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Papa Koos
Friday, September 5th, 2008, 09:33 PM
Since this section only has a place for either "Catholic" or "Protestant", I'll start an Orthodox thread. We are, after all, the second largest and most ancient group in Christendom.

Siebenbürgerin
Monday, September 8th, 2008, 09:04 PM
Hmm, but how many Germanics who adhere to Orthodoxy are there? The predominantly Orthodox people I know about are the Greeks, the Serbians, the Russians, the Romanians and so on. Could you give some examples of Germanic Orthodox groups and links, if there are any? Is the Germanic Orthodoxy a little different from Slavic? I am curious about it because I live in a predominantly Christian Orthodox country.

Papa Koos
Monday, September 8th, 2008, 09:05 PM
Actually four stations.

Two at Ancient Faith Radio
http://ancientfaith.com/

and two at The Orthodox Christian Network
http://www.myocn.net/index.php/The-Rudder.html

Much excellent programming!

Papa Koos
Monday, September 8th, 2008, 09:33 PM
Hmm, but how many Germanics who adhere to Orthodoxy are there? The predominantly Orthodox people I know about are the Greeks, the Serbians, the Russians, the Romanians and so on. Could you give some examples of Germanic Orthodox groups and links, if there are any? Is the Germanic Orthodoxy a little different from Slavic? I am curious about it because I live in a predominantly Christian Orthodox country.

Yours is a good and reasonable question, Siebenbürgerin. Of course, the majority of Germanics have historically been Roman Catholic or Protestant (Lutheran). I think an argument can be made that as Christianity spread across Europe the Faith was truly more Orthodox than it was Roman (as evidenced by the rituals and traditions of the early Celtic church), but no doubt Rome quite thoroughly coloured the picture as the European mainland was "evangelised".

In the present day, Orthodoxy is rapidly filling a (God shaped) void in America and, I understand, in the major European countries, so I think it highly likely that the Orthodox branch of Christendom is going to have an increasing presence in Germany. For this reason I started this thread.

Siebenbürgerin
Monday, September 8th, 2008, 09:36 PM
I have noticed a few ethnic Germans here who occasionally go to the Orthodox church out of curiosity or interest. In school I studied a bit about Orthodox Christianity. It seems there is a conflict between the Orthodox and the Catholics like there is between the Catholics and the Protestants. For example, the Filioque clause:

Filioque, a Latin phrase meaning "and the Son". In Western Christianity, it was added to the Nicene Creed after the words "We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father". This insertion emphasizes that Jesus, the Son, is of equal divinity with God, the Father.

The doctrine expressed by this phrase, as inserted into the Creed, is accepted as orthodox by the Catholic Church, by Anglicanism and by Protestant churches in general. Christians of these groups generally include it when reciting the Nicene Creed. Nonetheless, these groups recognize that filioque is not part of the original text established at the First Council of Constantinople in 381 and they do not demand that others too should use it when saying the Creed. Indeed, the Roman Catholic Church does not add the phrase corresponding to Filioque (καὶ τοῦ Υἱοῦ) to the Greek text of the Creed, even in the liturgy for Latin Rite Catholics. Pope John Paul II recited the Nicene Creed several times with patriarchs of the Eastern Orthodox Church in Greek according to the original text.

The Eastern Orthodox Church has reservations about the orthodoxy of the phrase and, moreover, objects to making any additions whatsoever to the Creed as enunciated at the First Council of Constantinople.

The filioque became a point of contention between the Eastern and Western Churches in 864, when Patriarch Photios I of Constantinople declared it heretical. The controversy over the phrase contributed to the East-West Schism of 1054 and, despite agreements among participants at the Second Council of Lyon (1274) and the Council of Florence (1439), reunion has not been achieved.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filioque_clause (http://forums.skadi.net/redirector.php?url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikip edia.org%2Fwiki%2FFilioque_clause)

It would seem to me that Orthodox Christianity as an alternative is preferable to Islam or other faiths which have no history in Europe and have anti-Germanic facets. It's surely not indigenous Germanic, but neither is the whole of Christianity. However, it could become localised and regionalised maybe? Like there is a Greek Church, Russian Church, Serbian Church, and so forth, maybe in time we will see a German Orthodox Church.

Imperator X
Monday, September 8th, 2008, 10:16 PM
Celtic Orthodoxy is Ireland's (and all of Britain's really) indigenous Christianity. The number of Celtic Orthodox Irish and native Gaelic speakers a few years ago was basically equal. The Insular Orthodox tradition differed from the Carolingian Roman tradition. It was very mystical (in its own right) and was not so concerned with sexual repression. The Celtic Orthodoxy spread into Skandinavia too, I believe. I always say if I had to be a mainline Christian I would be Orthodox, as they have maintained folk practices and yet, kept themselves free of Romish corruption.

For a good example of the spirit of the Celtic rite, check out an ancient prayer known as The Breastplate of St. Patrick.

I bind to myself today
The strong virtue of the Invocation of the Trinity:
I believe the Trinity in the Unity
The Creator of the Universe.

I bind to myself today
The virtue of the Incarnation of Christ with His Baptism,
The virtue of His crucifixion with His burial,
The virtue of His Resurrection with His Ascension,
The virtue of His coming on the Judgement Day.

I bind to myself today
The virtue of the love of seraphim,
In the obedience of angels,
In the hope of resurrection unto reward,
In prayers of Patriarchs,
In predictions of Prophets,
In preaching of Apostles,
In faith of Confessors,
In purity of holy Virgins,
In deeds of righteous men.

I bind to myself today
The power of Heaven,
The light of the sun,
The brightness of the moon,
The splendour of fire,
The flashing of lightning,
The swiftness of wind,
The depth of sea,
The stability of earth,
The compactness of rocks.

I bind to myself today
God's Power to guide me,
God's Might to uphold me,
God's Wisdom to teach me,
God's Eye to watch over me,
God's Ear to hear me,
God's Word to give me speech,
God's Hand to guide me,
God's Way to lie before me,
God's Shield to shelter me,
God's Host to secure me,
Against the snares of demons,
Against the seductions of vices,
Against the lusts of nature,
Against everyone who meditates injury to me,
Whether far or near,
Whether few or with many.

I invoke today all these virtues
Against every hostile merciless power
Which may assail my body and my soul,
Against the incantations of false prophets,
Against the black laws of heathenism,
Against the false laws of heresy,
Against the deceits of idolatry,
Against the spells of women, and smiths, and druids,
Against every knowledge that binds the soul of man.

Christ, protect me today
Against every poison, against burning,
Against drowning, against death-wound,
That I may receive abundant reward.

Christ with me, Christ before me,
Christ behind me, Christ within me,
Christ beneath me, Christ above me,
Christ at my right, Christ at my left,
Christ in the fort,
Christ in the chariot seat, [i.e., travelling by land]
Christ in the poop. [i.e., travelling by water]

Christ in the heart of everyone who thinks of me,
Christ in the mouth of everyone who speaks to me,
Christ in every eye that sees me,
Christ in every ear that hears me.

I bind to myself today
The strong virtue of an invocation of the Trinity,
I believe the Trinity in the Unity
The Creator of the Universe.

I remember reading in Thomas Cahill's [I]How the Irish saved Civilization of another mystical poem, wherein were the words: "I see my Master's blood in every rose, and His cross in every tree." I was moved by this; it is so much more pantheistic, and more true to our heritage whether Celtic or Germanic.

Oswiu
Friday, November 21st, 2008, 06:01 PM
Interesting site for Orthodoxy in Britain:
http://www.sourozh.org/web/British_Orthodox_Saints

Ikon of British Saints, Orthodox style:
http://www.sourozh.org/c/images/d/df/Allsaints.jpg

A document on Anglican/Orthodox relations - including controversy over the ordination of women - and the possibilities of Union;
http://www.cofe.anglican.org/about/gensynod/agendas/gs1706.rtf

I've been looking around in vain for some position statement on behalf of Anglicans as to why all their cathedrals have started having Icons in them. Can anyone help? I've seen them in Durham, Hexham, Chester, Manchester...