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Rodskarl Dubhgall
Saturday, October 11th, 2008, 03:28 AM
These are the countries with Germanic etymology for national name:

Iceland
Norway
Denmark
Sweden
Finland (In Swedish: Suomi is the other official language's term, in common with the Sami--Lapps, another Germanic name)
France
Netherland
Germany
Switzerland (Even though has other official languages, which all attest to Germanic root)
Liechtenstein
Austria
Russia (Named for Roslagen in Sweden)
Belarus (Compare above)

Great Britain and Northern Ireland are Celtic roots, regardless of any intranational sentiments of the English.

I used to think that Italy was cognate with Aethel, but I don't know what to think...

Belgium and Bulgaria are related to "Wales", right? They all mean "foreign" in Germanic tongues, correct?

Psychonaut
Saturday, October 11th, 2008, 03:36 AM
Don't forget Luxembourg, which according to this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Luxembourg) comes "from the word Letze, meaning fortification."

There's also New Zealand, which comes from the Danish SŠl-land or Seal land.

Ămeric
Saturday, October 11th, 2008, 03:47 AM
I think Austria is a phonetic Latinization of Osterreich. And is Germany/Germania Germanic? The Romans used the phrase Germania. The modern inhabitants call themselves Deutsche, the country Deutschland.:scratch

Ireland is partly Germanic, an Anglicization of Eire > Eireland > Ireland.

And don't forget America is Germanic, whether it is after King Henry VII or Amerigo Vespucci coming from Haimirich or Amalirich both Germanic.

Loyalist
Saturday, October 11th, 2008, 03:49 AM
The fact that Great Britain may derive from Celtic roots aside, England is of Germanic origin, and Scotland hails from an 11th century Germanicization of Scotia. The latter is an interesting case, as some cities and regions are highly reflective of Anglo-Saxon and Norse occupation through the centuries (Edinburgh, Sutherland [Su­rland], etc.).

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Saturday, October 11th, 2008, 04:57 AM
Don't forget Luxembourg, which according to this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duchy_of_Luxembourg) comes "from the word Letze, meaning fortification."

There's also New Zealand, which comes from the Danish SŠl-land or Seal land.Yes you are right that both of those are Germanic, but the etymology of the latter is actually from Seeland (Nord See) next to Holland; compare New Holland for the original name given to Australia.

EDIT:
http://forums.skadi.net/images/reputation/reputation_pos.gifGermanic Country Names (http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?p=861945#post861945)Frida y, October 10th, 2008 09:03 PMDrim (http://forums.skadi.net/member.php?u=25421)its Zeeland but you are right dont have to say it myself now :PRespond (http://forums.skadi.net/private.php?do=newpm&u=25421)

I think Austria is a phonetic Latinization of Osterreich. And is Germany/Germania Germanic? The Romans used the phase Germania. The modern inhabitants call themselves Deutsche, the country Deutschland.:scratch

Ireland is partly Germanic, an Anglicization of Eire > Eireland > Ireland.

And don't forget America is Germanic, whether it is after King Henry VII or Amerigo Vespucci coming from Haimirich or Amalirich both Germanic.The point was not to transliterate names into other languages, but to affirm the etymological base. Thank you for pointing out "America".


The fact that Great Britain may derive from Celtic roots aside, England is of Germanic origin, and Scotland hails from an 11th century Germanicization of Scotia. The latter is an interesting case, as some cities and regions are highly reflective of Anglo-Saxon and Norse occupation through the centuries (Edinburgh, Sutherland [Su­rland], etc.).The point was to pick out top government names, not the names of subnational entities like England or Scotland. If we go that route you are suggesting, then why not Andalusia or Lombardy?

Hersir
Sunday, October 12th, 2008, 12:22 AM
The name for our continent could be interesting too: Skadinaujo;)

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Sunday, October 12th, 2008, 01:10 AM
Ayup, that would be the day! Perhaps if a newly revived Germanic Europe would use Scandinavia as the name, perhaps Germanic colonies could use the collective name "Nova Gothia".

Thusnelda
Sunday, October 12th, 2008, 02:25 AM
And is Germany/Germania Germanic? The Romans used the phase Germania. The modern inhabitants call themselves Deutsche, the country Deutschland.:scratch
"Deutsch" is an old German word, it originates from "theodisk/diutisk". The meaning of the word is "native/indigenious" as well as "those who speak the peoples language".

The "people language" was Old High German - in contrast to those circles who could speak Latin. So those who couldn┤t speak Latin were the "native ones". It was meant as a degradation of the common people in the first place. But as time drew on it became the self-designation of our people ("Proud to don┤t speak Latin but our own native language! :P " *g*).

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Sunday, October 12th, 2008, 02:34 AM
Valkyrie, I believe that is the self-definition of the term Slav, or at least there is a term used by them for the Germans which means the direct opposite.

There is the idea that the name German came from germaine and germination, sort of how Scandinavia was considered the womb of peoples. Goth, Geat and Jute are supposedly related to the term ingot, meaning to pour, as in an outpouring of a people. I believe my source for this was Jordanes, but could be mistaken.

Deutsch, aka Teutonic is probably related to Tyr, the one-handed warrior.

Chlodovech
Sunday, October 12th, 2008, 02:39 AM
Belgium and Bulgaria are related to "Wales", right? They all mean "foreign" in Germanic tongues, correct?

Wallonia, the name of the southern regio of romanized Belgium shares the same root word, but not Flanders, the Dutch speaking northern part of the country. Flanders, was called 'Flandris' in the 8th century in Latin writings, which means 'moor', or 'streaming' or 'flowing', and was derived from an earlier Celtic word for the area - which originally just described a part of the coastal area.

Dodenknoop
Sunday, October 12th, 2008, 11:10 AM
Indeed! I translate Vlaanderen, Fanders, ... always as 'flooded land'. Is it really a Celtic name?

Rik
Sunday, October 12th, 2008, 12:14 PM
Probarly Celtogermanic , Flanders sounds like a bastardised form of flood.
And Belgium also has a Celtogermanic origin.

Thusnelda
Sunday, October 12th, 2008, 01:15 PM
Valkyrie, I believe that is the self-definition of the term Slav, or at least there is a term used by them for the Germans which means the direct opposite.
I think that┤s wrong. From where did you get that? That "Deutsch" derives from "theodisk/diutisk" is common sense among linguists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodiscus

"Theodiscus, the latinised form of Germanic diutisc ("vernacular", "native" or "indigenous"), is a Middle Latin adjective referring to the Germanic vernaculars of the Early Middle Ages. The Old High German language in Latin sources of the time is referred to as theodisca lingua.

The use of theodisce/deutsch was first attested in 786 in a report to Pope Hadrian I. Texts from a synod held in Corbridge, England were read "tam latine quam theodisce" - "both in Latin and in the vernacular".

It is derived from Common Germanic *■eudiskaz. The stem of this word, *■euda, meant "people" in Common Germanic...The opposite, describing anything foreign or strange, is walhisk (welsh), which was used to refer to Roman or Celtic people.

Ultimately, the word is traced back to Proto-Indo-European language *teuta, meaning "tribe".

I hope this could help you? :)


There is the idea that the name German came from germaine and germination, sort of how Scandinavia was considered the womb of peoples.
Deutsch, aka Teutonic is probably related to Tyr, the one-handed warrior.
These theories are also new to me. I don┤t think that there is truth in them, honestly.
"Teutonic" comes from "teuta", which means "tribe" in Proto European language.

NormanBlood
Sunday, October 12th, 2008, 02:48 PM
Belgium and Bulgaria are related to "Wales", right? They all mean "foreign" in Germanic tongues, correct?

The name Belgium comes from the Celtic tribe, or rather confederation of tribes, of the Belgae that inhabited the region during Caesar's conquest. I highly doubt they would have named themselves "foreigners". Perhaps you're thinking of Wallonia, which is, indeed, derived from walh (foreigner).

Bulgaria is also derived from the tribal name the Bulgars gave themselves, not at all related to "foreigner". I think in this case you're thinking of Wallachia (Romania).

The name Italy is not of Germanic origin either. Nations with Germanic names tended to be those that have had largely Germanic rulers for the greater part of their "recent" history.

Angelcynn Beorn
Sunday, October 12th, 2008, 04:07 PM
The point was to pick out top government names, not the names of subnational entities like England or Scotland. If we go that route you are suggesting, then why not Andalusia or Lombardy?

Because England is the oldest state in Europe and has been around continuously since the time of Alfred the Great at the very latest. The state of England didn't cease to exist when the monarchies of Scotland and England were unified. Hence why they are still differentiated in law to this day.

It should also be pointed out that both Germany and Austria are derived from Latin words. As somebody already pointed out, the Germans call themselves Deutsche. And the word Austria - and it's German equivalent of Osterreich - are both derived from the Latin term for the region Marchia Orientalis, which it was given during the days of the Holy Roman Empire.

Chlodovech
Sunday, October 12th, 2008, 06:17 PM
The name Belgium comes from the Celtic tribe, or rather confederation of tribes, of the Belgae that inhabited.

Yes, the Belgae had their habitat roughly in Northern France and Belgium, although the eastern part of modern Flanders (the provinces of Antwerp, Limburg, Brabant) was considered to be 'Germania inferior' by the Romans. Part of Flanders was still flooded at the time, and not really hospitable, that's why the Belgae prefered France and Wallonia as an area for settlements.

The Belgae themselves are increasingly more labeled as (predominately or almost completely) Germanic by the Belgian academic world and media. But it's an ongoing debate. There was definitely a Celtic component to be found in the Belgae, to which extent is not known. But the Eburonic tribesman Ambiorix who revolted against the Romans was of Germanic origin.

However, the Belgae have not that much to do with Flemish culture and my ancestors anyway - as the Frankish settlement in scarcely populated Flanders drove those "Gallic" tribes southward. In that light it was historically not very accurate to name this country 'Belgium' when it was formed in the 19th century - because the young state needed a historical justification of its own right to exist, something which is not a good thing for independent academical research. It sounds ironic, but it's our forefathers who drove the "Belgians" off their lands. ;)


Indeed! I translate Vlaanderen, Fanders, ... always as 'flooded land'. Is it really a Celtic name?

Frans-Jozef has many linguistic qualities, maybe he'll be able to tell something more, but to the best of my knowledge, it is. I don't ought it impossible that the Franks adopted an old Celtic name for Flanders.

Liemannen
Sunday, October 12th, 2008, 06:41 PM
There's also New Zealand, which comes from the Danish SŠl-land or Seal land.

Well, I'm certainly no expert on this but from what I've heard the meaning of Zealand (SjŠlland) as "seal land" is disputed. Land in SjŠlland probably refers to a Danish word for many or plentiful. One theory is that SjŠlland means "lots of seals" but another one is that it means "many fjords".

About Denmark (Danmark), I've been told that it's a German expression for "the land that borders to the Danes" which is supposed to, originally, refer to Schleswig (Slesvig) on Southern Jutland (Jylland), as the Danes mainly lived on Zealand (SjŠlland). Why they were called Danes nobody knows.

Sweden (Sverige) simply means "the land of the Swedes" (Svearnas rike). Why the Swedes were called Swedes is also a mystery but an area called Sve■iu■, or Svitjod in modern writing, have been identified as the land around lake Mńlaren, where todays Stockholm is located.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Sunday, October 12th, 2008, 08:13 PM
Because England is the oldest state in Europe and has been around continuously since the time of Alfred the Great at the very latest. The state of England didn't cease to exist when the monarchies of Scotland and England were unified. Hence why they are still differentiated in law to this day.

It should also be pointed out that both Germany and Austria are derived from Latin words. As somebody already pointed out, the Germans call themselves Deutsche. And the word Austria - and it's German equivalent of Osterreich - are both derived from the Latin term for the region Marchia Orientalis, which it was given during the days of the Holy Roman Empire.Oh, how I "relish" the fundamentalist unhappiness when subnational entities of the UK don't want to be reconciled within the name of their top government, sort of like how the Basques and others in Spain are all separatist. Relax. If I wanted this discussion to be about subnational entities, I am very certain there would be many more names to fit this topic. Since some of you are already at it though and have proven that you cannot contain your enthusiasm for bucking the name "Britain", then why not?


Yes, the Belgae had their habitat roughly in Northern France and Belgium, although the eastern part of modern Flanders (the provinces of Antwerp, Limburg, Brabant) was considered to be 'Germania inferior' by the Romans. Part of Flanders was still flooded at the time, and not really hospitable, that's why the Belgae prefered France and Wallonia as an area for settlements.

The Belgae themselves are increasingly more labeled as (predominately or almost completely) Germanic by the Belgian academic world and media. But it's an ongoing debate. There was definitely a Celtic component to be found in the Belgae, to which extent is not known. But the Eburonic tribesman Ambiorix who revolted against the Romans was of Germanic origin.

However, the Belgae have not that much to do with Flemish culture and my ancestors anyway - as the Frankish settlement in scarcely populated Flanders drove those "Gallic" tribes southward. In that light it was historically not very accurate to name this country 'Belgium' when it was formed in the 19th century - because the young state needed a historical justification of its own right to exist, something which is not a good thing for independent academical research. It sounds ironic, but it's our forefathers who drove the "Belgians" off their lands. ;)



Frans-Jozef has many linguistic qualities, maybe he'll be able to tell something more, but to the best of my knowledge, it is. I don't ought it impossible that the Franks adopted an old Celtic name for Flanders.Here is another example of the diminishment of the Celtic component in Europe. With the names of countries Belgium and Luxembourg, Great Britain and Ireland, one could see the remnants of the Celts in Europe. Why some are so hostile to this and would seek to displace these names or interpretations in favour of Germanic forms, I do not care to follow. I accept the Celtic element without feeling the "need" to trash it, like insisting on the English or Flemish element in these nations. The Celtic fringe is already so small; leave them be. There are certainly enough Germanic country names to go around. On the other hand, I can perfectly see how England could be the name for all the British Isles as they all speak English and such is the case with the name for France--they all speak French. Perhaps subnational Celtic names would be better for the British Isles, for Celtic languages are used on a local basis. I do not have an opinion on old Gallia Belgica, but their pre-Roman relationship to the British Isles is well known. I am of the opinion that the Celtic element in Germany was what permitted the shift of the borders of Rome to include Germany. For instance, the name Germania was used for provinces of Gaul. This was the means by which Germany became integrated into the Roman system. Of course, Germans probably despise that idea, but their protest would be illogical considering Charlemagne and the Treaty of Verdun which led to Germany being the focal point of Rome in the West.


The name Belgium comes from the Celtic tribe, or rather confederation of tribes, of the Belgae that inhabited the region during Caesar's conquest. I highly doubt they would have named themselves "foreigners". Perhaps you're thinking of Wallonia, which is, indeed, derived from walh (foreigner).

Bulgaria is also derived from the tribal name the Bulgars gave themselves, not at all related to "foreigner". I think in this case you're thinking of Wallachia (Romania).

The name Italy is not of Germanic origin either. Nations with Germanic names tended to be those that have had largely Germanic rulers for the greater part of their "recent" history.I myself believe the theory of Bulgar coming from Volga, but there is no reason not to tie together with Belgae, Wallachia, Wallonia and Wales. The Volcae were a Gallic tribe. Perhaps some people forget that the Celts were a widespread people who lived on the borders of the Roman Empire from the British Isles to Anatolia, within and without.

NormanBlood
Monday, October 13th, 2008, 05:34 PM
I myself believe the theory of Bulgar coming from Volga, but there is no reason not to tie together with Belgae, Wallachia, Wallonia and Wales. The Volcae were a Gallic tribe. Perhaps some people forget that the Celts were a widespread people who lived on the borders of the Roman Empire from the British Isles to Anatolia, within and without.

Not matter your theories, we are speaking of etymology here. Belgae is not etymologically connected to walh (foreigner), but is rather derived from a Celtic root. Similarly, Bulgar is neither derived from walh. This much is certain. My impression was that this topic was about Germanic country names, Bulgaria and Belgium are not Germanic country names.

Jute
Monday, October 13th, 2008, 07:35 PM
And is Germany/Germania Germanic? The Romans used the phrase Germania. The modern inhabitants call themselves Deutsche, the country Deutschland.:scratchIt is puzzling that all of Germany's neighbors call it something different. Not slight changes in pronunciation to accommodate the language, but totally different roots:

German: Deutschland
English: Germany [from latin Germania]
Dutch: Duitsland
Danish/Norwegian/Swedish: Tyskland
Finnish/Estonian: Saksa/Saksamaa
Latvian/Lithuanian: Vacija/Vokietija
Spanish/French/Portuguese: Allemannia/Allemagne/Alemanha
Italian: Tedesco (language), or Germania (country)
Polish: Niemcy [Interestingly, I have been told this word is a plural in Polish..."The Germanies"; And, less flatteringly, that it comes from the root meaning "idiot".]
South & West Slavic languages: Nyemacka/Nemecko

Am I missing some other distinctive ones?

Angelcynn Beorn
Wednesday, October 15th, 2008, 02:36 PM
Oh, how I "relish" the fundamentalist unhappiness when subnational entities of the UK don't want to be reconciled within the name of their top government

Well since you want to take that sort of condescending tone, i feel now is as good a time as any to point out that 'Great Britain' is not the name of this country or it's 'top government'.

Nation refers to a group of people with a common shared ethnic bond (see Tony Linsell for more clarification on this), while state refers to the bureaucratic institute which claims sovereignty over a given area and passes laws within it.

The name of my nation is England (Germanic). The name of the state i live in is the United Kingdom (Latin-Germanic). So get off your high horse about 'Great Britain', it's boring.

Hama
Monday, November 6th, 2017, 06:10 AM
I agree with this, Angelcynn Beorn -

The name of my nation is England (Germanic). The name of the state i live in is the United Kingdom (Latin-Germanic). So get off your high horse about 'Great Britain', it's boring.
Great Britain is the name of the largest island in the British Isles. It contains 3 nations - England (Germanic without a doubt) Wales (originally Celtic but now mostly mixed with English blood) and Scotland (as Wales).

To say that England is not Germanic is wrong. Great Britain was an island of Romano Celts, conquered by my ancestors from Northern Germany/Southern Denmark.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Tuesday, January 2nd, 2018, 04:48 AM
Yes, the Belgae had their habitat roughly in Northern France and Belgium, although the eastern part of modern Flanders (the provinces of Antwerp, Limburg, Brabant) was considered to be 'Germania inferior' by the Romans. Part of Flanders was still flooded at the time, and not really hospitable, that's why the Belgae prefered France and Wallonia as an area for settlements.

The Belgae themselves are increasingly more labeled as (predominately or almost completely) Germanic by the Belgian academic world and media. But it's an ongoing debate. There was definitely a Celtic component to be found in the Belgae, to which extent is not known. But the Eburonic tribesman Ambiorix who revolted against the Romans was of Germanic origin.

However, the Belgae have not that much to do with Flemish culture and my ancestors anyway - as the Frankish settlement in scarcely populated Flanders drove those "Gallic" tribes southward. In that light it was historically not very accurate to name this country 'Belgium' when it was formed in the 19th century - because the young state needed a historical justification of its own right to exist, something which is not a good thing for independent academical research. It sounds ironic, but it's our forefathers who drove the "Belgians" off their lands. ;)



Frans-Jozef has many linguistic qualities, maybe he'll be able to tell something more, but to the best of my knowledge, it is. I don't ought it impossible that the Franks adopted an old Celtic name for Flanders.

Dutchmen in Belgium and Englishmen in Britain share a similar situation, by inhabiting lands named for those who were displaced by their ancestors.

It's ironic how France didn't revert to Gaul during the Neoclassical Enlightenment and its Romantic nationalism. One would have thought that Corsicans in power would have tipped the balance in their own favor, but Napoleon was adamant that he was restoring the empire of Charlemagne rather than Augustus and so, adopted the Merovingian bee motifs, although not the toads, for some reason.

Knut
Wednesday, January 3rd, 2018, 05:30 AM
It is puzzling that all of Germany's neighbors call it something different. Not slight changes in pronunciation to accommodate the language, but totally different roots:

German: Deutschland
English: Germany [from latin Germania]
Dutch: Duitsland
Danish/Norwegian/Swedish: Tyskland
Finnish/Estonian: Saksa/Saksamaa
Latvian/Lithuanian: Vacija/Vokietija
Spanish/French/Portuguese: Allemannia/Allemagne/Alemanha
Italian: Tedesco (language), or Germania (country)
Polish: Niemcy [Interestingly, I have been told this word is a plural in Polish..."The Germanies"; And, less flatteringly, that it comes from the root meaning "idiot".]
South & West Slavic languages: Nyemacka/Nemecko

Am I missing some other distinctive ones?

The name of germany in "scandinavian" comes most likely from the german word thiot meaning members of the people, the name tyskland most likely came to life around the middle ages when south of scandinavia was almost like a german province.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Friday, January 5th, 2018, 05:21 AM
I'm also of the opinion that Tyr and Teuton are related.