest!

If the deer were being used solely for food and skin, I'd support them. Though most hunters eat their kill, some also just hunt for fun. Down here, hunting for sport is common (we are the "Sportsmans Paradise" after all) but I believe most hunters here do so for the food it provides.


As for the anthropomorphizing of human senses onto animals argument--I know it well and understand its tenets. However, with regard to our fellow mammalia, I've been around enough of them in my life to see very clearly that they too have emotions and surely feel pain. Anyone who says that they don't is either utterly selfish, totally blind or both (not directed at Folkish!).

No offence taken, friend. If there was any confusion in my first post, it was because I was tired and didn't feel like writing a huge essay on PETA. Of course animals feel pain. Anyone who doubts this must be a right wing fundamentalist Christian nutjob. Oh yeah, and the earth is only 6000 years old, too! :jeer

Mjölnir
Monday, May 2nd, 2005, 07:23 PM
I would do the same with them. These cruel Human Beings are "Untermenschen". So they should hang on their balls for the end of time.

M., :smt067

anaktas
Monday, May 2nd, 2005, 10:19 PM
I would do the same with them. These cruel Human Beings are "Untermenschen". So they should hang on their balls for the end of time.

M., :smt067
Sadistic, but I agree. They deserve it!

Odin Biggles
Tuesday, May 3rd, 2005, 12:48 AM
Although theres no excuse for it, the people in the video doing this are Chinese peasants, they couldnt care less about whether the animal is in excruciating pain or not, they just want to get the job over with, they were probably brought up away from modern society and to them theres nothing wrong in what they're doing.

Im not defending them at all, but to us this is digusting and not expected in modern times, to them its the way theyve been doing it for years, because they arent aware of modern morals or anything.

Allenson
Tuesday, May 3rd, 2005, 02:54 PM
As I said, I won't watch the video. I am not condoning in any way the torture of any animals, be they walk on two legs or four. My only point was that humans have domain over animals.

I see. ;) I agree with all that you've said in this post except for the "domain" issue. While surely we have reached a point where we can pretty much enforce our will upon all other living things--that fact that we can, to me does not imply that we should.



Like I said, I didn't and won't watch the video. I have no idea of its contents. I assumed it was a video of a typical slaughterhouse.

It's pretty gory and it made me squirm and wince in my seat. :stop It showed an outside venue--a fur farm if you will--with a hanging, living racoon being skinned.... OK, enough... :upset





Of course not. It's torture and it's stupid.

Yup.



Of course they weren't put here. We all came to be in our own way. Mankind progressed further than all other animals. Somone had to do it. We must still tread lightly. Torturing animals is not treading lightly. It is being disrespectful every other thing in existence.

I have my suspicions about human 'progress'...but I know what you mean. As I've said, I really have no issue with the use of animal products but I do have issue with the manner in which these products come to be.



If the deer were being used solely for food and skin, I'd support them. Though most hunters eat their kill, some also just hunt for fun. Down here, hunting for sport is common (we are the "Sportsmans Paradise" after all) but I believe most hunters here do so for the food it provides.

Well sure, they eat the venison and hang the antlers in the shed or some such place. No problem. It's their view on things that I don't always appreciate. Again, the way they come across, it seems that they believe that the only reason that deer live in these hills is so that they can be hunted come fall. They have little to no concept of intrinsic value.



No offence taken, friend. If there was any confusion in my first post, it was because I was tired and didn't feel like writing a huge essay on PETA. Of course animals feel pain. Anyone who doubts this must be a right wing fundamentalist Christian nutjob. Oh yeah, and the earth is only 6000 years old, too!

I'm glad to hear it. I didn't want it to come across as if I was lumping you in with nonthinkers. It's clear that you are indeed of a lofty mind. ;)

I don't know much about PETA other than their basic stance on animal treatment. I'm sure that they're not perfect but I also might find myself on their "side" on some matters as well... I suppose I could read up on them.

And yes, it is the Judeo-Christian-Islamic unholy trinity that has taught us that it is not only OK, but that it is man's obligation to bring nature to his heel--regardless of the manner in which this is done.

Odin Biggles
Tuesday, May 3rd, 2005, 03:54 PM
And yes, it is the Judeo-Christian-Islamic unholy trinity that has taught us that it is not only OK, but that it is man's obligation to bring nature to his heel--regardless of the manner in which this is done.

Good reason to be none of them :).

Ewergrin
Wednesday, May 4th, 2005, 12:38 AM
I see. ;) I agree with all that you've said in this post except for the "domain" issue. While surely we have reached a point where we can pretty much enforce our will upon all other living things--that fact that we can, to me does not imply that we should.
I meant "dominion", not domian, and also not that it matters.
Hunters, Animal Rights Activists, Religious Nutjobs, Modern Heathens, and just plain guys from Montana can argue until they are blue in the face about whether or not mankind has the right to force it's will upon the rest of the natural world. However, one thing is certain; humankind is the only species (that we know of) that has a conscience. This alone seperates us from every other oxygen breathing, carbon based life-form. Therefore that it is enough for me to know that humans, by divine blessing or natural evolution (take your pick) have dominion over all other species on this earth. That being said, it is no reason to act in dispicable fashion. In fact, we are obligated to lead and be an example, not the reverse.


It's pretty gory and it made me squirm and wince in my seat. :stop It showed an outside venue--a fur farm if you will--with a hanging, living racoon being skinned.... OK, enough... :upset

Now I definitely won't be watching it.


I have my suspicions about human 'progress'...but I know what you mean. As I've said, I really have no issue with the use of animal products but I do have issue with the manner in which these products come to be.
Of course, as does any decent human with a good moral background.


Well sure, they eat the venison and hang the antlers in the shed or some such place. No problem. It's their view on things that I don't always appreciate. Again, the way they come across, it seems that they believe that the only reason that deer live in these hills is so that they can be hunted come fall. They have little to no concept of intrinsic value.
I don;t know how it is in your neck of the woods, but here, the deer have become overpopulated and because of this, the natural forest cycle can be upset. Hunters are encouraged, but there is always a limit. I'm sure it is the same way in your state.


I'm glad to hear it. I didn't want it to come across as if I was lumping you in with nonthinkers. It's clear that you are indeed of a lofty mind. ;)
Lofty indeed! Tales of my minds loftiness are legendary. Just ask the Curse or any of the other dimwits I have had the tedious misfortune of expelling from their accursed holes in an internet coffee houses worldwide!


I don't know much about PETA other than their basic stance on animal treatment. I'm sure that they're not perfect but I also might find myself on their "side" on some matters as well... I suppose I could read up on them.
I wish I could find a thread I participated in at Skadi concerning PETA. I would merely repost it here. I suggest you watch Penn and Tellers show "Bullshit", on Showtime (I think.) They do a marvelous job of exposing PETA for what it really is.


And yes, it is the Judeo-Christian-Islamic unholy trinity that has taught us that it is not only OK, but that it is man's obligation to bring nature to his heel--regardless of the manner in which this is done.
And people ask why I'm not a Christian...

Mistress Klaus
Thursday, May 5th, 2005, 02:17 PM
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=fur_farm

http://www.furisdead.com/feat/ChineseFurFarms/

Its stuff like that that makes me dispise human kind even more...
:dismay It took ages to download for me and I gave up. A good thing really, as I don't want to see it. It would affect me. The mere suggestion of cruelty to animals brings tears & shudders...

Humanity may need meat to eat...but outright cruelty for the greed of money & vanity is completely abominable.

Animals are instinctive & in balance with nature. We stupid selfish bastards have turned everything to a clockwork orange.........

:upset :~(

Odin Biggles
Thursday, May 5th, 2005, 02:29 PM
Well I only watched it out of curiosity, I think its best with your love for them animals you dont see it.

Whether PETA are left-wing & dodgy or not, anyone who sees that will think twice before buying any real fur stuff.

Ewergrin
Thursday, May 5th, 2005, 02:49 PM
.

Whether PETA are left-wing & dodgy or not, anyone who sees that will think twice before buying any real fur stuff.

Just to play the devils advocate:

What if the animal had been killed "humanely" and then stripped of it's fur? Would the death of this animal and the use of it's skin (albeit for purely aesthetic reasons) be an action that is acceptable in your eyes?

Mistress Klaus
Thursday, May 5th, 2005, 03:01 PM
Just to play the devils advocate:

What if the animal had been killed "humanely" and then stripped of it's fur? Would the death of this animal and the use of it's skin (albeit for purely aesthetic reasons) be an action that is acceptable in your eyes?Well I wear leather (cowhide) frequently. I won't wear any skin other than that.
I guess I am a hypocrite...but I am not contributing to the decline of a rare animal species.

Odin Biggles
Thursday, May 5th, 2005, 03:30 PM
Just to play the devils advocate:

What if the animal had been killed "humanely" and then stripped of it's fur? Would the death of this animal and the use of it's skin (albeit for purely aesthetic reasons) be an action that is acceptable in your eyes?

If it was actually dead before having its skin cut off it, then yes.

Animal skin has been used by humans for millenia, dont have a problem with that, just killing an animal for no reason or torturing it like this.

Allenson
Thursday, May 5th, 2005, 08:26 PM
I meant "dominion", not domian, and also not that it matters.
Hunters, Animal Rights Activists, Religious Nutjobs, Modern Heathens, and just plain guys from Montana can argue until they are blue in the face about whether or not mankind has the right to force it's will upon the rest of the natural world. However, one thing is certain; humankind is the only species (that we know of) that has a conscience. This alone seperates us from every other oxygen breathing, carbon based life-form. Therefore that it is enough for me to know that humans, by divine blessing or natural evolution (take your pick) have dominion over all other species on this earth. That being said, it is no reason to act in dispicable fashion. In fact, we are obligated to lead and be an example, not the reverse.

Dominion, domain...it's all the same. Etymology: Middle English dominioun, from Old French dominion, from Medieval Latin domini, dominin-, from Latin dominium, property, from dominus, lord. See dem- in Indo-European Roots.

Hmmm, the conscience issue is an interesting one and one that I should mull over a bit. Intitially and instictually, I would hazard that many creatures do not have a conscience---but I have to wonder about the mammals. And so I shall. ;)


Now I definitely won't be watching it.

I understand completely.



I don;t know how it is in your neck of the woods, but here, the deer have become overpopulated and because of this, the natural forest cycle can be upset. Hunters are encouraged, but there is always a limit. I'm sure it is the same way in your state.

Well yes, in a lot of the suburbs and exurbs to the south of us such as Connecticut, lower New York State, New Jersey, etc., by all accounts, there are indeed too many deer. This is not the case here. We may have a similar deer to square mile ratio to these places but with much more undeveloped land here, they have more room to get away from humanity so they are harder to find.



Lofty indeed! Tales of my minds loftiness are legendary. Just ask the Curse or any of the other dimwits I have had the tedious misfortune of expelling from their accursed holes in an internet coffee houses worldwide!

LOL. The first recipient of the Anti-Cosmo Hero award? :haha


I wish I could find a thread I participated in at Skadi concerning PETA. I would merely repost it here. I suggest you watch Penn and Tellers show "Bullshit", on Showtime (I think.) They do a marvelous job of exposing PETA for what it really is.

Well, now that it is somewhat available again, perhaps I'll take a gander.


And people ask why I'm not a Christian...

I won't bother. ;)

Allenson
Thursday, May 5th, 2005, 08:28 PM
Just to play the devils advocate:

What if the animal had been killed "humanely" and then stripped of it's fur? Would the death of this animal and the use of it's skin (albeit for purely aesthetic reasons) be an action that is acceptable in your eyes?

Well, that is my issue here. If the animal had been killed outright before the skinning, then I would have much less of a problem with the whole affair...

Rather a simplification and quick answer....