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Nachtengel
Wednesday, October 1st, 2008, 09:05 AM
Is Skadi Germanics only or not?

It's a question for the adminship. Can non-Germanics join Skadi? If I have non-Germanic white and non-white friends who are interested in Germanic things should I feel free to invite them for example to this forum. I know some countries are IP banned, so I'm wondering.

I know the members have opinions and more opinions on this but I want to know what the official stance on this is.

Thanks. :)

Maelstrom
Wednesday, October 1st, 2008, 09:18 AM
1a: This is a board for people of Germanic heritage. Views, ideas, and contributions that are hostile to Germanics or their heritage are not permitted.

1b: The account of Members that are judged to be, even if only partly ethnically non-Germanic, may be unappealably terminated if their contributions, either individually or in combination with the contributions of other such members, either by force of their numbers or their impact, are increasingly considered a risk to the integrity of or a burden to Skadi Forum, its Mission Statement, or its Germanic community.

I believe I may have posted an incorrect response to you in another thread.

My personal interpretation of these rules is that Skadi is a forum for Germanics. Though people of partial or non-Germanic ancestry can join if they are interested in Germanic preservation and all other things Germanic. If their posts become anti-Germanic they will face a ban.

I believe this was the case with a small Finnish group who used to post on Skadi; their posts began to convey anti-Swedish sentiments and so their accounts were terminated.

Hopefully that clarifies some things. That's my take on it, but hey, I'm no Moderator :)

Thusnelda
Wednesday, October 1st, 2008, 02:01 PM
The board targets to attract other Germanics. :) Non-Germanics will end up banned in general. But we make some exclusions for Non-Germanics who show constant and serious interest for Germanic issues and who participate actively in these discussions (Blood Axis is a positive example for these members).

So a non-Germanic member mustn´t post Anti-Germanic things to end up banned. Posting nothing of significance for the Germanic cause is already reason enough for the staff to interfere.

Anyway, we aren´t going to make too many exclusions since this may lead to a dilution of our board goals. It´s a small line, honestly.

Carl
Wednesday, October 1st, 2008, 02:04 PM
I agree. If people are clearly anti-Germanic they will not be welcomed on a Germanic Board. There are also current technical requirements that their world location will need to be ISP appropriate - otherwise they wont be able to log in anyway. For the most part, this means Germanic Lands of settlement.

Leofric
Wednesday, October 1st, 2008, 07:39 PM
Though people of partial or non-Germanic ancestry can join if they are interested in Germanic preservation and all other things Germanic. If their posts become anti-Germanic they will face a ban.
Like Valkyrie said, it's not just if their posts become anti-Germanic that they face a ban. If non-Germanics are posting about things that aren't specifically Germanic, that's enough for a ban.

We've had problems in the past with non-Germanics joining in order to discuss Serbian politics or Hinduism or other similar things. That's not anti-Germanic, but it does nothing at all to help advance the forum mission and simply dilutes the forum.

The same goes for non-Germanics who want to spend their time participating primarily in classification threads or general conviviality threads. It just dilutes our community.

But if Jorge Luis Borges, who knew Old English very well, had wanted to join (though his life and Skaid's didn't overlap) solely for the purpose of discussing Anglo-Saxon literature and his contributions weren't at all disrespectful of the preservation and perpetuation of our heritage, I would never have banned him for being non-Germanic.

Siebenbürgerin
Thursday, October 2nd, 2008, 10:08 AM
The answer isn't so simple. The new administrator has impemented a IP ban of non-Germanic countries. The purpose is to limit our audience to Germanics as much as possible. But there are two disadvantages about it: it blocks the access of Germanics living in non-Germanic countries while permitting it to non-Germanics living in Germanic countries. But there's a solution. We unban the IPs of Germanics in non-Germanic countries and ban the non-Germanics from Germanic countries manually. We can't exempt the non-Germanics from Germanic countries, especially from the New World just because of their location. Skadi is a forum dedicated to Germanics. We allowed non-Germanic people on the Althing but the majority didn't post Germanic themes. So now if there is a non-Germanic person who wants to join and is specifically interested only in Germanic themes and has something of exceptional value to contribute, in my view he should be allowed. He could send a mail and the administrator could decide. Needless to say, we have some non-Germanic members who are regulars and who were here since the Skadi days. But they're the exception, not the rule.

Þórir
Thursday, October 2nd, 2008, 11:14 AM
The user who was the reason for this thread in the first place, Huszar (http://forums.skadi.net/member.php?u=25897), has been banned and his intro thread deleted even though that was his only post. Maybe a message should be placed in the Skadi Welcome box that's visible to guests warning them that if they are non-Germanic and sign up they are going to be banned anyway? Isn't that only fair to the guest who ponders singing up?

Maelstrom
Thursday, October 2nd, 2008, 12:13 PM
The user who was the reason for this thread in the first place, Huszar (http://forums.skadi.net/member.php?u=25897), has been banned and his intro thread deleted even though that was his only post. Maybe a message should be placed in the Skadi Welcome box that's visible to guests warning them that if they are non-Germanic and sign up they are going to be banned anyway? Isn't that only fair to the guest who ponders singing up?

I'm not trying to cause a scene here, but how do we know he had nothing decent to contribute to the forum? Bearing this in mind I daresay the minority of non-Germanic members here would probably not survive if they were signing up to this forum now. So how is this action/lack of action consistant?

Perhaps non-Germanic members who are interested in Germanic preservation could have their accounts modified so they are able to read posts, yet not post themselves? I am not trying to promote multiculturalism or anything of the sort, but if such a status was implimented perhaps it could make better a bad situation ie Non-Germanics who reside in Germanic nations may be able to learn things about our Germanic communities, heritage and culture.

Was just a thought to put out there. I find the current status quo cruisey enough anyway.

Bärin
Thursday, October 2nd, 2008, 12:21 PM
Why make exceptions at all? Don't we have enough multiculturalism in real life? :thumbdown

Thusnelda
Thursday, October 2nd, 2008, 01:38 PM
I'm not trying to cause a scene here, but how do we know he had nothing decent to contribute to the forum? Bearing this in mind I daresay the minority of non-Germanic members here would probably not survive if they were signing up to this forum now. So how is this action/lack of action consistant?
Because of a matter of inconsistence we´ve encountered during internal discussions about that case. As Siebenbürgerin said, we already auto-ban IPs from Non-Germanic countries. So people from there have no opportunity to register at all. What is the difference between a Non-Germanic from Canada and a Non-Germanic from Hungary (like in this case)? The difference is the location. If huszar would reside in his home-country (hungary) he wouldn´t have even got the chance to register here. He could only register because he´s currently residing in Canada.

The inconsistence is the "unfairness" because some people can bypass the natural auto-ban only because of their current location outside of their homecountry.

Consequence: As long as the Auto-IP-Ban is active we extend it generally to users who would be banned by it if they were in their lands of ethnic origin, no matter where their current location is. Exceptional cases can petition through email or something of that nature (I stole parts of the sentence from Leofric :D *g* ).


Perhaps non-Germanic members who are interested in Germanic preservation could have their accounts modified so they are able to read posts, yet not post themselves?
This is unneeded because unregistered users can already read most parts of the board. :)

Old Winter
Thursday, October 2nd, 2008, 01:57 PM
Celts too :highfive

OneEnglishNorman
Thursday, October 2nd, 2008, 04:44 PM
Could the IP block be de-activated for registered established members? For example SineNomine cannot log in right now.

Leofric
Thursday, October 2nd, 2008, 09:23 PM
Could the IP block be de-activated for registered established members? For example SineNomine cannot log in right now.
Isn't SineNomine Germanic?

We have no special desire to block out expatriate Germanics simply because they live in largely non-Germanic areas. Those Germanics who are adversely affected by the IP ban because they live in non-Germanic countries should send an email to the adminstration about that (there's a link for that with the page that notifies you of an IP ban).

Oswiu
Thursday, October 2nd, 2008, 09:42 PM
Celts too :highfive
That does not necessarily follow.
Celts with Germanic ancestry and an honest interest in exploring that are more than welcome. In the real world, almost all Celts could potentially qualify.

Celts who are not covered by the above and who moreover entertain a deluded 'victims' view' of history and are here to basically whinge about the English are as unwelcome as any San Bushman with a bee in his bonnet about Boers.

TheGreatest
Friday, October 3rd, 2008, 12:10 AM
My understanding the ban is in place because of Trolls.


Granted by law of statistic there is has to be at least one Frenchmen, Russian or Italian who is...


1. Germanic Looking
2. Germanic-phone
3. Looking to reconnect with their Germanic heritage.


But we know this is an exception to the rule. If Russia was taken off the list, I imagine hordes of trolls (most of whom look like recently civilized Mongols) will be hacking the website, claiming Englishman descend from Russian fishermen, brag about banging their blue-eyed blond Dutch girlfriend, et cetera.


This is only worsen a hundred fold especially if we allow non-white countries like Brazil, China and India to post. Indians and Iranians in particular are for a lack of better word a bunch of retards. Indians and Iranians in particular like to claim to be German, Aryan or whatnot, something of which I think we've all seen at one point or another.

Sigurd
Friday, October 3rd, 2008, 12:47 AM
Valky - and I suppose you're also stealing my Kudos for being the first in the internal discussion to state that there was an inconsistency then between non-Germanics in Europe and non-Germanics in the colonies, eh? :D

Either way, it hath been stated already in this thread - it would be extremely unfair if we are going to disallow Italians, French, Finns or Hungarians if in their native country


Isn't SineNomine Germanic? Is he not to a substantial part Germanic (Dutch and Greek ancestors I believe?) who is interested in Germanic preservation, and residing in a Germanic country (England)? How come he is unable to access? I was under the belief that there should have been no issue as to his account? :|



Why make exceptions at all? Don't we have enough multiculturalism in real life? :thumbdown

First the factual point, nationalism & preservation does not equal isolation. In fact, you'd find that even during Adolf Hitler's time there was a good deal of foreigners that were accepted and cherished, under certain circumstances. Even though we're talking about Germanic countries there in these famous cases - but I seem to recall that Unity Mitford and Lord Haw-Haw were as English (thus not German) in their ancestry as it gets. ;)

Secondly - So your first wish is thus to see, for example, Blood Axis (http://forums.skadi.net/member.php?u=24890) banned (as she is not fully Germanic, and does not reside in a Germanic country), right? I suggest you turn around and tell her that into her face. :| Her case is for example on of those "exceptions" - and I would assume that at least 99.8% of the membership would agree that she has earned her right to be here for the interest she has and the extent she has gone to aid Germanic preservation, especially as her service to this forum is concerned.

Exceptions are BTW not made easily, so far some Finns, Italians, Spaniards or Russians with 2000+ posts have no access to the forum at present.

And, hypothetically speaking, I wouldn't think that too many would chuck a (Southern-Italian born and bred) Julius Evola off board if he were still alive to partake in these discussions for the value his works entail to those who favour the more traditionalist path to Germanic preservation. ;)

Grimm
Friday, October 3rd, 2008, 01:31 AM
I belonged to one of these forums a while back (it might have even been Skadi), and I quit in no time because it was full of Serbians and Croats. These two groups were very focused on themselves and seemed to have no interest in things Germanic.

The moderators here seem to do a good job of keeping out non-Germanics who don't show a genuine interest in Germanic issues. However imagine how much harder it would be for them if they weren't blocking certain countries. Can you imagine how much more nonsense they'd have to sift through? I think things are good the way they are.


Even though we're talking about Germanic countries there in these famous cases - but I seem to recall that Unity Mitford and Lord Haw-Haw were as English (thus not German) in their ancestry as it gets. ;)

. ;)

Your famous example proves nothing, because as you said yourself, "we're talking about Germanic countries there in these famous cases".;)

Bärin
Friday, October 3rd, 2008, 01:51 AM
First the factual point, nationalism & preservation does not equal isolation. In fact, you'd find that even during Adolf Hitler's time there was a good deal of foreigners that were accepted and cherished, under certain circumstances. Even though we're talking about Germanic countries there in these famous cases - but I seem to recall that Unity Mitford and Lord Haw-Haw were as English (thus not German) in their ancestry as it gets. ;)
In case you haven't noticed, I'm not a Hitlerist or National Socialist, so I don't care what was allowed in Hitler's time.


Secondly - So your first wish is thus to see, for example, Blood Axis (http://forums.skadi.net/member.php?u=24890) banned (as she is not fully Germanic, and does not reside in a Germanic country), right? I suggest you turn around and tell her that into her face. :|
Her case is for example on of those "exceptions" - and I would assume that at least 99.8% of the membership would agree that she has earned her right to be here for the interest she has and the extent she has gone to aid Germanic preservation, especially as her service to this forum is concerned.
Here we go again, you try to modify people's views by making it personal. I don't have such a problem however. A foreigner is a foreigner is a foreigner, nice or not and Blood Axis too falls into the category of non-Germanic, so foreign.

This is how xenophilia starts. You accept a foreign friend because he is nice, you accept one more, one more and one more and because you're afraid not to offend him, you stop speaking against foreigners and even start to speak in their defense. I see it all the time. Everyone has a nice foreign friend. If they were all allowed to stay, we would be a multiculti mishmash of 1,000 ethnicities and no one would be barred anymore.


Exceptions are BTW not made easily, so far some Finns, Italians, Spaniards or Russians with 2000+ posts have no access to the forum at present.
Thankfully.


And, hypothetically speaking, I wouldn't think that too many would chuck a (Southern-Italian born and bred) Julius Evola off board if he were still alive to partake in these discussions for the value his works entail to those who favour the more traditionalist path to Germanic preservation. ;)
Yes yes, another example by which you try to make us sensitive to accept the foreigners. Julius Evola belongs not on a board which is dedicated to Germanics either because he isn't Germanic.

Why do you call it a "forum for people of Germanic heritage" if it can be swarmed by foreigners? Is it a forum for Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, Croats? What's next? Turks living in Germany? African Negers? Thiazi accepted them once.

TheGreatest
Friday, October 3rd, 2008, 02:22 AM
I belonged to one of these forums a while back (it might have even been Skadi), and I quit in no time because it was full of Serbians and Croats. These two groups were very focused on themselves and seemed to have no interest in things Germanic.


Sounds like Stormfront. Stormfront had a lot of problems with Balkanites causing all sort of troubles. Had being the key word.


Stormfront itself has had a controversial year or two. They banned the Swastika and in the process eliminated the dress up National Socialists and Skinheads.
Though Stormfront does not explicity state a racial policy (other than ''looking white''), but it is assumed to be Northern/Central Europid. I kid you not but if your a normal Greek or Russian (generally the average Greek and Russian looks ''mixed'' and ''non-white'' compared to most Europeans/Americans) and you post a picture, the moderation team will quickly show you the way out.

Sigurd
Friday, October 3rd, 2008, 02:40 AM
In case you haven't noticed, I'm not a Hitlerist or National Socialist, so I don't care what was allowed in Hitler's time.

It makes no difference as to whether you are a National Socialist, a Liberal or a funding member of the Moster Raving Loony Party ... I used Hitler as an example because some people tend to base their rationale in nationalism = isolation. Amongst the examples of nationalist politics on German soil, Hitler stands out as the most prominent, and undoubtedly "most radical" example - thus stating that "even he" allowed a certain contingent of foreigners to do their bidding if their presence was clearly conducive to the building of a folk-centred state, then it disproves as such the assumption that nationalism = isolation.

You will have to learn the difference between illustrating by an example and arguing ad hominem, if you failed to get that cross-reference correctly. Alternatively, I can take the blame for not stating "explicitly enough" that I used him as an example; though I felt it was rather obvious by the use of the phrase even [then].


Here we go again, you try to modify people's views by making it personal. I don't have such a problem however.Of course the logicist would probably call this an ad hominem fallacy of some sort, but the power of that fallacy is that it works. If your mother were wheelchair-bound and a gypsy, but you believed in euthanasia for either - if I pointed your mother's case out to you, you'd have to argue a way out of the purported hypocrisy.

A fallacy of argument, I will admit - but usually an effective one. ;)


A foreigner is a foreigner is a foreigner, nice or not and Blood Axis too falls into the category of non-Germanic, so foreign."A banana's a banana's a banana". Sure it is - but would you disallow a foreign guest in your house if he had previously undertaken substantial efforts for your benefit, selflessly?

The line to be drawn is one step up from The Althing's stance on non-Germanics. But this still allows for exceptions to be made in rare, exceptional cases that are tried on a case-to-case basis.

Blood Axis, as the example used, has probably shown more interest for Germanics and Germanic preservation than several Germanic members of the board (who will remain unmentioned as I dislike pointing at negative examples) and has worked towards the advancement of such on this board for several years, without ever pushing an agenda (unlike others who were peripherally Germanic at best, but sought to establish kinship on another basis). She is accepted as a true friend of Germanics as having shown such over a period of time.


This is how xenophilia starts. You accept a foreign friend because he is nice, you accept one more, one more and one more and because you're afraid not to offend him, you stop speaking against foreigners and even start to speak in their defense.First of all, I have always stated that friendship and mutual respect between members of different cultures is not an issue, as long as the boundaries are clear to both sides. If he has done a great deal to advance your cause, then you are willing to have him as a guest.

I hear that the Iron Cross was once to be given out to a WWII soldier of substantial Jewish heritage (though he refused to accept the honour), he was put forward for this honour - albeit not as a German in any way shape or form; with all racial laws prohibiting cross-marriage in place, etc. etc. etc. - as a person, who although "ethnically undesirable", had done a great deal of service to the military effort of the Axis.

If you had a random Russian friend who had a romantic fancy for the goddess Freya, chances are that we would turn him down for membership; but if he had written several books on the advance of the "Germanic cause" as it were, then we might be pushed to consider letting him in on the basis of exemplary behaviour, no pushing of hostile agendas, and showing off his excellent academic knowledge about Germanics as well as his devotion to furthering our cause.

It is of course clear that any non-Germanic member we will accept at this stage will be kept at a much shorter leash, as logically we will be more likely to extend leniency in regard to the rules to our own kind than to those we have accepted as guests in our "guest bedroom".

Boundaries would of course have to be clear, so if a guest "doesn't keep his fingers off my sister" then he's obviously outwelcomed his stay.


I see it all the time. Everyone has a nice foreign friend. If they were all allowed to stay, we would be a multiculti mishmash of 1,000 ethnicities and no one would be barred anymore.Himmler logic, eh? Of course that is the reason why the "Jewish question" back in the days had to be dealt with as a whole rather than in part - however exceptions were still allowed. For example, cross-marriages would have been allowed between ethnic Germans and quarter-Jews at best, with interbreeding with half-Jews being illegal ... but a case-to-case analysis being possible where the half-Jew in question was "assimilable" in terms of upbringing and racial compatibility. Chances are this happened in less than 100 cases (no source available, a tentative guess).

Call it "forum nazism" all you will - but it will still lie at the administration's discretion as to when a case for an exception will be granted, and when it will not be granted. But rest assured, we will never transgress a certain quota, as not to ruin the unique feel of the board, and admissions to non-Germanics will at the current stage only be made in exceptional circumstances, and a large deal of the case analysis will be based on merit, whether that be in regards to wider preservationist circles on the net, or off the net.


Yes yes, another example by which you try to make us sensitive to accept the foreigners. Julius Evola belongs not on a board which is dedicated to Germanics either because he isn't Germanic.Though chances are that an argument could be made that his interest and contribution were sufficient to allow that he lodge here as a guest of sorts. If you were going to have a debate in the circle of your university debating group, you might still wish to invite, based on merit, a scholar from a different university, to offer his views on the matter if you feel that he is a sufficient authority on such matters.


Why do you call it a "forum for people of Germanic heritage" if it can be swarmed by foreigners? Occasional exceptions does not equal "being swarmed". We have learnt from the past, and again, admissions for non-Germanics will only be permitted in exceptional circumstances, just like we might reduce a permanent ban to a temporary ban only in exceptional circumstances. The problem is not their actual presence, but the mass in which they were previously present, and in their conduct. If the mass is kept at a reasonably low level, let's say hypothetically, two exceptions per year - then that will likely add a bit of salt to the soup without oversalting it.


Is it a forum for Greeks, Bulgarians, Serbs, Croats? What's next? Turks living in Germany? African Negers? Thiazi accepted them once.And as far as I am aware, Thiazi still accepts them. Thiazi would accept anyone who can argue their point in a civil manner, applying to the common sense of the general membership to beat them down if needed.

And even then, Thiazi was never swarmed with them, I seem to recall one supposedly Jewish member, one or two anti-Nationalist members and one African member ... all of which did not upset the overall atmosphere too much because they came in small portions. If they'd had the same swarm as we have previously had, then they might have obviously also applied a blanket ban except for the few that were considered "safe".

rainman
Friday, October 3rd, 2008, 02:52 AM
maybe a bit off topic but what would you consider "Germanic"?

Blonde haired and blue eyed? %100 lineage traced back to a historic German tribe all the way back to the middle ages? This is something I addressed on stormfront (which my account is deleted now). Which I noticed there are a lot of people with a lot of interest in race and ethnicity but who do not really have any education on the subject (such as genetics or racial history etc.). Instead conveying some crude 19th century concept of race.

Is being Germanic about who one's ancestors are? If so what ancestors (the parents? Grandparents? The ones of the 13th century?)

Or is being Germanic about the genes? A particular character and look mostly inherited. These are two different things.

A person can be born of "pure" ancestors and not be very Germanic. Just a basic example would be what if someone had a genetic mutation that gave them black skin? Are they still Germanic? Or if born with three legs? Still Germanic?

Likewise if we go solely by "purity" we have to have some standard or else no one is "pure". We have to say "trace your lineage back 5 generations in a Germanic community as a German" which can't be done now because say if you live in America or Germany the community is multicultural it isn't a Germanic community. Maybe say your family must come from a Germanic nation in the 1700s. That would be a good definition.

The way I see it is basically the folkish way as it was seen by Germanic communities in the past. More or less I don't consider an ethnicity to be an individual thing. It is more about a community. Being born into that community and being part of it. Occasionally those of outside blood (if compatable) can marry into the group.

By the way stormfront takes a rather illogical stance that if you have %2 Native American in you for example and you never mention it then you are accepted, but if you bring it up then you are kicked out. I guess a culture of dishonesty is seen as best.

I'll just use myself as an example. I have Norman blood in me via England. So we would call this "Germanic". But the Normans came to England via France. They were thus French. But before that they were Norwegian Vikings. Before that who knows. So depending on your point of reference it is Germanic or it isn't. Another example I have Celt in me via England etc. similar circumstances. I also have %2.5 Native American. Nor can I rule out that I don't have a similar amount of Ashkenazi Jew in me. Which I guess you guys would consider trolls, but in fact many of their ancestors started out as Aryan Europeans who converted. Which is a genetic and historical fact. Or let's dwell on the ideal of Native American for a minute. Native Americans themselves had varying degrees of European in them from the Vikings and from Stone Age migrations from Europe. With each of these examples you could get a totally different amount of "purity" depending on your point of reference. The most logical way to define it is if you can trace your ancestors back five generations and every ancestor conformed in appearance and behavior to the community. Though again today we live in a multicultural society of individuals which makes this increasingly hard. In fact without the community I don't think people can really be fully German.

Another consideration is if you have this highly racist ideal of genetic isolation I would beg of you to go to college, study genetics and then reconsider. I don't want to bring up all the details because I've already done it on stormfront which got my account disabled and had many replies by people who have no clue what they are talking about (stormfrong also considers people without an education to be 'smarter' than brainwashed college graduates- so go figure that one out). The fact that population have at least a very small amount of interbreeding is necessary for long term Genetic health anyway (one reason the Amish are running into problems) but it doesn't "stain" the blood because the community itself acts as an organism pushing out non conforming traits via discrimination and adherence to an ideal form of person via the culture and community.

Anyway all things to consider. Frankly though I'll repeat I think your ethnicity has a lot to do with the community you are part of and how you look, act, think and feel. Granted it isn't possibly to be Germanic without a large amount of Germanic ancestors but there is also a living community aspect. Being born to a certain ancestory in my opinion means nothing. If you adopt the cloak of another people over generations you will evolve to fit that mold of that culture and people, which comes to another point-

the Germanic ideal is dead. Christianity and now multiculturalism has changed the spirit. For anyone truly interested in pan-Germanism would know that it will take an evolution of our people to restore our blood to something healthy and sustainable. Most "Germans" today for example are weaklings and cowards. Something totally incompatable with Germanic culture. It is in their genes now due to over 1,000 years of Christianity killing off the brave and rewarding the "sheep" and now modern culture and so on. I think the question is fundamental to anybody wishing to preserve something to first define what it is (and what it isn't). You need a community and you need standards in that community (parameters of what is "normal" and what is not). Then logically there would be people in between. Those people who aren't ideal but nonetheless part of the community. A child born with three legs for example, or someone mixed. Otherwise you would be excluding a lot of people that wouldn't be logical. I'm not a Nazi but unlike modern racialists, folkists etc. the Nazis actually seemed educated on this fact. They realized two things 1) Germans of today are not ideal and also it is not their fault and wouldn't make sense to exclude them all from being part of the community that they were born into, know and love. 2) we need to restore the ideal.

Thus there were normal citizens who could even be up to 1/4 Jew. As long as they were majority Germanic heritage, born into the community, loyalt to the community, adhered to it etc. There were those part of the community but outside of normal "second class" citizens. The defective or severely non-conforming for example. And there was the elite "SS" those who conformed to the ideal completley. They had to trace this conformity back at least 5 generations. They were to disproportianately contribute their genes to help purify the group and bring it back toward the ideal.

Because for example what I tried to tell stormfront say you have this black guy that supports your cause. It doesn't make sense to insult him and isolate him and make an enemy out of a friend. It's insane. At the same time you can't accept this person as "one of us". What do you do? Same with someone who is %90 white. What is that person supposed to do? Consider the %10 stronger than the %90? People are born and raised in a culture that encourages them to race mix, it isn't exactly %100 their fault for conforming to what is normal to them. Yet at the same time you really risk diluting the purity of your group by letting in people who stray from the ideal. The most logical system is to include everyone and anyone who supports you (which is by far the best way to achieve success). Not only that but work on a positive image in public and try to purposely get more people to support you (of any race) not trying to threaten people or hate them but trying to draw support. But you have three levels of membership: 1. the ideal. 2. conforming but not ideal. 3. supporters. Each has different responsibilities and privledges. Ideal should not be based on purity alone but also involve the characteristics of the person. For example a person born of pure German blood who is a sociopathic liar and child molestor is not ideal. It is a combination of heritage and visible/measurable characteristics (mental and physical).

Similar even with the old system of Europe. You had nobility. An intermediate group that wasn't quite ideal who were the commoners, and then those outside the group, the "freaks" or whatever people born severely different or who were completely foreign but somehow a member of the group. Similar with the three divisions of Germanic society the jarl, karl and thrall. Similar in some ways to Indias caste system. Seems to be the most logical system.

So I don't know how you guys would define things, but that's just some background information for anyone serious about such issues.

Loyalist
Friday, October 3rd, 2008, 03:19 AM
Before we go on a witch-hunt to harass or ban non-Germanic members, the vast majority of whom have contributed to Skadi since day one, perhaps we should be more concerned with pursuing the self-denying, self-hating Germanic members of this community. You know, the ones who flood the board with inane and ridiculous posts about Germans not being Germanic, fratricidal anti-Colonialism, pan-Europeanism, etc. An outsider who shows at least a passing interest in Germanic issues is far more valuable, and far less injurious, to Skadi and its stated mission than members of our own group who contribute nonsense. There seems to be an unstated system of eliminating non-Germanics for even the slightest slip-up, while the content and quality of posts from Germanic members are ignored or not taken into consideration at all. I think we all know who the suspects are in this case.

Sigurd
Friday, October 3rd, 2008, 03:55 AM
Loyalist - This will deal with your post to some extent, but please do not feel targeted in any way, shape or form ... your post is just the ideal brief post that I have sort of been waiting for to help draw this discussion "to a close".

Well, one could clearly put forward the point of Germans being of Celto-Germanic heritage and one could even put forward the argument that Germans have some Slavic substrate as has been done before. One can surely argue the Colonial/Native European story back and forth, and one could go on about the question whether pan-Europeanism is automatically hostile to Germanic preservation.

All valid topics to some extent, but all cans of worms that have been opened before. To the question asked in this topic it is really not of much relevance. The original poster wanted a clarification on behalf of Staff as to who was allowed on board and who wasn't and to which lengths this extended. Her motives for this are unclear, but it does not matter - she wanted a clarification, not a possible drama kicked off again.

Several Staff members have voiced their opinions and have explained. This is what technically this section is for anyway - it is called "Help & Suggestions" and not "Debate of Staff decisions" for a reason. Technically, the topic has thus run its course, because the question at hands has been answered ... and because it has been discussed thoroughly.

There will always be people who are happy with a decision and those who are unhappy with a decision. Sure they may bring up a decision with which they are unhappy - and shall be able to bring that up, out of convention we have allowed certain decisions to be debatable, because we are anything but Forum Nazis, and we like our membership to be happy with our measures.

When it degrades into actual bickering back and forth, then that has sort of exceeded the intention of this subforum, really. A topic asking for clarification does not ask for everyone's opinion on a certain measure - either they accept the measure, advise a better option via a suggestion, or they are free to break the ruling of a measure at their own peril.

That being said - this topic has indeed run its course. I will however leave it open for the time being in the positive belief that order will come back, that some of this is actually taken to heart ... and not least because I would feel it an abuse of my own Staff power if I refused Bärin at least one more comment on the extensive reply I have given her on her initial scrutiny of my post.

I will gladly let her do that, because I have prompted it myself, and have thus committed as much of an error, but will myself rest my case as it stands, as it was never my intention in the first place to kick off a huge new debate. I have explained all that I have to explain, so if she wishes to argue with my most recent post, I will let her do that, but she will be talking as with a wall from here on.

In an attempt to close the can of worms I have failed to prevent myself from opening - and I will be the first to admit that error - I would also ask all others not to go further into detail of any other questions that could possible cause any type of drama for that's positively not what the topic was intended for. It asked for a clarification and that has been given. The question of the "Germanicness" of a certain ideology is irrelevant to such, for example - we've had that discussion hundreds of times before.

I will not close the topic at hand partially because what I have already stated about not being particularly exemplary per se and partially because it still serves some value and because further questions may yet arise - I would mind members that these questions should either be asked as soon as possible, or any other "bickering" be withheld ... because others may not be so lenient and decide to close the topic eventually for it having run its course.

(This is also a call of reason to you, Bärin - this time, be cleverer than I here, and be the one to let the case rest as it is. I am sure you find our constant arguing for reasons useless as tiresome as I do. :))

Bärin
Friday, October 3rd, 2008, 06:15 AM
It makes no difference as to whether you are a National Socialist, a Liberal or a funding member of the Moster Raving Loony Party ... I used Hitler as an example because some people tend to base their rationale in nationalism = isolation. Amongst the examples of nationalist politics on German soil, Hitler stands out as the most prominent, and undoubtedly "most radical" example - thus stating that "even he" allowed a certain contingent of foreigners to do their bidding if their presence was clearly conducive to the building of a folk-centred state, then it disproves as such the assumption that nationalism = isolation.
Hitler was not the most radical example of nationalist. He allowed pan-European views into his ideology.


You will have to learn the difference between illustrating by an example and arguing ad hominem, if you failed to get that cross-reference correctly. Alternatively, I can take the blame for not stating "explicitly enough" that I used him as an example; though I felt it was rather obvious by the use of the phrase even [then].

Of course the logicist would probably call this an ad hominem fallacy of some sort, but the power of that fallacy is that it works. If your mother were wheelchair-bound and a gypsy, but you believed in euthanasia for either - if I pointed your mother's case out to you, you'd have to argue a way out of the purported hypocrisy.

A fallacy of argument, I will admit - but usually an effective one. ;)
I still don't see why use this fallacy against me. I'm not the kind of person to argue for euthanasia but exclude a wheelchair-bound family member of acquaintance from it. If I wasn't clear enough, yes, if I ran a forum for Germanics, I'd ban all non-Germanics, Blood Axis included, and Julius Evola too if he was alive and signed up.


"A banana's a banana's a banana". Sure it is - but would you disallow a foreign guest in your house if he had previously undertaken substantial efforts for your benefit, selflessly?
Nothing is done selflessly, no one does something which has no benefits to them.


I hear that the Iron Cross was once to be given out to a WWII soldier of substantial Jewish heritage (though he refused to accept the honour), he was put forward for this honour - albeit not as a German in any way shape or form; with all racial laws prohibiting cross-marriage in place, etc. etc. etc. - as a person, who although "ethnically undesirable", had done a great deal of service to the military effort of the Axis.
Big mistake, as Jews are no Germans. Refusing it was the right thing.


Occasional exceptions does not equal "being swarmed". We have learnt from the past, and again, admissions for non-Germanics will only be permitted in exceptional circumstances, just like we might reduce a permanent ban to a temporary ban only in exceptional circumstances. The problem is not their actual presence, but the mass in which they were previously present, and in their conduct. If the mass is kept at a reasonably low level, let's say hypothetically, two exceptions per year - then that will likely add a bit of salt to the soup without oversalting it.
Ok. The thing is, it's not two exceptions per year. Just recently there are 2-3 introduction threads of non-Germanics already plus others posting in other threads. Finns, Hungarians, Slavs, French. Not exactly the ethnicities I expect to find if I sign up somewhere it says "forum for people of Germanic heritage".


When it degrades into actual bickering back and forth, then that has sort of exceeded the intention of this subforum, really. A topic asking for clarification does not ask for everyone's opinion on a certain measure - either they accept the measure, advise a better option via a suggestion, or they are free to break the ruling of a measure at their own peril.
Who here has been "bickering"? What is bickering to you?


I will gladly let her do that, because I have prompted it myself, and have thus committed as much of an error, but will myself rest my case as it stands, as it was never my intention in the first place to kick off a huge new debate. I have explained all that I have to explain, so if she wishes to argue with my most recent post, I will let her do that, but she will be talking as with a wall from here on.
Not my fault that you took it to heart. I was never concerned with being politically correct towards non-Germanic whites and never will be. Slavs, Southern Europeans and the rest are all aliens to me, or I'd have joined Stirpes. If that's a crime on a Germanic forum, then so be it. But I am not going to compromise my views because they offend you and your non-Germanic friends.

Nachtengel
Friday, October 3rd, 2008, 07:22 AM
All valid topics to some extent, but all cans of worms that have been opened before. To the question asked in this topic it is really not of much relevance. The original poster wanted a clarification on behalf of Staff as to who was allowed on board and who wasn't and to which lengths this extended. Her motives for this are unclear, but it does not matter - she wanted a clarification, not a possible drama kicked off again.
I can assure you that my intention was not to open a can of worms or kick a drama off. I just wanted an answer to a question that was unclear, because I saw some contradictory statements made here and I wanted to know what the stance is for sure. I just wanted an answer from the officials which has been given to me so as far as I am concerned this topic can be closed because I am satisfied with your answers. :thumbup

Sigurd
Friday, October 3rd, 2008, 07:49 AM
@Bärin

I said, I would rest my case, which I will at large - but I will have to point out certain advisory matters and some "getting things straight" where you have been selectively using facts.


Ok. The thing is, it's not two exceptions per year. Just recently there are 2-3 introduction threads of non-Germanics already plus others posting in other threads. Finns, Hungarians, Slavs, French. Not exactly the ethnicities I expect to find if I sign up somewhere it says "forum for people of Germanic heritage".

I reiterate - we have been banning them with an increased frequency. The Hungarian-Canadian, Huszar, was sent from these Halls earlier on after it was decided that the same ruling relating as to European non-Germanics should apply to non-European non-Germanics. Less than an hour ago, I sent to Nastrand a lad only of partial Germanic heritage (with predominantly non-Germanic heritage) that wanted to push a pan-Aryan agenda.

I would like to point out the "2-3 recent introduction threads, so we can investigate. The maximum for non-Germanic heritage I have seen on Page 1 (i.e. last 3 weeks) would be American of German and Bohemian ancestry ... all others tended to have fairly minor parts of non-Germanic admixture. The only blatantly non-Germanic introduction I see in the "Introductions & Greetings" forum that has been updated in the past few weeks would be that of Youenn - but bear in mind that this introduction is ancient and predates this incarnation of Skadi.

All other non-Germanic members who have been posting of recent were either explicitly allowed ... or have managed to by-pass the IP-ban by using a proxy server. In the case you see a member which you feel that should not be there: Remember not to make a fuss of it openly, your route of action is to either send a PM to a member of currently available Staff or to report a post via the "Report Post" function. This is for example how we were made aware of the Hungarian as quickly as possible.


Who here has been "bickering"? What is bickering to you?

That was a general address, and not a personal address to you. I was referring to the general tendency of these "Help & Suggestion" threads to get somewhat down the lines of dramas / soap operas. I did a general bid to the membership not to let it degrade into that - this was not personally aimed at you. There is no need for you to feel so offended by this.

What is "bickering" to me? The dictionary definition: To engage in a petty, bad-tempered quarrel; squabble. (Source (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/bickering))


Not my fault that you took it to heart. I was never concerned with being politically correct towards non-Germanic whites and never will be.

I have stated before that this is not about being "politically correct" or letting swarms of our "alien """"friends"""" " into Skadi, and will go into no further detail, because to be quite honest, I am sick and tired of trying to explain all in a calm, well-mannered tone just to have you steam back into me every time again in a tone that would send a berserk into hiding.



But I am not going to compromise my views because they offend you and your non-Germanic friends.

Your views do not offend me in the slightest (because TBH they generally don't affect me much), your presentation of them and your manner of argumentation however does offend me. Remember that good old German saying, Der Ton macht die Musik ("It's the tone that makes the music".).

Maybe tune your aggressivity down a little bit, learn to let an argument stand as it is, use a few less "thumb down" smilies, and maybe withhold an opinion where it is not 100% necessary - the amount of times I have swallowed down a reply to some thread and gone ahead to ignore the thread altogether because I knew my reply would come across as overly confrontational and aggressive without saying much of productiveness.

Nothing is wrong with your views at all. You are entitled to them, as much as everyone else is entitled to theirs. What I do notice however is that you tend to have a tone that is near impossible to stand in presenting them ... that actually reminds me quite of my own hot-headed temper that I sported on all types of fora maybe three or four years back. At the time I had the same "devil may care" tone that you have, but in hindsight I am shocked at how some of my tone sounded then - in debate is often better to say the same things diplomatically rather than confrontationally.

Talk to people on this forum the same way that you would talk to your friends or family when you discuss something. That is unless you act aggressive towards members of the public on the road, of course.

That is not something I say to ridicule you, bicker with you or express any type of personal like or dislike - that is something that I say in order to help you find your way around the forum a little better, for I know I am far from the only one who sometimes has difficulties with accepting your attitude in a calm manner.

Blood_Axis
Friday, October 3rd, 2008, 11:13 AM
A foreigner is a foreigner is a foreigner, nice or not and Blood Axis too falls into the category of non-Germanic, so foreign.


Yeah, yeah, yeah...didn't even bother to read your the whole of your post --just informing you, btw, that I am 25% germanic and that's equal to what many colonial members here of mixed celtic-roman-whatever-germanic ancestry are. Ban those too? ;)

Also I have been here since 2004, been a devoted member of the Staff for about 2 years and have also financially contributed to the sustaining of the server.

So all in all I have contibuted more than yourself to this forum, too. Why don't you find something else to bother about? :wave

Thusnelda
Friday, October 3rd, 2008, 03:41 PM
Todesengel has had her query answered, and the time has come to close it. :)