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Grimm
Tuesday, September 16th, 2008, 06:56 PM
Can someone please give me a simple and brief (I know that is asking a lot when it comes to geneaology) of the so-called Corded People?

I've tried to read a lot of what the web has to offer but couldn't find anything that really made sense to me about the Corded. I read quite a bit of Carlton Coon's book online, but I had trouble putting the Corded People into persepctive when it came to their relation to Nordics and Kelts. Were they their common ancestors? I'm considered intelligent, but I must admit that sometimes this all leaves my head spinning. Thanks.

SuuT
Tuesday, September 16th, 2008, 09:26 PM
Corded: ca. 3200 BC/2900 BC to ca. 2300 BC/1800 BC


Synopsis of the Physical Anthropology of Corded Ware Culture:


http://www.scribd.com/doc/396654/Synopsis-of-the-Physical-Anthropology-of-Corded-Ware-Culture (http://www.scribd.com/doc/396654/Synopsis-of-the-Physical-Anthropology-of-Corded-Ware-Culture)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Corded_Ware_culture.png

Bell Beaker:

The Bell-Beaker culture (sometimes shortened to Beaker culture, Beaker people, or Beaker folk; German: Glockenbecherkultur), ca. 2800 - 1900 BC, is the term for a widely scattered cultural phenomenon of prehistoric Western Europe starting in the late Neolithic running into the early Bronze age.

Contents:

1. Pottery (http://wapedia.mobi/en/Beaker_culture#1.)
2. Origin (http://wapedia.mobi/en/Beaker_culture#2.)
3. Interpretation (http://wapedia.mobi/en/Beaker_culture#3.)
4. Extent and impact (http://wapedia.mobi/en/Beaker_culture#4.)
5. See also (http://wapedia.mobi/en/Beaker_culture?t=5.#5.)
6. Notes (http://wapedia.mobi/en/Beaker_culture?t=5.#6.)
7. Bibliography (http://wapedia.mobi/en/Beaker_culture?t=5.#7.)
8. links (http://wapedia.mobi/en/Beaker_culture?t=5.#8.)


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Beaker_culture.png

Grimm
Tuesday, September 16th, 2008, 11:49 PM
Suut, thanks for the info, but it's too much. I have neither the patience nor intelligence to read that entire thing and make sense of it. Can someone just tell me who the Corded People became? I read some of what was written and saw some mention of various peoples, but I honestly couldn't follow it. I'd really just like to know what became of the Corded.

SuuT
Wednesday, September 17th, 2008, 01:02 AM
Suut, thanks for the info, but it's too much. I have neither the patience nor intelligence to read that entire thing and make sense of it. Can someone just tell me who the Corded People became? I read some of what was written and saw some mention of various peoples, but I honestly couldn't follow it. I'd really just like to know what became of the Corded.

Dude. C'mon. Don't be lazy. :D

Here's the canned answer:

Corded cultural and racial elements were subsumed by subsequent migrations, assimilated into the resultant chrysalis, and live to this day in the Europid/European cultural and racial nexus.

Allenson
Wednesday, September 17th, 2008, 03:06 PM
Dude. C'mon. Don't be lazy. :D

Here's the canned answer:

Corded cultural and racial elements were subsumed by subsequent migrations, assimilated into the resultant chrysalis, and live to this day in the Europid/European cultural and racial nexus.

LOL. :thumbup

Yeah, and their descendents are more likely found across the Great European Plain than they are in the mountainous central belt or in the sunny south. No surprise here as they were a largely mobile bunch--pastorialists and mounted on horseback.

It's quite possible that they are responsible for the spread of Indo-European....

Carl
Wednesday, September 17th, 2008, 04:04 PM
Looking at the location ( - see also Wikipedia ?) , "the nations" covered are fairly clear - except that there were no nations then! The Germanic bronze age in the north is clearly one of the successor cultures to follow - and surely one of much interest to the members of Skadi! It 'prospered' rather quietly in the northern areas whilst the Celtic culture (towards) of the Alpine south flourished in the first Millennium BCE.... After this, into Roman times, some of the northern tribes began to move south and settle what we now call Austro-Germany ( and beyond) and - so on , into the wider world! Right ?

teutonicscult
Wednesday, November 19th, 2008, 12:20 AM
Ok so this much I understand:
There was an initial culture called corded, which I presume were racially founded by the corded-nordic people. (am I right)

then there was a predominant 'Bell beaker culture'. Were they of the same racial group as the initial corded race? or something different like Keltic-nordic?

And one more question that puzzles me most is about the Hallstatt culture and its relation to the hallstatt-nordic people. Were the Hallstatt-nordic people the ones involved in the Hallstatt culture?
The Hallstatt culture is originated in Hallstatt in Austria right? Isn't this central Europe? wasn't this location also were the celts were.( Or were hallstatt-nordic people also intertwined with celtic culture in someway?)

Hauke Haien
Friday, November 13th, 2009, 11:01 AM
These are two clips that give short introductions to three cultures, starting with Bell-Beaker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beaker_culture), which is presented as intrusive and interconnected with Corded Ware (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corded_Ware_culture) or even preceding it (how so?). The second clip then deals with the Nordic Bronze Age (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Bronze_Age) as a successor to Corded Ware. The lack of clarity is lamentable, especially in light of concurrent oversimplifications. Nevertheless, it is a rare attempt at visualising early Indo-European cultures in pre-Germanic territory.

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Hauke Haien
Friday, November 13th, 2009, 04:18 PM
then there was a predominant 'Bell beaker culture'. Were they of the same racial group as the initial corded race?



Historical craniometric studies found that the Beaker people appeared to be of a different physical type than those earlier populations in the same geographic areas. They were described as tall, heavy boned and brachycephalic. The early studies on the Beakers which were based on the analysis of their skeletal remains, were craniometric. This apparent evidence of migration was in line with archaeological discoveries linking Beaker culture to new farming techniques, mortuary practices, copper-working skills, and other cultural innovations. However such evidence from skeletal remains was brushed aside as a new movement developed in archaeology from the 1960s which stressed cultural continuity. Anti-migrationist authors either paid little attention to skeletal evidence or argued that differences could be explained by environmental and cultural influences. Margaret Cox and Simon Mays sum up the position: "Although it can hardly be said that craniometric data provide an unequivocal answer to the problem of the Beaker folk, the balance of the evidence would at present seem to favour a migration hypothesis."
Margaret Cox and Simon Mays, Human Osteology in Archaeology and Forensic Science (2000), pp. 281-83.


A recent Strontium isotope analysis of 86 people from Bell Beaker graves in Bavaria suggests that between 18-25% of all graves were occupied by people who came from a considerable distance outside the area. This was true of children as well as adults, indicative of some significant migration wave. Given the similarities with readings from people living on loess soils, the general direction of the local movement according to Price et al., is from the northeast to the southwest.
Price, T. Douglas; Grupe, Gisela and Schröter, Peter "Migration in the Bell Beaker period of Central Europe (http://antiquity.ac.uk/Ant/072/0405/Ant0720405.pdf)"

oversunrising
Friday, February 19th, 2010, 07:58 AM
I think to get the answer that you are looking for, you should research the information yourself. Its certainly out there. I looked that stuff up ages ago, and it took some time, but even simply noting the relative ages of the certain cultures and following the links to the preceding and anticeding cultures will give you great insight.

To answer one of your questions, there never was a nordic hallstaat. The Hallstaatt culture is probably mostly interpreted as a certain culture of eurpeans in that region. Some of the traits of SOME of the culture are considered PRECURSORS of the celtic culture, though hallstatt culture is not what we would think of as celtic, and probably not that much different from other prevailing european ideas and customs.

Hallstatt culture sprung from a chain of cultures that, if i remember correctly, sprung from a certain culture that could be related to italo-celtic language, (so celtic folk were possibly at one stage more closely related to italic folk), and this culture in turn sprung from a chain of cultures from the beaker culture.

If I remember correctly, and feel free to correct me, the bell beaker culture overlapped, to some extent, in time and space the corded ware culture. I think that the corded ware culture was much larger and older. I think that the beaker culture is still not understood well, and observations lead only to speculations about the culture. It seems that it originated in the Iberian peninsula, and spread as this cultural package of amazing new ideas and ways of doing things throughout europe.

As I remember it, the new bell beaker culture did not diffuse throughout all of europe, and so some cultures remained identified with the corded ware cultural package. What we think of as nordic culture seems to have arisen from this isolated corded ware culture, through a chain of several other cultures.

I think that what defined them as a separate and remote entity from the rest of europe was a long and isolated (geographically) period of early separation, which means that they developed independantly of other influences such as the beaker "technologies" that would have been the communal heritage of many other european peoples. I guess this is why the germanic branch of IE is so different from the other languages of the region and why metal technologies came much later, for example, though the question of languages probably has to do also with the assimilation of native european populations that these people encountered where they came to be (pre nordic europeans in scandinavia, ancient tuscans in the italian peninsular, basques and picts in celtic speaking areas, for a guessed example).