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Dagna
Tuesday, August 12th, 2008, 09:41 PM
More dads stay home with small babies

Six out of ten fathers stay home with their children for more than six weeks. This is twice as many as in 1999.

Working parents are entitled to leave for up to a year with 80 percent pay, to look after their newborn children.

In theory, only the first few weeks are specifically reserved for the mother. In practice, mothers have tended to stay home through most of the the child's first year. Increasing numbers of fathers are however taking care of small babies for longer, according to news bureau NTB.

To boost the numbers who take paternity leave, one month of the year's quota has been reserved for fathers.

The recent figures show that more men are staying home for longer. This is considered good for creating closer bonds between fathers and their children. If men are increasingly likely to take paternity leave, this may ultimately strengthen women job applicants' opportunities in the labour market.

Equality commissioner, Beate Gangås still thinks progress is too slow. "At this rate it will take more than three generations before a majority of fathers stay home with their children for more than eight weeks."

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article2578162.ece

Mrs. Lyfing
Wednesday, August 13th, 2008, 01:48 AM
I don't see anything wrong with the father staying home if thats what him and his wife have worked out. Its good for them to want to be home, that beats a dead beat dad any day.

MockTurtle
Friday, August 15th, 2008, 10:59 AM
More dads stay home with small babies

[...]

In theory, only the first few weeks are specifically reserved for the mother. In practice, mothers have tended to stay home through most of the the child's first year. Increasing numbers of fathers are however taking care of small babies for longer, according to news bureau NTB.

Question: Do they stay home together, or do the women tend to work while the father is taking care of the small babies?



[...]

The recent figures show that more men are staying home for longer. This is considered good for creating closer bonds between fathers and their children.

Close bonds between fathers and children are good, IMO; however, it is vital that the children receive the best possible economic support in these early developing years. It might have negative consequences because men tend to significantly outearn women, at least here in the US (the 'pay gap' is widest between Nordish men/women).

OneEnglishNorman
Saturday, August 16th, 2008, 01:09 AM
I oppose paternity leave for fathers. Unless the health of the child or the mother is threatened, the father should return to productive work outside of the home as soon as possible following the birth.

Mrs. Lyfing
Saturday, August 16th, 2008, 01:35 AM
I was watching that show last night where the nanny comes in and tries to help the family. It was a husband and wife and their 3 children. 2 sons and one daughter. The husband worked ( or so he said ) all the time. The wife said he left at 5 am everyday and didn't come home until bed time. He was making no time for his family, and she was a stay at home mom, literally left to do it all alone. The father didn't even know how to act at home, he said he felt un-comfortable and everything. :confused: The wife was in tears over missing her husband, needing his loves, attention, and help with the children. I felt so sorry for her and couldn't help but wonder how could they be so blind? A family must work together, no matter what. Sure, single women do it alone every day, but to be married and doing it alone is unacceptable in my eyes.

MockTurtle
Saturday, August 16th, 2008, 02:35 AM
Sure, single women do it alone every day, but to be married and doing it alone is unacceptable in my eyes.

Actually, I think the current record will show that most 'single mothers' (that's what I assume you meant by 'single women') are far from ideal parents. The children from 'single father' households are comparatively more successful, probably because single fathers tend to be more financially accomplished (http://social.jrank.org/pages/581/Single-Parent-Families-Single-Fathers-Compared-Single-Mothers.html). Still, I don't believe that the situation should be 'relativized' for SES -- if anything, it just shows the foolishness and irresponsibility for not being absolutely certain that there potential mate will stick by them.

Mrs. Lyfing
Saturday, August 16th, 2008, 05:21 AM
Actually, I think the current record will show that most 'single mothers' (that's what I assume you meant by 'single women') are far from ideal parents.

I hear what your saying, but, I really don't live my life by current records, not to imply you do, or that they are or are not ideal parents. Man, *hit happens in life. I can not sit here and say every single parent, man or women is a bad parent just because they are single. Of course it causes issues for the single parent and the child. It doesn't mean its tainted though. In my life I have found no matter what you may or may not experience in your childhood, teenager-ness, adult-ness is all about dealing with issues. Life is both beautiful and tragic no matter which path we take. So, the best thing to do is take the good and run with it. :)




it just shows the foolishness and irresponsibility for not being absolutely certain that there potential mate will stick by them.

Do you realize what you just said? What in life is certain? Almost nothing. You can not look down and say " irresponsible " again, *hit happens. Sometimes, things don't work out, people die, people change their mind, people fall out of love, people learn their partner is not who they thought they were, people make mistakes, its all in nature really. I must say though, the ones that stick together, families that is, hell yeah, there is nothing better. If you read what I was really saying in that post is how important togetherness is. :)

CrystalRose
Saturday, August 16th, 2008, 09:01 AM
I oppose paternity leave for fathers. Unless the health of the child or the mother is threatened, the father should return to productive work outside of the home as soon as possible following the birth.

I feel it's equally important for the father to bond with his newborn. Also helping his wife recover especially if she needed surgery. If financially you have to return to work asap then maybe one should think twice about having children.

MockTurtle
Saturday, August 16th, 2008, 03:59 PM
Life is both beautiful and tragic no matter which path we take. So, the best thing to do is take the good and run with it. :)

All very true, but I was really just trying to bring to light a typically obscured fact that many people don't know about. It's important, after all, to realize that there are plenty of males who struggle daily to provide for the children that they have taken primary custody over, for all sorts of different reasons.



Do you realize what you just said? What in life is certain? Almost nothing. You can not look down and say " irresponsible " again, *hit happens. Sometimes, things don't work out, people die, people change their mind, people fall out of love, people learn their partner is not who they thought they were, people make mistakes, its all in nature really.

Lol, I'm not going to believe for a second that most single parent homes are created by happenstance or excusable acts of poor judgment; the majority of them are created for just the reason I pointed out, irresponsibility. Part of being responsible is using foresight and being as certain as possible that one's potential mate is compatible for commitment/reproduction. If you aren't sufficiently certain, then the situation shouldn't reach that stage. Yes, there are some things that we can't control, but if people took full advantage of those things that we do have control over the percentage of 'broken families' would decrease dramatically.

In the older culture of the West, for example, people used better foresight and judgment when selecting a mate; they didn't 'play around', and therefore the number of single parent families was substantially lower.



I must say though, the ones that stick together, families that is, hell yeah, there is nothing better. If you read what I was really saying in that post is how important togetherness is. :)

Oh, I understand what you meant by that; but there are other sides to the situation, as well. :)

Jäger
Saturday, August 16th, 2008, 05:35 PM
I don't see anything wrong with the father staying home if thats what him and his wife have worked out.
Not he and his wife, only he.


It might have negative consequences because men tend to significantly outearn women, at least here in the US (the 'pay gap' is widest between Nordish men/women).
It is similar in Germany, but on what do you base the Nordish part?


Sure, single women do it alone every day..
And suck at it most of the time.


... but to be married and doing it alone is unacceptable in my eyes.
I agree.


Do you realize what you just said? What in life is certain?
I bet he does, that something can happen along the way, does not mean you shouldn't be certain about your partner.

And so far the state only encourages such disloyal behavior.


If financially you have to return to work asap then maybe one should think twice about having children.
Too late then, one should think twice before engaging with a man who can't provide for the family.

MockTurtle
Saturday, August 16th, 2008, 07:00 PM
It is similar in Germany, but on what do you base the Nordish part?

The statistics (http://www.womensmedia.com/new/Lips-Hilary-gender-wage-gap.shtml) will show that the income gap is widest between 'White' men and 'White' women (these are government statistics, so obviously they won't use terms like 'Nordish'). As it stands, White women earn less than 70% of what White men earn in the US (according to averages). The gap gets more and more pronounced as you proceed further out along the highest earners too, just as we would expect from the given fact that men dominate at the extreme right-end of the bell curve. I don't think there's any reason to believe that the Nordish element of this population will show a smaller gap; probably just the opposite, seeing as how the males from the Nordish population are most likely to be highly successful (as measured by income, that is).

Other ethnic/racial groups show significantly smaller gaps in earnings between the males/females. The Negro race is a good example; the difference within this group is much smaller, mostly because Black women are much more likely to reach higher education than the men.


[...]

"The Wage Gap Exists Within Racial/Ethnic Groups"

White men are not the only group that out-earns women, although the wage gap is largest between white men and white women.

[...]

"What Difference Does Education Make?"

Higher levels of education increase women’s earnings, just as they do for men. However, there is no evidence that the gender gap in wages closes at higher levels of education. If anything, the reverse is true: at the very highest levels of education, the gap is at its largest, as shown in this chart.

Mrs. Lyfing
Saturday, August 16th, 2008, 09:17 PM
Not he and his wife, only he.

I am not sure what you mean?



And suck at it most of the time.

I'm glad I am not a single parent, I would be totally offended by now. So, let me try to explain my view again. If the single parent is the one taking care of the child, and this time lets assume its a mother, isn't she the one there taking care of her child. Do you think most women do not let the father know they are the father? Don't you think most women want the father there for both her and her child? Don't you think the dead beat dad is the one to call " sucks " and is the one who is the let down, not the single mother. Don't you think plenty of men whisper sweet nothings in the womens ear and then disappear when its baby time??? So, if ya'll want to name call, lets at least put the focus where it belongs. ;) At least the single parent has kept their child and most I am sure do the best they can for their child.



I bet he does, that something can happen along the way, does not mean you shouldn't be certain about your partner.

Yes, but do you get the point you may be sure about your partner but they may not be certain of you?


And so far the state only encourages such disloyal behavior.

True.

Jäger
Sunday, August 17th, 2008, 08:34 AM
I am not sure what you mean?
It's about what he worked out, not he and his wife.


Do you think most women do not let the father know they are the father? Don't you think most women want the father there for both her and her child?
Yeah, but why has this anything to do with that single woman suck at raising a family? Possible they didn't want it to be that way, doesn't change the fact that it is how it is.


Don't you think the dead beat dad is the one to call " sucks " and is the one who is the let down, not the single mother.
This depends why he has left her, at any rate this doesn't change the fact that the single woman sucks at raising a family either.


Don't you think plenty of men whisper sweet nothings in the womens ear and then disappear when its baby time???
Oh yes, but I blame the women for their arrogance and naivety.
A woman can not judge a man, too less knowledge of the ways of a man and too much fluffy flowers in their head when it is most crucial.
In every society it was common that a man who had already established a working relationship helped the woman to judge, in most cases this would be the father.
Yet, today's woman want no one to interfere with their individual decision based exclusively on hedonism, and then they should take full responsibility for it (but they are not held accountable in this society), of course they don't care that much, because in most of the cases where they choose idiotic partners they will just leave him, and the state makes it easier and easier to do so.


So, if ya'll want to name call, lets at least put the focus where it belongs. ;)
Yes, only those can suck at raising a family, that do the raising of a family.


At least the single parent has kept their child and most I am sure do the best they can for their child.
I don't accuse them of bad intentions, just of stupidity and incapability of doing the work they have chosen to do.


Yes, but do you get the point you may be sure about your partner but they may not be certain of you?
Ya, but better one than none.
I admit it is very hard in this society, but as soon as people are held accountable for their word, it will work out that way :)

Mrs. Lyfing
Thursday, August 21st, 2008, 04:14 AM
It's about what he worked out, not he and his wife.


So, you don't think they should decide together?




Yeah, but why has this anything to do with that single woman suck at raising a family? Possible they didn't want it to be that way, doesn't change the fact that it is how it is.

I don't understand how you think you know so much about every single person to make such a harsh judgment? :rolleyes:

What about men? Do they suck at this as well? :o


This depends why he has left her, at any rate this doesn't change the fact that the single woman sucks at raising a family either.

How do you know he left her? Couldn't she leave him? Hmmmm...do I feel some sexist-ness going on? :confused:



Oh yes, but I blame the women for their arrogance and naivety.

Trust me, men are far much more arrogant than women ever will be. ;)
Naive we may be, but, you know why? BECAUSE OF MEN.



A woman can not judge a man

But, you can judge a women? Hmmm again.


too less knowledge of the ways of a man and too much fluffy flowers in their head when it is most crucial.

Surely not, did you? You Did. "too less knowledge of the ways of a man" seems arrogant in itself, don't ya think? ;) You think we don't know. Your wrong. You ( men ) are the ones who can never figure out women. ;) BTW, I have much more in my head than fluffy flowers. :D Theres rainbows too. :p



Yes, only those can suck at raising a family, that do the raising of a family.

How many families have you raised? :o


I don't accuse them of bad intentions, just of stupidity and incapability of doing the work they have chosen to do.

That contradicts itself.



I admit it is very hard in this society, but as soon as people are held accountable for their word, it will work out that way

Best thing you said yet!!!! But still, will not always work. ;)

Jäger
Thursday, August 21st, 2008, 02:31 PM
So, you don't think they should decide together?
Indeed.


I don't understand how you think you know so much about every single person to make such a harsh judgment? :rolleyes:
Of course there might be exceptions, but for a general rule I don't have to know every single person, and every exception.
Empirical data supports my view quite well. :)


What about men? Do they suck at this as well? :o
They fare a little better, but it is still not good.


How do you know he left her? Couldn't she leave him? Hmmmm...do I feel some sexist-ness going on? :confused:
I got you wrong then, I thought you were implying that he left her.
Who leaves whom is not so important anyways, only the reasons.


Trust me, men are far much more arrogant than women ever will be. ;)
I doubt, but anyways, I probably should have said unjustified arrogance, self delusions so to say ;)


Naive we may be, but, you know why? BECAUSE OF MEN.
That's what I said, yet, they do not intend to let anyone help them.


But, you can judge a women? Hmmm again.
In general, it is not so important to make such judgments for the man, since he isn't the one who gives himself into dependency.
Still, they really seem to do better here, so yes. :)


"too less knowledge of the ways of a man" seems arrogant in itself, don't ya think? ;)
Nope, I don't think so.


You think we don't know. Your wrong. You ( men ) are the ones who can never figure out women. ;)
If women knew, and still made the wrong decisions, then I would assume it is they mean ill for our society.
But no worries, so far that's not what I am leaning to. :D

And women are not hard to figure out, the problem is that you depend on moods not will, and thus your behavior can change pretty quick, but other than that, we got it under control :D


How many families have you raised? :o
Why do you want to steer the discussion to me as a person? It is not about me, and what I have done or not done, is irrelevant for the argument.


That contradicts itself.
How so?


Best thing you said yet!!!! But still, will not always work. ;)
So? Who said it will always work?
(You are lucky you didn't use one more exclamation mark, you know what they say about those people?)

Mrs. Lyfing
Saturday, August 23rd, 2008, 02:55 PM
Of course there might be exceptions, but for a general rule I don't have to know every single person, and every exception.
Empirical data supports my view quite well. :)

I don't know about this empirical data but I know about living life, and seeing what I have seen by others through living and I don't see so much negative as you might think.



They fare a little better, but it is still not good.

Totally disagree, if a child can only have one parent, it needs its mother, most would agree. Right Ya'll? ;)

If your thinking about money, and implying a man can provide better, untrue. If your thinking money is more important than love, untrue. The mother will make the money for her child and their needs just fine, the ones who don't...well thats another story. ( and who are not who I am referring to in my defense ) If your thinking anyone can love a child more than its mother, untrue. Most would agree, right ya'll ? ;)



I got you wrong then, I thought you were implying that he left her.
Who leaves whom is not so important anyways, only the reasons.

She leaves him, he leaves her, reasons of why, really don't matter either. What matters now is the two parents work together to insure this child's stableness and shown lots of love and equality from the parents. It can work out, and the child may just become a white man who loves his race, belongs to this forum and has a good career. ;)


I doubt, but anyways, I probably should have said unjustified arrogance, self delusions so to say ;)

I don't look at it that way...lol







If women knew, and still made the wrong decisions, then I would assume it is they mean ill for our society.

And, the men? :o


And women are not hard to figure out, the problem is that you depend on moods not will, and thus your behavior can change pretty quick, but other than that, we got it under control :D

MMMhmmm, only some do. IMO



Why do you want to steer the discussion to me as a person? It is not about me, and what I have done or not done, is irrelevant for the argument.

Don't intend to my apologies :)



So? Who said it will always work?


The world is still turning, something must be working.



(You are lucky you didn't use one more exclamation mark, you know what they say about those people?)

Actually, I don't.

Jäger
Saturday, August 23rd, 2008, 03:23 PM
I don't know about this empirical data but I know about living life, and seeing what I have seen by others through living and I don't see so much negative as you might think.
That's fine, of course in such a discussion it doesn't really matter if we just exchange our own experiences.
The empirical data I was referring to is mostly biological in nature, e.g. that a daughter prefers the same T-cell variant in a man, her father has, but which she didn't inherit.
This implies some interesting connection, which should not be cut in the first place, anyways, eventually we need experience (empirical data) to further see any impact on the grown up child of a single parent, so back to square one :D


If your thinking about money, and implying a man can provide better, untrue.
I am thinking about hath a man can teach his kids way more than a woman, no matter her intelligence.


If your thinking money is more important than love, untrue.
Hmm, no I am wondering, are you implying that a man doesn't love his children?


If your thinking anyone can love a child more than its mother, untrue.
How do you measure this love? Or better put, what makes you say this?


She leaves him, he leaves her, reasons of why, really don't matter either.
Idiotic twist of yours, it was about the question of guilt for the child's situation, the reason why one left another is of course important here.


It can work out, and the child may just become a white man who loves his race, belongs to this forum and has a good career. ;)
That does in no way implicate that it worked out.
It is about character, primarily, and woman can't built that, surely not in a son.


And, the men? :o
Have no real choice.


MMMhmmm, only some do. IMO
Not all for sure.


The world is still turning, something must be working.
Yes, the wrong thing.
The world would still keep turning after a nuclear winter with all of us dead.


Actually, I don't.
People who use five exclamation marks wear their pants on the head.

Mrs. Lyfing
Saturday, August 23rd, 2008, 03:38 PM
That's fine, of course in such a discussion it doesn't really matter if we just exchange our own experiences.

Of course not, thats what we are here for. :p



The empirical data I was referring to is mostly biological in nature, e.g. that a daughter prefers the same T-cell variant in a man, her father has, but which she didn't inherit.
This implies some interesting connection, which should not be cut in the first place, anyways, eventually we need experience (empirical data) to further see any impact on the grown up child of a single parent, so back to square one :D

Last sentence I understood and laughed. :D



I am thinking about hath a man can teach his kids way more than a woman, no matter her intelligence.

Ya think? I know actually what you are saying, but, nah. True maybe, only one gender can teach their children somethings, but I know women who mechanic, and men who do gymnastics so to me anything is possible for the love of a child.



Hmm, no I am wondering, are you implying that a man doesn't love his children?

No. I am implying the nature of life and the mother carrying the child and being its mother is different than being the father.


How do you measure this love? Or better put, what makes you say this?

I am a mother.


Idiotic twist of yours, it was about the question of guilt for the child's situation, the reason why one left another is of course important here.

Idiotic not needed to respond. It has some importance but if its over its over, its time to move on and think and do positive. ( both parents )


That does in no way implicate that it worked out.
It is about character, primarily, and woman can't built that, surely not in a son.

Yes we can. Just differently.



Have no real choice.

Life is full of choices.



Not all for sure.

Indeed.


Yes, the wrong thing.
The world would still keep turning after a nuclear winter with all of us dead.

True.


People who use five exclamation marks wear their pants on the head.

I don't recall using five here, but I may have. :)

Jäger
Saturday, August 23rd, 2008, 04:26 PM
Ya think? I know actually what you are saying, but, nah. True maybe, only one gender can teach their children somethings, but I know women who mechanic, and men who do gymnastics so to me anything is possible for the love of a child.
That is not what I meant, I was speaking about character building.


No. I am implying the nature of life and the mother carrying the child and being its mother is different than being the father.
Really? No matter what, if a child needs love and a father loves his child, then case closed.


I am a mother.
Evidently you are no father.


Idiotic not needed to respond. It has some importance but if its over its over, its time to move on and think and do positive. ( both parents )
This is true, but for the question who has guilt, it is of importance. What you are talking about comes after.


Yes we can. Just differently.
Of course, and it is the different style that gives the child the different (bad) character.


Life is full of choices.
You really drop some phrases here, then let it be full of choices, doesn't matter that a man has in this case only the choice of cancer or aids (metaphorical speaking of course :D).


I don't recall using five here, but I may have. :)
You used four, that's why I said you are lucky :)