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Combatent
Tuesday, April 13th, 2004, 08:49 PM
Do you believe in a Europe of the Peoples?. It's known that the states of Europe as a whole don't coincide with the real nations. What do you think about the right of the stateless nations of Europe to built a state like others?

PeterMW
Tuesday, April 13th, 2004, 08:52 PM
Do you believe in a Europe of the Peoples?. It's known that the states of Europe as a whole don't coincide with the real nations. What do you think about the right of the stateless nations of Europe to built a state like others?It would ease many tensions if geographical boundaries were aligned more closely with cultural/racial/linguistic ones. However the Eurovision song contest would last for days!

Taras Bulba
Tuesday, April 13th, 2004, 08:53 PM
LONG LIVE A EUROPE OF 100 FLAGS! :D

Siegfried
Tuesday, April 13th, 2004, 09:11 PM
I believe Europe should be composed of a large number of highly autonomous folkish communities and small states, all working under the umbrella of a pan-European Imperium.

Combatent
Tuesday, April 13th, 2004, 09:13 PM
LONG LIVE A EUROPE OF 100 FLAGS! :D
I'm talking seriously friend. A lot of Catalans, Basques, Britons, Welshmen, Walloons, Flemish, Scotish, Corsicans, Sardinians, Alsatians, Occitans, Frisians, Galicians and more don't find their "place under the Sun" of Europe because they are opressed by alien states. What about the Catalans for example?. There are more than 7 milions of Catalan speakers and Catalonia it's not a state. Why Luxembourg, Liechstenstein, Slovenia or San marino have a "right" to be a state and Catalonia or the Basque Country haven't it?.
It's logical?. I don't think so.

Vlad Cletus
Tuesday, April 13th, 2004, 09:16 PM
I don't think bitter, old conflicts can resolve to tell you the truth. Some states wouldn't unite. Just look at Yugoslavia, it eventually broke up.

Taras Bulba
Tuesday, April 13th, 2004, 09:23 PM
I'm talking seriously friend.

As am I? Im offended you try to imply I think this is a joke.

Anton Asen
Tuesday, April 13th, 2004, 10:07 PM
Hello guys, I am still new here... but I enjoy the stuff... well Europe of the Peoples?? Hmmm why not... but when I saw the atteched map... one question... Why Germany was united on the map...while the Czech republic... Italy... France were divided??? Or Macedonia... you know the MAcedonians are actually Bulgarians.... it's strange... don't you think...

Combatent
Tuesday, April 13th, 2004, 10:25 PM
Hello guys, I am still new here... but I enjoy the stuff... well Europe of the Peoples?? Hmmm why not... but when I saw the atteched map... one question... Why Germany was united on the map...while the Czech republic... Italy... France were divided??? Or Macedonia... you know the MAcedonians are actually Bulgarians.... it's strange... don't you think...
Hello Anton Asen:
The attached map shows the nations of Europe. There are a lot of nations under the "official" states. As an example: in Spain you can find Castilians, Andalusians, Galicians, Basques, Catalans and more.
It's not clear - as far as I know - that Macedonia is a part of the Bulgarian nation. I'm sure that the Macedonians aren't agree with this idea :)

American Nationalist
Wednesday, April 14th, 2004, 02:25 AM
Yes, definitely! Europe should be composed of small ethnic states ruled by direct democracy. These small states would be confederated in a Confederation of Europe. The Confederation of Europe would have limited powers granted to it by the individual nations/states. Each small nation would have a conscript militia similiar to the Swiss System. The Confederation would have a "Euro Corps" made up of Volunteers to protect the Confederation from outside aggression. http://fotw.vexillum.com/images/g/gb-en-wx.gif Nation of Wessex
http://fotw.vexillum.com/images/f/fic-opf2.gif European Confederation

Check out this site: http://www.devolve.org/

Vestmannr
Wednesday, April 14th, 2004, 03:14 AM
It is a political idea to which I have been committed for a long time. Not just for Europe, either.

Deo Vindice, Resurgam.

American Nationalist
Wednesday, April 14th, 2004, 03:46 AM
Italian site: http://www.leganord.org/ (http://http://www.leganord.org/)

http://www.flagquest.com/fotw/images/i/it-lgfr2.gif Friuli

http://www.flagquest.com/fotw/images/g/gb-wales.gif Wales

http://www.flagquest.com/fotw/images/f/fr-occit.gif Occitanie

Stew
Wednesday, April 14th, 2004, 04:01 AM
That is a beautiful map! I wish that is how europe looked now, and I hope with all my being that it it how it one day looks.

There some minor changes that I would make to it, but I dont want to argue symantics. (Northern Ireland and parts of eastern Germany (Silesia for instance).

NormanBlood
Wednesday, April 14th, 2004, 05:54 AM
Yes...but I would divide france further. Making Île de France, France..Normandy should be unified and be its own "nation". While Brittany (Armorica) should be its own it should be a part of a unified "Gaul" (most Celtic regions of France united). Normandy would be on its own, like other Teutonic regions of France. And with Germany Saxony(unified), Frisia etc. should be made into "nations" of their own.

AngryPotato
Wednesday, April 14th, 2004, 06:03 AM
Where would us mutts fall into place? Some little island west of the mainland? ;) Its a sad thing to not be able to attach oneself to any particular region because your ancestors mixed with other groups. European without a doubt, Northern European most definitely, but where I would actually plant my feet would be in the air. Even with this question I still like the idea of a regional Europe decided by culture.

NormanBlood
Wednesday, April 14th, 2004, 06:07 AM
Angry Potato, a person of mixed European descent should follow which ever side they feel closest to. For example, a person of Irish and Swedish descent should go to whicheevr they feel closest too...there is always one that draws the individual more than the other. Go with that and consider that your "ethnicity" or "culture". Once you make the choice, it should be official..no going back ;)

Ederico
Wednesday, April 14th, 2004, 01:33 PM
I agree in general.

Johannes de León
Wednesday, April 14th, 2004, 06:39 PM
I believe Europe should be composed of a large number of highly autonomous folkish communities and small states, all working under the umbrella of a pan-European Imperium.
i totally agree with you... for me it will not make a big difference, but for instance, in galicia, my neighbour region, i have seen lots of times written on the walls: "Galicia is not Spain" and a Spanish flag, crossed, and then a big Galician flag! so, i guess they would like such thing as this divisions!:P

Angelcynn Beorn
Thursday, April 15th, 2004, 04:17 PM
Umm, no, i think its a stupid idea. Realpolitiks are based on power, not fairness, just like life. To divide Europe into smaller states (basically penalising those nations that were powerful enough to conquer others) would rob people of any real power. How would you expect a nation like Catalan to have any say in world affairs if they cant even gain their independance from a small, and quite divided, state like Spain to begin with? Power, not fuzzy ideaology, is what makes the world go round.

Also some questions. If you believe in localised independance, why is Italy shown as a unified country, when its one of the most heterogenous in Europe? You also have Cornwall as an independant area, despit the fact that most Cornish consider themselves English, and Ulster as part of Ireland, despit the fact that most Ulstermen consider themselves British.

Combatent
Thursday, April 15th, 2004, 05:17 PM
Umm, no, i think its a stupid idea. Realpolitiks are based on power, not fairness, just like life. To divide Europe into smaller states (basically penalising those nations that were powerful enough to conquer others) would rob people of any real power. How would you expect a nation like Catalan to have any say in world affairs if they cant even gain their independance from a small, and quite divided, state like Spain to begin with? Power, not fuzzy ideaology, is what makes the world go round.

Also some questions. If you believe in localised independance, why is Italy shown as a unified country, when its one of the most heterogenous in Europe? You also have Cornwall as an independant area, despit the fact that most Cornish consider themselves English, and Ulster as part of Ireland, despit the fact that most Ulstermen consider themselves British.
Jamopy:
In the description of your trends do you say that you are an "English Nationalist", but I don't think so. I think - based on your own words - that you are a British Nationalist.
Truly, when you say "(...) To divide Europe into smaller states (basically penalising those nations that were powerful enough to conquer others) would you rob people of any real power. (...)", you are showing an extremist social-darwinist conception aplied to the European geopolitical order. But I have bad news for you: you are wrong. You are wrong because you couldn't to buildt an harmonic Europe without the stateless nations. An it is impossible because by the way to impose the jacobin states between us the Europeans always there are a lot of people that try to fight against the strangers imposition.
You say that how I can expect a Nation like Catalonia to have any to say in world affairs if we can't ever gain our independence from Spain. Well, this is not the correct approach: just the correct is that a Nation like Catalonia haven't any to say in world affairs because we can yet gain our independence from Spain :)

Prince Eugen
Friday, April 16th, 2004, 06:56 PM
I vote yes .Ofcourse EU is the union of capitalists not the Europe of peoples and Nations.United Europe with a mutual respect of cultural and ethnicity differences the Europe of 100 flags!
My dream !!!!!AVE !
MAGNA EUROPA PATRIA NOSTRA EST!!!!

Combatent
Sunday, April 18th, 2004, 10:39 AM
Umm, no, i think its a stupid idea. Realpolitiks are based on power, not fairness, just like life. To divide Europe into smaller states (basically penalising those nations that were powerful enough to conquer others) would rob people of any real power. How would you expect a nation like Catalan to have any say in world affairs if they cant even gain their independance from a small, and quite divided, state like Spain to begin with? Power, not fuzzy ideaology, is what makes the world go round.

Also some questions. If you believe in localised independance, why is Italy shown as a unified country, when its one of the most heterogenous in Europe? You also have Cornwall as an independant area, despit the fact that most Cornish consider themselves English, and Ulster as part of Ireland, despit the fact that most Ulstermen consider themselves British.

The resistence against Spain and France in Catalonia is a fact. In 2002, for example:

- On January 25th, in Barcelona, red paint is dropped on a statute of a Spaniard Nationalist leader from the cemetery of Sant Andreu. Also, the sculpture is painted.


- On January 27th, in Terrassa, the statue of Alfons Sala, supporter of the Spanish monarchy is painted. The action is claimed by the Escamot Egarenc d'Alliberament Nacional (Egarenc National Liberation Commando).

- On January 28th, in Lleida, the infrastructure of a delegation of the Spanish Government is attacked with Molotov cocktails.

- On February 1st, in Barcelona, a Spanish flag is pulled out from the top of the Town Hall of Nou Barris district. The action is claimed to be done by the Escamot Barceloní d’Alliberament Nacional (Barcelonian National Liberation Commando).

- On February 15th, in Terrassa, several establishments and commerce’s from downtown of the city that advertise in Castilian get sticker sin their walls with the slogan: “This enterprise discriminates Catalan”.

- On march 2nd 2002: Eggs with paint are thrown to the windows and the anagram of the Spanish Nationalist party PP headquarters in Nou Barris (Barcelona) and also to the plates of the Borbó Avenue from Barcelona.

On March 13th, in Baix Empordà, several Spanish and French flags from camping’s, hotels and supermarkets are pulled out.

- On march 13th, in Barcelona F.C.-Nou Camp, a huge panel saying “Freedom for Catalonia” is hung while the game against the Liverpool is taking place. This action can be seen in all international televisions and it can also be seen by the Spaniard King, who is watching the game at the stadium.

- On March 20th, in the Barcelona F.C.-Nou Camp, two people tie themselves to the goal posters for 10 minutes, protesting against globalization and in defense of the stateless nations of Europe. Also, a big panel saying “Freedom for Catalonia” is hung. The action is commented all around the world.

- On March 29th, in Gandia, the Front de Desesperats en Defensa de la Terra (Desperates Front on Defense of the Home) steals the spanish flag from the delegation of Taxes. The day after, the flag is burnt.

- On march 30th, he Spanish flag disappears from the courts of La Seu d’Urgell.

- On April 23rd, in Girona, several people with their faces covered throw excrements into the stand of books of the Spanish Nationalist party PP.

- On April 23rd, in El Bruc, the symbol of the “Bull Osborne” situated in the driveway N-II is covered with a Catalan flag. This is one of the few “Bulls” left at our driveways.

- On April 23rd, in Barcelona's downtown, thousands of people gathered by the CAL (a League to defense the Catalan) demonstrate under the slogan:“It is not enough with these laws. Let’s fight for Catalan”.

- On april 23rd, in Barcelona F.C.-Camp Nou during the semifinals of the Champions League, the JNC (Nationalist Catalonian Youth) hangs a panel of 30x2 square meters and with the slogan “Catalonia is not Spain”. The Spanish TV tried avoiding it. It reminded the day 2 people tied themselves to the goalies.

- On April 26th, in València, 40.000 people walk along the streets, gathered to remember the battle of Almansa and under the slogan “We are a nation”.

- On June 23rd, La Seu d’Urgell: The glass portal of the headquarter of Telefónica (Spanish Phone Company) in La Seu d’Urgell appears broken and disappears the Spanish flag from the hotel “El Castell”, one of the most luxurious of the region.

- On June 16th, disappears the Spanish flag from the court of La Seu d’Urgell by a vindicative group. The week after disappear the Spanish fluttered flags from all the hotels of the city.

- On July 15th, La Seu d’Urgell: different paintings are made in all the city under the slogan “La Seu no és d’Espanya” (La Seu is not from Spain).

- On July 15th in Vic: the Spanish flag from the police of the town is burnt. An agent replaces it for a small flag hanged on the balcony leaning on the mast, which supported the dead flag.

- On July 27th, Barcelona: disappears the Spanish flag that flew on the La Salut district Town Hall till then.

- On July 27th: L’Estartit: the Popular Army staff from Països Catalans (Catalan Nations) made an announcement in internet and Saturday 07-27-2002 about 250 volunteer patriots met them in the breakwater of L’Estartit. At 12:50 begins the so called operation “Julivert” (Parsley) and the troupes sail with barges to Illes Medes (Medes Islands). Guided by the Commander Pere Gil they reconquest the big Meda, where they proclaim the provisional freedom declaration. From there, and supported by the Infantry Forces waiting for them in L’Estartit, they start the reconquest of the Països Catalans after more than 3 centuries occupied by the Frenchmen and the Spaniards.

Angelcynn Beorn
Sunday, April 18th, 2004, 01:20 PM
Jamopy:
In the description of your trends do you say that you are an "English Nationalist", but I don't think so. I think - based on your own words - that you are a British Nationalist.

Well then im happy to set you straight, i am in fact an English Nationalist.


Truly, when you say "(...) To divide Europe into smaller states (basically penalising those nations that were powerful enough to conquer others) would you rob people of any real power. (...)", you are showing an extremist social-darwinist conception aplied to the European geopolitical order. But I have bad news for you: you are wrong. You are wrong because you couldn't to buildt an harmonic Europe without the stateless nations.

But Europe has never been harmonic at any point in its history. I fail to see how dividing Europe into a patchwork of petty states, squabbling over natural resources, borders, etc, will help in any way, shape or form. By penalising the strong and rewarding the weak, you are undeniably making Europe weaker, especially in the eyes of our non-European competitors.


An it is impossible because by the way to impose the jacobin states between us the Europeans always there are a lot of people that try to fight against the strangers imposition.

Then how do you expect a continent like Europe, especially with as many different states as you propose, to be unified in purpose without some form of coercion? In any large empire (which is the only way you can describe a pan-European bloc) the weaker peoples and minorities are always forced to go along with the majority, as otherwise the empire breaks down. For example, if the president of Friesland decided to open his borders to black immigrants to improve his economy, what would you do? Either allow him to do so, in which case the idea of pan-european unity is dead. Or step in to force him to stop, in which case Friesland is no longer a sovereign state, but just a region of a larger state, as it is now.


You say that how I can expect a Nation like Catalonia to have any to say in world affairs if we can't ever gain our independence from Spain. Well, this is not the correct approach: just the correct is that a Nation like Catalonia haven't any to say in world affairs because we can yet gain our independence from Spain :)

Your missing my point though. If Catalonia cant even makes itself heard in a small (40 million) and quite weak (by European standards) state like Spain, what sort of influence can it hope to exert in the global jungle of 6 billion?

Turificator
Sunday, April 18th, 2004, 08:53 PM
A new Roman Empire to unite the European land!

Jean Thiriart and Drieu La Rochelle's dream lives on!

EUROPE
JEUNESSE
REVOLUTION-
VENETO LIBARO!

www.raixevenete.net

Dr. Solar Wolff
Monday, April 19th, 2004, 07:34 AM
I believe you Europeans should do what is in your hearts. Also, throw the USA out of NATO.

kinvolk
Monday, April 19th, 2004, 09:02 PM
I believe you Europeans should do what is in your hearts. Also, throw the USA out of NATO.
Yes,,.. Please toss us out. Throw us out of the jew-n ,, Oh, I mean the U.N. Also!

NormanBlood
Monday, April 19th, 2004, 10:09 PM
A new Roman Empire to unite the European land!

Its because of the Romans that we are in this situation to begin with. The Roman Empire did nothing but fuck over other European peoples. Not only that but Roman society was to every extent degenerate. The America of that age...its the LAST thing we need.

Ebusitanus
Monday, April 19th, 2004, 10:18 PM
Nice to see Pushkin has come to his senses and clamors for a Europe of the 100 Flags. Yes,thats the spirit. I support Pan-Europeism 110%

Europe should be divided amongst these lines yet I strongly object to Bernhardt´s blind rage against the Castillians, me living in part of the so called Països Catalans myself.


The European SS saw the new Europe in the form of three great components; central Europe as the power house of Europe, western Europe as the cultural heart of Europe and eastern Europe as the potential of Europe. Thus the Europe the SS envisioned was alive and real. Its six hundred million inhabitants would live from the North Sea to Vladivostok. It was in this span of 8,000 miles that Europe could achieve its destiny. A space for young people to start new lives. This Europe would be the beacon of the world. A remarkable racial ensemble. An ancient civilization, a spirtitual force and the most advanced technological and scientific complex. The SS prepared for the high destiny of
Europe.

Léon Degrelle

Turificator
Tuesday, April 20th, 2004, 09:53 AM
Its because of the Romans that we are in this situation to begin with. The Roman Empire did nothing but fuck over other European peoples. Not only that but Roman society was to every extent degenerate. The America of that age...its the LAST thing we need.

To compare the Roman Empire with American imperialism is blasphemous (Julius Evola, among many others, wrote extensively about the subject). I agree that corruption did spread in Rome (Ammianus Marcellinus' narrative gives some idea for the fourth century...), but the idea of Imperium I have in mind is not contingent, but universal. The Empire is a super-national spirtual and political entity, a higher order heirarchically structured to order men's lives (while at the same time allowing a significant amount of personal freedom and self-administration: it's not a totalitarian State).

Anyway, while I maintain a spiritual Imperium to be the highest political ideal for the Indo-European peoples (who are, or at least were, a race of conquerors), I'd be very glad to witness any shift away from multiculturalism, industrialism and consumerism, and towards a more communitarian, rural society, whatever form it might take. The important thing I feel is to realize that materialist liberal-capitalism, with its individualist values bent on material profit, are the primary enemy of Europe.