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View Full Version : The Big Debate: Teen Pregnancy -- Who's to Blame?



Schmetterling
Friday, September 12th, 2008, 10:40 AM
'When people have sex and become pregnant, the taxpayer should not get screwed.'

The story: Teen pregnancy is a direct result of government and school policies that limit access to birth control and withhold education about sexual health, writes the president of Planned Parenthood Advocates of Arizona.

Your take: Blame parents for teen pregnancy, blame the teens - but don't blame government, says the Citizen online community.

Most readers fault Mom and Dad. "Teen pregnancy is the result of bad parenting," Randy L. flatly states. Craig D., who made the comment atop this column, concurs, as does The M., who says it's parents' responsibility to teach "morals, values and how to make the right choices."

A few readers believe that the government does have an interest in reducing the teen pregnancy rate, because "like it or not, there is . . . a societal cost . . . that we all end up paying," Chris M. says. And the best way to achieve that goal is "knowledge, as opposed to denying knowledge," David W.G. argues.

But Planned Parenthood should not be dispensing that information, according to Michael B. and Velcro V.: Both equate the organization with Nazi Dr. Josef Mengele.

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/opinion/96451.php

So, who is to blame for teen pregnancy?

Patrioten
Friday, September 12th, 2008, 11:01 AM
The problem with teen pregnancies, as long as we're not talking about 16 year olds and below, is not so much the pregnancy (how could having a child and starting a family ever be a problem under normal circumstances?) but the fact that there is nowadays no solid family structures to rely on for particularly the mother and the baby. Young men today rarely have even the smallest notion of what fatherhood means, what duties that come with it or that there even is such a thing as duties. It would be interesting to see figures of how many teen-pregnancies that end up with the mother caring for their child alone, my guess is that the numbers are quite high. That's a problem. Teen pregnancies are a minor issue when you consider the fact that our societies are dying from low birthrates. People postpone starting a family until they are no longer able to do so, and there seems to be very little middle ground. People who have children in their early 20 are considered a novelty almost.

signofthehammer
Friday, September 12th, 2008, 11:22 AM
I'd say the teens are to blame themselves. One would have to be beyond stupid to no know what the result of sex is. Sexual activity requires personal responsibility. Patrioten, I understand your point that poor family structures are equally as detrimental if not more, but I still don't think 17 and 18 year olds having children is a good idea. In this day and age teen pregnancy is a hallmark of poverty and lack of education. The only teen mothers I ever see in the UK are council-house-inhabiting, track-suit-wearing, foul-mouthed neds with stroller in one hand and cigarette in the other. And we don't need more of these people, regardless of their race. I mean face it, it's extremely rare for a teen with good parents and from a good background to find herself pregnant, or at the very least to keep the child (personal views on abortion aside, just stating a fact).

Psychonaut
Friday, September 12th, 2008, 12:00 PM
I think that to try and pin down the blame for teen pregnancy on one cause is an exercise in futility. One big factor, in my opinion, is the fact that frequent casual sex is something that is now common and accepted in nearly all sectors of Western society. Pair this with a gradual breakdown of traditional familial and religious values and you get bunches of kids who are engaging in what they see as consequence free sex. Naturally, kids aren't always going to use birth control (or if they're latinos they just won't, period), so what we get is are strikingly high numbers of both unwed teen mothers and teen abortions, both of which are contrary to the goals of Germanic preservation. As to a solution, I think that this is definitely one of those problems that can only be solved by starting in your own home, by raising your children with the kinds of traditional values that lead away from promiscuity.

signofthehammer
Friday, September 12th, 2008, 12:11 PM
As to a solution, I think that this is definitely one of those problems that can only be solved by starting in your own home, by raising your children with the kinds of traditional values that lead away from promiscuity.

If only it were that easy. I seem to remember reading a statistic in 2002 somewhere that most teenage girls who became pregnant in the states did so after their 'first time'.

Psychonaut
Friday, September 12th, 2008, 12:16 PM
If only it were that easy. I seem to remember reading a statistic in 2002 somewhere that most teenage girls who became pregnant in the states did so after their 'first time'.


However, in the US you have to remember that the majority of teenage pregnancies come from Negroes and Hispanics, who have the highest rates of unwed births. ;)

signofthehammer
Friday, September 12th, 2008, 01:13 PM
I realise that, just think it might be interesting to see if it's the same case in Europe. I imagine it could be - teen pregnancy as a mentioned above seems inherently linked to socio-economic status - just so happens the majority of the inner city poor in America are ethnic minorities.

Mrs. Lyfing
Friday, September 12th, 2008, 02:20 PM
First off the tax payer is always gonna pay, no matter what.

I don't think blaming people is really going to solve any problems. Educating them, maybe? Teen pregnancy is most definitely to popular in the US. I have seen pregnant teens from white to black to rich to poor. It isn't always the parents fault. Some teenagers are going to do what they will, no matter what mommy told them their whole life. There are many factors that can fall into place that cause teen pregnancies. Hormones, the unknown ( and the desire to know ) foolishness, thinking he/she love you, pressure, lack of knowledge, even bad parenting. Whatever it may be, I think we also need to acknowledge that the teenage girls do not get pregnant by themselves. ;)

Let them come spend a week with me and my 4 year old and 7 year old before hand, and they will most definitely wear protection. Having a baby is far beyond baby bottles and cute clothes!

QuietWind
Friday, September 12th, 2008, 03:04 PM
In addition to the problems already mentioned above, another thing to throw into the mix is that teens often believe that they are invincible. They engage in reckless behaviors without regard for the consequences. It goes beyond unprotected sex. It includes driving recklessly, driving while intoxicated, experimenting with drugs, engaging in pranks which can be deadly, etc. Educating teens about protecting themselves during sex is not going to work. The schools have been educating teens for years and years, yet we still have high rates of teens pregnancies and STD's. Teens know the consequences, they just think that they are above them. "It won't happen to me."

Patrioten
Friday, September 12th, 2008, 03:08 PM
In addition to the problems already mentioned above, another thing to throw into the mix is that teens often believe that they are invincible. They engage in reckless behaviors without regard for the consequences. It goes beyond unprotected sex. It includes driving recklessly, driving while intoxicated, experimenting with drugs, engaging in pranks which can be deadly, etc. Educating teens about protecting themselves during sex is not going to work. The schools have been educating teens for years and years, yet we still have high rates of teens pregnancies and STD's. Teens know the consequences, they just think that they are above them. "It won't happen to me."Also, their parents have none of the same authority that their grandparents had, and even if their parents would be more of the moralistic preacher type, the rest of society, the media, teachers and friends, would be all too happy to undercut their preachings with messages that bear much more authority these days. "It's your choice", "it is your life" and a general anything goes attitude.

Æmeric
Friday, September 12th, 2008, 03:24 PM
However, in the US you have to remember that the majority of teenage pregnancies come from Negroes and Hispanics, who have the highest rates of unwed births. ;)


And the government compensates them for doing so with food stamps & ADC (Aid to Dependent Children) payments. And they qualify for public housing or housing vouchers. Plus they get healthcare subsidized by the taxpayer, something many taxpaying middleclass families don't get.

The changing social attitudes of the last 50-years are to blame, many of them forced by government policies. Unplanned pregnancy, no problem we have abortion on demand. Don't want a STD just wear a condom. It's sex without negative consequences (allegedly). The people pushing the sexual liberation agenda for teens claim that teens are going to have sex anyway but.... way back before all the sex propaganda geered towards teens, the illegitimacy rate & STD rate were significantly lower, especially for White teens. Someone who slept around with several sexual partners use to be a tramp, now they are roll models. Not having sex has been sigmatized as "unnatural".

Another problem concerning teens & sex: They are starting puberty at an earlier age. Enviromental exposure to certain chemicals or maybe hormome injections given to livestock? Whatever, having children with the bodies of young adults is not good situation.

Nachtengel
Friday, September 19th, 2008, 02:59 PM
But Planned Parenthood should not be dispensing that information, according to Michael B. and Velcro V.: Both equate the organization with Nazi Dr. Josef Mengele.
Why is this, because it supports abortion? Abortion is nothing bad, it can be used as quality control. Aren't teen pregnancies, especially early pregnancies risky and likely to give birth to a child with bad health/disability? Of course abortion shouldn't be the first solution, protection should, or abstinence if the teen is just 13-14, but if it fails, abortion should be an option. But this is stupid anyway, using all these nazi jibes, the demonisation or everything. :|

Kluntje
Friday, September 19th, 2008, 05:07 PM
When a young woman of 16 years is falling in love with a young man, there's nothing wrong about a pregnency, if they are married and have a firm financial environment.

The problem is the missing moral education at school, at home and the whole society. The Teens lern all about sexual topics, but nothing about the moral and personal consequences of sexuality. The Zeitgeist of hedonism proclaims a promiscuous lifestyle only looking for fast amusement. It's parents duty to teach their teenage children a responsible handling with sexuality including love and a binding relationship knowing about the natural implications of procreating a new life. Predominantly it's parents fault when teens get pregnent without the necessary conditions.

By the way: Killing never solves problems, it creates new ones. Therefore abortion can never be an equitable option.

Psychonaut
Saturday, September 20th, 2008, 03:05 AM
Killing never solves problems, it creates new ones. Therefore abortion can never be an equitable option.

Really? That's a pretty bold statement. So, if your daughter were to be raped by an African fellow, abortion wouldn't be an option?

Kluntje
Saturday, September 20th, 2008, 09:05 PM
Really? That's a pretty bold statement. So, if your daughter were to be raped by an African fellow, abortion wouldn't be an option?

Does an abortion unmake the rape?

The baby isn't blamable for the rape, so why should it die?

If you want vengeance, execute the raptist, but not the unblamable baby.

Psychonaut
Saturday, September 20th, 2008, 11:53 PM
Does an abortion unmake the rape?

The baby isn't blamable for the rape, so why should it die?

If you want vengeance, execute the raptist, but not the unblamable baby.

The baby is certainly not to blame for the rape, but is a consequence of it. You didn't answer my question either. If your daughter or wife were raped and impregnated by an African, would abortion not be an option? Would you have them give birth to a forcibly inserted halfbreed?

Nachtengel
Sunday, September 21st, 2008, 01:37 AM
Does an abortion unmake the rape?

The baby isn't blamable for the rape, so why should it die?

If you want vengeance, execute the raptist, but not the unblamable baby.
The woman isn't blamable for the rape either, so why should she give birth to the son/daughter of a scum (rapist) against her will and carry that burden all her lifel? If she wants an abortion, she should be able to get it.

It wouldn't even matter to me if the baby is white, I would rather die than have the child or a rapist against my will.

Patrioten
Sunday, September 21st, 2008, 01:40 AM
Not allowing abortion in cases of rape is wrong in more ways than it is right in my opinion. The mother will be forced to give birth to the product of this vile act, and we expect her to care for the child? One can only imagine the sickly relationship and emotions that will exist between mother and child. You will also condemn the child to be a product of rape. Every child has a right to a father, its own father. The child will not see its father, nor should it. The best option in this situation is abortion. I don't even want to think about it so I'll put it this way, imagine as psychonaut said, your own sister, raped, defiled for life, disregardless of the race of the rapist, having to give birth to his off-spring. It's just plain wrong. It's hard to even put it into words.

Kluntje
Sunday, September 21st, 2008, 03:00 AM
The baby is certainly not to blame for the rape, but is a consequence of it. You didn't answer my question either. If your daughter or wife were raped and impregnated by an African, would abortion not be an option? Would you have them give birth to a forcibly inserted halfbreed?

No, abortion would not be an option. I would give the birth to every human life, no matter how it was sired.


The woman isn't blamable for the rape either, so why should she give birth to the son/daughter of a scum (rapist) against her will and carry that burden all her lifel? If she wants an abortion, she should be able to get it.

Another question is, if she really feels better after killing her baby. I Don't think so. I've heard of some women who get pregnant by rape and because of her traumatic experience they wanted to abort. Some of them did it and had been afflicted with feelings of guilt because of killing their unblamable babys. They regreted their fatuity and hated themselves, because the raptist has made them to murderers of their own flesh and blood. In those cases, an abortion is not a rational decision, the women who abort their babys after rape do this in a very traumatized situation. Later, when they see clearly, they feel like the raptist did intervene their life a second time.

Other women deliver their babys and after a while with psychologically help to cope the destiny, they are so happy that they didn't kill the unblameble, new life as first reaction because they had been traumatized.

Also there are many other options like adoption or the "baby drop boxes" at hospitals, if the mother really can't care for her baby.

Patrioten
Sunday, September 21st, 2008, 03:34 AM
Other women deliver their babys and after a while with psychologically help to cope the destiny, they are so happy that they didn't kill the unblameble, new life as first reaction because they had been traumatized.

Also there are many other options like adoption or the "baby drop boxes" at hospitals, if the mother really can't care for her baby.You also need to consider the fact that this child will be her and her parents off-spring, their legacy, and they are supposed to accept that some man can rape their daughter and force her to give birth to the child? They have been defiled enough by their daughter's rape, they don't need the indignity of having off-spring that are the product of this vile act. Abortion in these cases are indeed mercy killings. Same thing with aborting incestual fetuses. They are wrongs that need to be corrected and made undone to the extent that this is possible.

Kluntje
Sunday, September 21st, 2008, 05:05 AM
You also need to consider the fact that this child will be her and her parents off-spring, their legacy, and they are supposed to accept that some man can rape their daughter and force her to give birth to the child? They have been defiled enough by their daughter's rape, they don't need the indignity of having off-spring that are the product of this vile act. Abortion in these cases are indeed mercy killings. Same thing with aborting incestual fetuses. They are wrongs that need to be corrected and made undone to the extent that this is possible.

I don't think that unblamable human life can be wrong.

The central question is, which would be the best solution in those situations for all involved persons.

On the one site is the baby which is living and has the human right of life. The human right of existance is the most fundamental right of all rights we have. Therefore the baby's life has highest priority, it's not negotiable.

On the other site is the woman. She is traumatized of the rape, a extremly cruel crime. Which solution would be the best for her? Would she long-dated feel better, if she kills the baby or if she donates the baby it's life? I know the situation is very hard to every woman, but I think the best solution for the woman would be psychologial help to handle with her destiny and to become a positive attitutde to her little baby. I think with loving and adequate, professional help of psychologists you will help the woman mostly and she can handle the pregnancy at least for nine months. If she would be unable to care for her baby after it's birth, there are many different options.

I don't trivialize the rape, I just want the best solution for all involved persons.

The best solution for the baby is life.

The best long-dated solution for the mother is not killing her baby, but learning to love her baby in spite of the rape by professional, psychologial help and counselinge.

The best solution for the raptist would be death by hanging to reconstitute justice.

That's my opinion, but I think this is not the main topic of this thread, is it? ;)

Psychonaut
Sunday, September 21st, 2008, 05:29 AM
I don't think that unblamable human life can be wrong.

The central question is, which would be the best solution in those situations for all involved persons.



I don't think your solution to this question is right at all. As a husband, I would do everything within my power to ensure that a female member of my family aborted the rapists child. I agree with Patrioten that a merciful death is best for all parties involved. I can't imagine why any woman would willingly give birth to the child of a rapist. It is even more difficult still for me to imagine a husband willing to raise the child of a rapist as his own. Even more difficult still is it for me to imagine that the child's life will be anything other than dysfunctional to the highest degree.

Æmeric
Sunday, September 21st, 2008, 04:12 PM
I wonder how many persons who are opposed to abortion even in cases of rape would still feel that way if she was the one pregnant by a rapist or if it was his wife or daughter who was pregnant because of rape.

I do think the rape/incest excuse is overused as a reason for the legalization of abortion on demand, most abortions simply being elective, rape not being the cause of pregnancy in 99%+ of abortions. Rape should be included under therapeutic (medical) reasons for abortion.

Psychonaut
Sunday, September 21st, 2008, 11:28 PM
I do think the rape/incest excuse is overused as a reason for the legalization of abortion on demand, most abortions simply being elective, rape not being the cause of pregnancy in 99%+ of abortions. Rape should be included under therapeutic (medical) reasons for abortion.

Agreed. The only cases for which I think abortions should be generally available are rape, incest, when serious deformities in the fetus are present, or when the mother's life is seriously threatened.

Siebenbürgerin
Monday, February 9th, 2009, 04:17 AM
Hmm, I put a little blame on the government for not doing anything against the exaggerated sexindustry and sexualisation of teenager's programmes. Because today teenagers think being a virgin is lame and embarrassing, so they've to have sex. Being uneducated about protection, some girls wake up with a unwanted pregnancy. The government should promote a little more conservatism and traditionalism about sexuality.

Ormus
Monday, February 9th, 2009, 11:55 PM
I don't think your solution to this question is right at all. As a husband, I would do everything within my power to ensure that a female member of my family aborted the rapists child. I agree with Patrioten that a merciful death is best for all parties involved. I can't imagine why any woman would willingly give birth to the child of a rapist. It is even more difficult still for me to imagine a husband willing to raise the child of a rapist as his own. Even more difficult still is it for me to imagine that the child's life will be anything other than dysfunctional to the highest degree.

The parents hardly have to raise the child adoption is still an option that many people seem to overlook and think adoption is only for Chinese and African babies, why not let the child have a chance at life or should descendants be held responsible for the acts of their ancestors?

forkbeard
Tuesday, February 10th, 2009, 12:43 AM
I want my teenage daughters to get pregnant. I can't wait to be a grand father. Of course its just finding a decent man which is the problem. Pregnancy isn't a disease. Its just a normal bodily function. There are good girls round here having four kids before the age of twenty which is saving our folk. So what if the state has to pay. If its giving away free money its dumb not to take it.

Kriemhild
Tuesday, February 10th, 2009, 12:50 AM
To be quite honest I find teen pregnancy, at least in the modern context (unwed, careless, irresponsible, etc.), disgusting. I've always been a firm believer in abstinence until marriage, and the way I see it, it's by and large the fault of the teenager. Obviously the parents and perhaps mainstream culture are factors, but bad judgment really comes down to the girl in question (unless, of course, she was raped or held against her will).

Zauberspruch
Tuesday, February 10th, 2009, 02:57 AM
Tax the lil' beggars ... tax them til it hurts ... take away their privileges until they pay ... don't encourage more irresponsibility with irresponsible welfare!!!


.

Blue Eyed Devil
Thursday, February 12th, 2009, 05:28 AM
There is little doubt in my mind as to what has brought on the high numbers of teen pregnancy, at least to the once civilized portions of our society.


Girls and boys are exposed to a barrage of sexual content on television from the cradle right through to adulthood. Sex is considered a normal part of dating and the idea of tying sex to, and only to, marriage is completely foreign to them. They are pumped up to have sex, but not expected to wait for marriage.

Girls are taught that they are supposed to have a career and to put marriage off until later, rather than to rely upon some "evil" man to support them. Boys are taught that women are supposed to supply a paycheck, and therefore they expect that. Everyone has bought into this insanity, and marriage is therefore postponed until later and later, while sex is bing promoted to the kids earlier and earlier.

Girls are learning "fashion" from the media, which has them dressing for sex as much as any street walker might. They are exposed to music that calls them female dogs, and the entire media-created mindset they have is one of promiscuity.


Clearly, when adolescent hormones are running at maximum, all the entertainment they are exposed to is promoting sex, and no one is promoting marriage to them, what happens is they have sex, and produce unwanted pregnancies in unwed mothers.

The problem I think is not with teen pregnancies so much as with the lack of marriages at a young enough age to make abstinence a viable option. Girls once got married at 13 or 14* and, teen pregnancies were not considered a problem then. There were also chaperons, and limits placed on dating in the past that kept this from happening most of the time. Today we do all the wrong things, place the kids in jeopardy and then have the gall to act surprised when girls get pregnant.

The issues listed above have to be addressed if we want to curb this problem. Otherwise we are wasting our time worrying about it, because we will talk, and spend money, and do all sorts of useless things, while the problem gets worse and worse.

* Note that today we are appalled (and I think rightly so) by a 13-year-old wife, but are only mildly surprised, if surprised at all (which I think is an outrage), by a 13-year old who is pregnant while unmarried. Why is marriage an outrage but promiscuity is merely a problem? The media has created this anti-marriage and anti-family mindset, while promoting promiscuity. And we have turned the entire civilization over to the media. We have met the enemy and it is us.

exit
Wednesday, February 18th, 2009, 03:33 PM
I think it's odd that you can't question the holocaust or Islam or the eradication of whites through immigration and miscegenation, though it is perfectly legal to tell young children to have sex and not to obey their parents. This form of degenerate art is everywhere in music, movies, tv, literature, etc. It is no wonder that teen pregnancy and abortion is on the rise.

forkbeard
Thursday, February 19th, 2009, 06:08 AM
Marriageable age in England is sixteen which makes it perfectly reasonable for teenagers to become mothers. I would suggest waiting though until the age of twenty, but definitely have a baby before twenty-one as the hip cartiledge of women ossifies after this age making future child birth more difficult.

TheGreatest
Thursday, February 19th, 2009, 06:14 AM
Anything earlier than 16 is wrong. At the age of 13/14, I was too concerned about my video games :P

Bärin
Thursday, March 12th, 2009, 02:56 PM
Teen pregnancy didn't use to be that abnormal. Girls married young. The problem today isn't if a teen gets pregnant at 16 or 18. It's if she has no support. If her boyfriend runs away like a cowardly scum. There is less responsibility, more mocking around. I got pregnant at 18 and I have the support of my husband and our families.

Sigurd
Thursday, March 12th, 2009, 03:11 PM
Teen pregnancy didn't use to be that abnormal. Girls married young. The problem today isn't if a teen gets pregnant at 16 or 18. It's if she has no support. If her boyfriend runs away like a cowardly scum. There is less responsibility, more mocking around. I got pregnant at 18 and I have the support of my husband and our families.

Well to me you're not a "teenage pregnancy" case for exactly the reasons you have stated. You have a supportive husband, always wanted children anyhow and when learning of it, chose to see your child as a living thing of your own flesh and blood rather than a "toy" some of these Jeremy Kyle/Jerry Springer/Oliver Geißen guests do. I recall your first route was to ask for advice on all fronts which is of course much better than some other "teenage mums" do. :)

The main problem of the vast majority of young mothers in their teenage years is not their age, but:

- They do not really want a child. They just hadn't learnt enough of the dictionary to hit letter C, which features the word "contraception" and "condom".

- The father absolutely couldn't care less about manning up and taking his responsibility and takes a dash as soon as he learns he's going to be a daddy.

- Some of these young mothers simply lack the mental maturity to know the implications of a pregnancy.

If a person is of sound mind, has the support to bring up a child, etc. then there is no reason to wait till you're wrinkled and old to have your kids. If the framework is there, then it's of course nothing contemptible. :thumbup

Blood_Axis
Thursday, March 12th, 2009, 03:17 PM
^ Yes, I also see young motherhood and teenage pregnancy as two different things.