PDA

View Full Version : Dinarid Arab?



Marcus
Saturday, September 27th, 2008, 10:30 AM
From Oman, somewhere in the empty Quater

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/2158/omanze1.jpg

There is a clear resemblence with a typical Dinaroid
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z61/Andresh-photos/balkan-caucasian/12A.jpghttp://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z61/Andresh-photos/balkan-caucasian/12B.jpg

I accually note that many West Asians (especially Syrians, Lebanese, Iranians etc.) looks like Bosnians (and other Balkanians). Are those West Asians supposed to come originally from Balkan or is it vice versa?

Agrippa
Saturday, September 27th, 2008, 12:28 PM
From Oman, somewhere in the empty Quater

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/2158/omanze1.jpg

There is a clear resemblence with a typical Dinaroid
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z61/Andresh-photos/balkan-caucasian/12A.jpghttp://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z61/Andresh-photos/balkan-caucasian/12B.jpg

I accually note that many West Asians (especially Syrians, Lebanese, Iranians etc.) looks like Bosnians (and other Balkanians). Are those West Asians supposed to come originally from Balkan or is it vice versa?

This Arab ist no Dinarid in any way, he is a gracile dolichocephal, predominantely Arabid.

Dinarids are closer to the Iranid type by the way, not the Arabid, even though Iranid and Arabid are related to each other and being grouped together by some authors (like v. Eickstedt under the term Orientalid).

The typical Dinarised Iranoids are Armenoid though, whereas the Dinarids of Europe are closer to robust Mediterranoid and partly Nordoid variants, which became Dinarised and had additional Cromagnoid influences.

So to sum it up, Iranids are close to robust European Aurignacoid (leptodolichomorphic) types like Nordid and Atlantomediterranid in some way on the one hand, and Dinarids on the other, with Dinarids being most likely primarily Dinarised (by selective trends) populations which were originally more like Atlantomediterranid/Atlantomediterranid-Cromagnoid (Adriatid dark Dinarid subtype) or Nordoid/Nordoid-Cromagnoid (Norid light Dinarid subtype).

The Dinarid man shown above has a certain resemblance to Iranids indeed, mainly because being rather lower and somewhat longer skulled with a rounder occiput.

Marcus
Saturday, September 27th, 2008, 01:06 PM
Most authors regard Dinarids as being similar to Armenoids, but just darker. But I don´t think that they are that much similar. Apparently are both the Dinarids and Armenoids Brachycephalic types but other than that there is little similarity especially by going after the facial features. For instance Dinarids tend to have thiner and sharper noses, prominant brows and deep-set-in eyes just like the Iranids wheres Armenoids have somewhat broader noses and as older they get the features becommes more fleshy. So in reality the Dinarids and Iranids are more alikes.

This Iranian I believe is quite so Dinarid in phenotype aswell as Iranid.
http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/6628/bizikge7.jpg

Agrippa
Saturday, September 27th, 2008, 07:37 PM
Most authors regard Dinarids as being similar to Armenoids, but just darker. But I don´t think that they are that much similar. Apparently are both the Dinarids and Armenoids Brachycephalic types but other than that there is little similarity especially by going after the facial features. For instance Dinarids tend to have thiner and sharper noses, prominant brows and deep-set-in eyes just like the Iranids wheres Armenoids have somewhat broader noses and as older they get the features becommes more fleshy. So in reality the Dinarids and Iranids are more alikes.


Thats true. Additionally the whole Nordid, Atlantomediterranid, Dinarid, Iranid and Nordindid spectrum shows certain similarities, as they all belong to the progressive-leptomorphic and robust-tall group of the Europid race.

As for the Armenoids, one should recognise the high degree of variation inside of it and what the principle of Dinarisation is finally about.

Dinarisation is most likely the result of an adaptation to a high altitude, mountainous and highland areas, as well as to the life of a herder and warrior.

If looking at the Iranid habitat, its clear that there are more similarities than to the typical flatland, river and coastal Nordid and Mediterranid people. This also related to the high and very prominent nasal shape of either the Iranid and Taurid Europid forms to a certain degree.

The original Armenoids can be grouped into two forms, one being more gracile, being to a large degree descendence of gracile (Eastern) Mediterranoids which became Dinarised when the Anatolian climate changed, worsened in fact, and the way of life changed. This is the somewhat more gracile, but neither infantile nor pyknomorphic Anadolid subtype.

The other was more robust, most likely the result of the Dinarisation of a more robust form, I'd say Iranoids. These are more common in the Caucasus area and are also tall, lean and warlike herdsmen of the mountains. These are what I call "progressive Armenoids" and there is a fluent border to the Dinarid and Alpinoid spectrum in the Northern Caucasus with the Mtebid/Caucasid subtype.

The third Armenoid subtype being characterised by a wholly different form of adaptation, being largely the result of original Armenoids coming down from the mountains and taking the lower lands of the Near East, where they came into close contact with local Alpinoid farmer variants from which they got a certain influence. Furthermore they adapted to a more sedentary, peaceful and "civilised" way of life as farmers and urban people, merchants and adapted to the life in large agglomerations more than other racial types I might say.
They partly degenerated physically, having mostly extremely leptomorphic/Asthenic or pyknomorphic variants, with a lower number of sinewy Leptosomic individuals and the general mesomorphic component.

These are the typical Armenids often described and most different from the Dinarid type. They are no longer, like the other Taurid forms, even the Pamirid one to a large degree, warlike mountaineers with large herds, but farmers, townsfolk and merchants. People which came under the rule of many different people, f.e. Indoeuropean Nordoid-Mediterranoid and Iranid-Nordoid tribes, Semitic herdsmen and the like, so that they are today among Armenians, Kurds, Turks, Jews and Arabs, while they lost their original ethnic character, which was most likely related to the (C)Hurri people and similar now extinct Near Eastern groups.

So that type was originally not Semitic, but became "Semitised" among Jews and Arabs, as it became "Indoeuropeanised" among Armenians and Kurds.

In my opinion, their racial type can only be properly understood, if knowing the steps in between, namely from a robust-long headed, standard Europid form, to a shorter headed but still progressive-mature herder-warrior people of the highlands, to reduced-mixed and to sedentary life adapted variants.

Of course, the border between Anadolid, progressive Armenoid and Armenid is fluent and they all could and should be grouped together, but still there is a quite fundamental difference between those subtypes, as the latter are no classic Dinarised people (any more).

If looking at the progressive Armenoid forms, which dont have lowland-Alpinised and reduced tendencies of the (Southern) Armenid, they look closer to Iranids than the European Dinarid variants usually, with the latter being the result of the same process among European mountaineers, with or without little input from the Northern Caucasian groups.

maymon
Saturday, December 13th, 2008, 12:46 PM
Speaking of iranid and arabid ... how do you differ them from eachother? Do the iranids have a lower CI and show more robust facial features than arabids?

I´ve never found a clear description on the arabids.

Agrippa
Saturday, December 13th, 2008, 03:49 PM
Speaking of iranid and arabid ... how do you differ them from eachother? Do the iranids have a lower CI and show more robust facial features than arabids?

I´ve never found a clear description on the arabids.

Iranids are taller, more robust boned, have larger measurements and can be themselves divided in a fine (more gracile and Aurignacoid) and a coarse (very robust and more Cromagniform comparably) form type.
Iranids in general also have, at least on average, different facial features and dont share have the uber-typical Arabid traits as often like the exact form of the nose, the eyes large, hanging almond eyes, lips-mouth (Semitic smile), very deep fossa canina. On average they are also more hairy (eyebrows alone prove that usually) and lighter, have even a remarkable percentage of light eyes, which might relate them to the Nordoid spectrum, which is just natural if considering, that the Nordoid and Iranoid spectra had once a direct border in Central Asia. There is also a fluent border to the Mediterranid in the West, Nordoid in the North, Nordindid in the East and of course, Arabid in the South - so Iranids being in a way in between those other Aurignacoid racial types of the Europid race with specific characteristics of their own.

Of course there is no clear border, but simple put, if calling both types Orientalid, Iranids are the tall robust and Arabids the shorter and more gracile type/subtype.

I made a thread about the racial types of the Near East on Thiazi:
http://forum.thiazi.net/showthread.php?t=121253

There I posted examples too, here just some:

Iranid:
http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/7296/iranidkurdhu5.jpg (http://img409.imageshack.us/my.php?image=iranidkurdhu5.jpg)
http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/iranidkurdhu5.jpg/1/w399.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img409/iranidkurdhu5.jpg/1/)
Kurdish woman

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/1938/iranideantikheutepr8.jpg (http://img155.imageshack.us/my.php?image=iranideantikheutepr8.jpg)
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/iranideantikheutepr8.jpg/1/w723.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img155/iranideantikheutepr8.jpg/1/)
(ancient and modern Persian from E. v. Eickstedt, "Türken, Kurden und Iraner seit dem Altertum")

Arabid:
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/5250/ladenniecewafadufour1qd0.jpg (http://img258.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ladenniecewafadufour1qd0.jp g)
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/ladenniecewafadufour1qd0.jpg/1/w250.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img258/ladenniecewafadufour1qd0.jpg/1/)
(Wafa Dufour - relative of Osama Bin Laden)

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/3392/arabarabidwi2.jpg (http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=arabarabidwi2.jpg)
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/arabarabidwi2.jpg/1/w365.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img149/arabarabidwi2.jpg/1/)
(Unknown Arab)