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bdm
Thursday, July 31st, 2008, 11:29 PM
Specifically. which locations in Europe would one find the highest percentage of pure Atlantids (both Paleo-Atlantids and North-Atlantids) in the make-up of the local living population?

I know you often will hear Wales and Ireland, but which particular areas of these nations, as well as what other countries is it where these tan complected, dark-haired, light-eyed, smooth featured people predominate?

Thanks!

Psychonaut
Friday, August 1st, 2008, 12:03 AM
I'm pretty sure that Coon said their greatest frequency occured along the coasts of Portugal, Northern Spain, Northern France and Southern England.

bdm
Friday, August 1st, 2008, 05:16 PM
I'm pretty sure that Coon said their greatest frequency occured along the coasts of Portugal, Northern Spain, Northern France and Southern England.

I can see there predominance in the North of Spain, but the other three you mentioned don't make sense to me. The coastal Portuguese, from my own personal observations, are probably some of the darkest Mediterraneans I've ever encountered. From their general appearance I'd swear there is a lot of Negroid in their ancestry. The Northern French--I'm assuming you mean the Normans from Normandy, would be blondish or red heads. There is a lot of primary historical evidence which quoted Anglo-Saxon observers who stated most of the Norman invaders in England were 'ginger haired'. The Britons from Brittany are a different story. However, I'd maintain the people of Brittany are more Alpine than Atlantid. As for the south coast of England, I believe there one would find mostly a mix between Anglo-Saxon blonds and mousey haired Keltic Nordics. Cornwall, on the other hand, I'm sure would be a haven for both North Atlantids and Paleo Atlantids. Nevertheless, I don't see that element along the rest of the southern English coast in Sussex, Hampshire, Dorset, or Devon.

Crimson Guard
Friday, August 1st, 2008, 05:41 PM
Neither type exists, as thats Richard McCullochs pseudo-Anthropology meshing of Coon with Lundman, who arent very compatible. Their existence as a separate race or type is not supported by any objective genetic or anthropometric considerations, moreover the North Atlantic was never a source of population, this isnt Thule or Atlantis fiction.

Now, Lundman's "North-Atlantid", was a renaming of French Anthropologist Joseph Deniker's, "North-Western" type variant of the Atlanto-Mediterranean.

Its the same problem with Coon 1930's work, compared to his later writings. The so-called "Brunns" were just a local form primarily in Ireland. No physical anthropologist except Coon ever accepted the existence of a Brunn race. In fact they should be in the Balkans, since its named after an archaic find there.

Moreover, Coon himself later abandoned the concept of a Brunn race, and accepted that Western Europe was inhabited by four races, the Mediterranean, the NW European, the Alpine, and the Nordic. This is a near-perfect match with Deniker's old system. Indeed, the Nord-Occidental(French for North Western) of Deniker . Coon's North-Western type was a mix of the Mediterranean, Nordic and Alpine.

From Deniker;

Atlanto-Mediterranean:

Dark, mesocephalic, tall race, Littoral or Atlanto-Mediterranean race, so styles because it is found in a pure or mixed state along the shores of the Mediterranean from Gibraltar to mouth of the Tibur, and on several points of the Atlantic coast, from the straits of Gibraltar to the mouth of the Guadalquivair, on the Bay of Biscay, in the lower valley of the Loire, ect. It is not met with anywhere at a greater distance that 120 or 150 miles from the sea. This Littoral race is still little studied; it is distinguished by its moderate dolichocephaly or mesocephaly (ceph. ind. on living subjects 79 to 80), by its stature above the average (im. 66), and very deep colouring of the hair and eyes. It corresponds pretty well with the "Mediterranean race" of Houze, and with the Cro-Magnon race of certain authors. It is probably with the Littoral race that we must connect a secondary so-called North-Western race, tall, sub-dolichocephalic, with chestnut hair, often almost brown. It found chiefly in a the north-west of Ireland, in Wales and the east of Belgium.

Oswiu
Friday, August 1st, 2008, 06:03 PM
Its the same problem with Coon 1930's work, compared to his later writings. The so-called "Brunns" were just a local form primarily in Ireland. No physical anthropologist except Coon ever accepted the existence of a Brunn race. In fact they should be in the Balkans, since its named after an archaic find there.

A minor point, but you should be aware that this town is not in the Balkans...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brno
:p

There's nothing wrong with using the term for a modern population that is far away from where the eponymous cranial material was found, as many millenia had passed, and the distributions of races had shifted radically in the meantime. The Bruenn find may well have been a direct ancestor of the types observed in Ireland in the 20th Century. Then again, they may not, and the similarity may be merely superficial, but that's what happen in science - conventional and often inappropriate in origin names often stick. I think it's better to have names for races that are not geographical, as this often confuses laymen; "I'm Dinarid, I must have ancestors from the Dinaric Alps..." :rolleyes:;)

bdm
Friday, August 1st, 2008, 06:28 PM
Eitherway, we are getting wrapped up in semantics here. I'm sure we all agree there is a certain sub-strata, or whatever else you may choose to call it, of the human species in Europe thatis distinguished because of the following simmilar features:

-They are relatively tall and somewhat lean, but not excessively fine boned.
-Their facial counterance is not terribly angular, but they are lean faced with smooth, chisled and symetrical features.
-They are mesocephalic to dolicephalic in head measurements.
-The hair colouring tends to range from very dark brown to jet black and it is often deeply waved or curly.
-The eyes are almost universally light ranging from grey to green to vivd blue.
-While fair in complexion compared to most southern Europeans they do have an ability to tan under sunlight and will often posess very smooth, even-toned, bronzed skin colouring. Skinand hair may be slightly more oily in texture compared to most other northern Europeans.

Do we agree?

Flash Voyager
Friday, August 1st, 2008, 07:24 PM
The "Atlanto-Mediterranean" type is a substantial minority scattered throughout the western European coast line, usually existing in solution with different local types. The idea of an "atlantid" type is questionable since the blend doesn't seem to be stabilised, some appear more CM, Nordic or Alpine influenced depending on the region in question.

bdm
Friday, August 1st, 2008, 07:32 PM
Eitherway, we are getting wrapped up in semantics here. I'm sure we all agree there is a certain sub-strata, or whatever else you may choose to call it, of the human species in Europe thatis distinguished because of the following simmilar features:

-They are relatively tall and somewhat lean, but not excessively fine boned.
-Their facial counterance is not terribly angular, but they are lean faced with smooth, chisled and symetrical features.
-They are mesocephalic to dolicephalic in head measurements.
-The hair colouring tends to range from very dark brown to jet black and it is often deeply waved or curly.
-The eyes are almost universally light ranging from grey to green to vivd blue.
-While fair in complexion compared to most southern Europeans they do have an ability to tan under sunlight and will often posess very smooth, even-toned, bronzed skin colouring. Skinand hair may be slightly more oily in texture compared to most other northern Europeans.

Do we agree?

Alright then, let me put it this way. From the general desription I drew above, where, specifically, would one find people who match this physical appearance in great percentages of the local popultion? Please be specific. I realise this type predominates all around coastal north-western Europe, etc., but where (I'm thinking not just of countries or regions, but povinces or even cities as far as specific locations are concerned) in Europe is this type strongest. I don't just mean number, because if we looked exclusively at number alone a large metropolis like Dublin, Cardiff or London would top the list. I am interested more on how great of an impact they have on the appearance of a loal population makeup (percentages).

Kreis AnnA
Friday, August 1st, 2008, 08:57 PM
Atlantids are real! We are stable and pretty darn smart, too :) In any event, a survey of the Atlantic Race was taken in Central Europe:

The Mediterranean race in Central Europe. By N.N. Cheboksarov.

Traces of Mediterraneans on the Rhine and the Danube.

Notable group variations in the principal anthropological traits are encountered within the confines of the zone where the Central-European complex prevails. Thus, the population of the western half of southern Germany – Baden, Würtemburg and western Bavaria- differs from the typical groups of the Central-European configuration of eastern Bavaria and Franconia. In a direction from east to west, here stature increases markedly (to 169-170 cm), the cephalic index drops (to 82), the face becomes longer and narrower, the percentage of dark hair and eyes rises (to 90% mixed and brown).

A comparison of the Franconians from Keiperbucht, representatives of the Central-European type, with the Swabians of the Bodensee region (Scheidt), shows that the southwester Germans differ from the south-eastern in the direction of an approximation to the Mediterranean major- race, namely to its “Atlantic” or “North-western” variant, which is lighter and taller than the classic Mediterraneans of the “Ibero-Insular” configuration (Deniker). The same conclusion follows from the analysis of the craniological materials from the present-day population of Franconia collected by Jäger: the more westerly the series the more clearly the Mediterranean features appear –mesodolichocephaly, leptorrhiny, etc. The old data of Ammon permit a like direction in the racial alteration of the group in southern Baden to be established: here in the east are concentrated the more brachycephalic and light elements (Baar – ceph. Ind. 84.8, light eyes 54.9%), in the west more mesocephalic and dark (Constance peninsula of the Bodensee – ceph. Ind. 82.2, light eyes 39.2%).

The admixture of the Atlanto-Mediterranean element can be discerned among the Badensians of the Alb walley (Breig) and Baar (Fischer), among the Alsatians of the region of Strassburg (Pfitzner), among the inhabitants of the Palatinate (Roth 68). It is very probable that in the entire basin of the middle Rhine from the Bodensee to the mouth of the Main the Central- European elements are strongly mixed with the Atlantic.

The Atlantic features turn up even more clearly in the population of Switzerland. The representation of this area, based upon old craniological materials, as being the territory of an undisturbed prevalence of the Alpine race, must be abandoned. In the light of recent data of Sclaginhaufen (83, 84) it is clear that in German and French Switzerland (minus the Rhaeto-Italian cantons Graubünden and Ticino) there interact two types: 1) a taller, dark and narrow-headed, concentrated in the western part, and 2) a shorter, light and short-headed, concentrated in the northeast and the center.

The first type – the Atlantic- is clearly drawn in the Romance canton of Vaud about Lake Geneva (ceph. Ind. 79.9); the second is close to the Central-European, in the German canton Appenzellen-Inner Rhoden in the northeast (ceph. Ind. 82.9). Between these two extreme regions there occur all possible transitional groups, which anthropologically are similar to the above-described Rhine series. To them belong, for instance, the Swiss of canton Schaffhausen (Schwertz), in part those of the cantons Graubünden (Wettstein), Schwyz, Lucerne, Unterwalden, Bern and Aargau (Zbinden). The moderate brachycephaly and more than average stature in all these groups goes along with an intense (on the European scale) pigmentation of hair and eyes.

The Mediterranean peculiarities are markedly manifest also in the population of southern Tyrol. The analysis I have produced of the old materials of Tappeiner (89,90) and Toldt has shown that the contemporary Tyrolese present a most complicated conglomeration of various racial types, out of which two emerge most distintly:

1) a light, tall and brachycephalic –Noric or Central-European- and
2) a dark, short, mesocephalic –Mediterranean.

The Noric element is most concentrated in the norther German Tyrol (most clearly in the Lech valley on the boundary next the Vorarlberg, and also in the sources of the Drava in the districts of Windisch-Matrei and Linz). The Mediterranean type, which here belongs not to the Atlantic but rather to the Ibero-Insular short variant, is most centered in the south, in the district populated by the Italians (Cheboksarov).

A definite Mediterranean admixture is traceable, however, also in the German regions, especially where they border on the Italian. It is very noticeable, for instance, in the district of Neumarkt at the sources of the Etsch, where a comparatively moderate cephalic index occurs along with dark color of hair and eyes. It is interesting to remark that in the Tyrol the Mediterranean type links up with heightening of the facial index and the incidence of concave dorsum of nose, while the Noric links up with chamaeprosopy and a prevalence of convex dorsum of nose. The combination of low face and convex nasal dorsum, as we have said above, is characteristic also of the south German light brachycephals of the Central-European configuration.

A quite obvious Atlanto-Mediterranean admixture occurs among the population of Austria. A comparison of the Austrian investigated by Lebzelter and Brezina with the Franconians of Keiperbucht, who are the most pronounced representatives of the Central-European type, easily establishes the existence between the two groups of significant differences having definite trends. The Austrians are taller (168-179 cm), darker (up to 30% brown eyes) and more dolichocephalic (81-82) than the southern Germans, that is they differ from them in the direction of Atlanto-Mediterranean. The works of Weisbach permit us to mark out on general lines regions of the highest concentration of the Atlantic type, who are disposed, on the one hand, in the northeast around Vienna; on the other hand, in the southwest, in northern Styria and in Carinthia. The new data of Brezina and Wastl on Viennese labourers, and of Keiter on the peasants of the Murau district in Styria confirm the figures of Weisbach; but at the same time they indicate that the Mediterranean element is strongly mixed in Austria with other racial types: Central-European, Dinaric, et al. The anthropological heterogeneity of the Austrians is also bespoken by the materials of Lebzelter from the population of Burgenland, where in separate regions (Mattersberg, Eisenstadt, Neusiedl) the Mediterranean peculiarities occur distinctly, whereas in others there predominate combinations of “Central-European” or “Dinaric” character.

The Atlantic type, widely spread in Central Europe, in the morphological sense is transitional between the mesocephlas of Southern and Northern Europe; that is, between the Mediterranean in the narrow sense of the word and the northern races. The relatively dark pigmentation brings the representatives of the Atlantic type close to the Mediterranean elements of Spain and southern Italy; the greater stature relates them to the Nordics of Scandinavia. But this kind of link likewise exists in Eastern Europe: here it is known under the name of “Eastern Great-Russian” (Chepurkovsky) or “North-Pontic” complex (Bunak), which prevails among the Russians of the Kuybyshev and Voronezh districts, and also among the Mordvi-Mokshi.

As early as 1932 Debets showed that to draw a precise line of demarcation between the northern blond narrow-headed Europids and the southern dark ones is very difficult, since between them there is a range of all possible intermediate forms wich yield a graph of continuous distribution in hair and eye-color. In eastern Europe the different variants of the “Pontic” or “Black Sea” race appear as such transitions, while in Western Europe this role is played by the Atlantic elements. In pigmentation, stature and cephalic index the Swiss of the canton Vaud or the Austrian from the environs of Vienna strongly recalls the Russians and the Moksh of the former Penzen Government. The Atlantic and Pontic types are as alike as the Central-European and Valdaian are alike: in both cases we are dealing, in the manifestation in Eastern and Western Europe of analogous raciogenetic processes, with the formation of intermediate links between the dark and the light variants of the European racial stock. The Atlantic-Black Sea sequence reproduces these linkages among the moderately long-headed forms, while the Noric-Valdaian does to among the short-headed.

The appearance of Mediterranean types in Central-Europe can be explained in two ways. On one hand, it is possible that the Atlantic elements in the population of the basins of the upper Rhine and Danube are ancient, and represent nothing more than the modification of those same longheaded “Crô-Magnards” who serve as the connecting link between the light, matured Nordics and the dark, gracile Mediterraneans. On the other hand, the Atlanto-Mediterranids may have come into the Rhineland and Austria comparatively late, in the Roman epoch, when there were numerous Roman garrisons stationated there.

However, the two suppositions are not mutually exclusive; both look sufficiently plausible. Whether to accept them both together or to choose between them, must be resolved by further concrete palaeanthropological materials from those regions of Central Europe in which the Mediterranean admixture shows up with greatest clarity.

Crimson Guard
Friday, August 1st, 2008, 09:22 PM
"Atlantid" is just another name for Mediterranean of course, besides central Europe isnt the Atlantic. Like I said they dont exist as separate race or entity, its just a misnomer or local intermediary looking type.

The Paleo-Atlantid of Lundman btw was very dark, broad nosed and course featured type, basically a just a taller version of his so-called Berids found in Southern Europe. Which should be Denikers Mixed-Western type(Alpo-Med.).

Kreis AnnA
Friday, August 1st, 2008, 09:36 PM
An Atlantid would be Irano-Nordid in CFI, which is variant from a typical Med. The frame would be Atlanto-Med. (slender, muscular, longer boning). This type is found from the Atlantic, above the Alps and Carpathians, to the Black Sea. SS soldier, who is typical CE Atlantid. The one to the left is clearly Nordid:

http://pic16.picturetrail.com/VOL654/4300182/9048062/125365556.jpg

Oswiu
Friday, August 1st, 2008, 10:24 PM
Atlantids are real! We are stable and pretty darn smart, too :)
Sounds like a good group to be in! Do you accept me, or am I merely peripheral? ;)
http://forum.stirpes.net/anthropometrics/6558-racial-classification-please.html

The Mediterranean race in Central Europe. By N.N. Cheboksarov.
Traces of Mediterraneans on the Rhine and the Danube.

Notable group variations in the principal anthropological traits are encountered within the confines of the zone where the Central-European complex prevails. Thus, the population of the western half of southern Germany – Baden, Würtemburg and western Bavaria- differs from the typical groups of the Central-European configuration of eastern Bavaria and Franconia. In a direction from east to west, here stature increases markedly (to 169-170 cm), the cephalic index drops (to 82), the face becomes longer and narrower, the percentage of dark hair and eyes rises (to 90% mixed and brown).
Is there any folklore about this in the region? Is it clear enough to the untrained eye that there's a difference here, or does the 'background noise' blur it? Do Hessians mock the physically different Alemanni and Swabians, or vice versa? (We in my town call the people in the next one 'Pie Heads' for such a perceived difference (greater predominance of Borrebies?!))

It is interesting to remark that in the Tyrol the Mediterranean type links up with heightening of the facial index and the incidence of concave dorsum of nose, while the Noric links up with chamaeprosopy and a prevalence of convex dorsum of nose. The combination of low face and convex nasal dorsum, as we have said above, is characteristic also of the south German light brachycephals of the Central-European configuration.
Any comments from our resident Tyrolians? Sigurd? Does this ring true with 'on the ground' observations?

But this kind of link likewise exists in Eastern Europe: here it is known under the name of “Eastern Great-Russian” (Chepurkovsky) or “North-Pontic” complex (Bunak), which prevails among the Russians of the Kuybyshev and Voronezh districts, and also among the Mordvi-Mokshi.
Whew, who translated this! :D
Kuybyshev is now Samara (again)! The Mordvins are referred to with an indeclinable term 'Mordva', and their western branch is named the likewise indeclinable 'Moksha'.
I have several close connections with both Mordva and Russians from this part of the world, including a Russian woman that conforms very much to the image, from Michurinsk (formerly Kozlov) in Tambov Province.

In pigmentation, stature and cephalic index the Swiss of the canton Vaud or the Austrian from the environs of Vienna strongly recalls the Russians and the Moksh of the former Penzen Government.
(Moksha again! And Penza - the translator has been confused by the adjectival form 'Penzensky'...)

Very interesting that this area should receive special mention - it always seems to have been a bit of a 'mini-refuge' or island in the midst of surrounding ethnic movements. The Burtas lived here in the early part of Our Era, Budini and so on in Herodotus's times, and now a Finnic outlying population survives. The gradated picture of European diversity has seemingly been 'smudged' elsewhere.

The Atlantic and Pontic types are as alike as the Central-European and Valdaian are alike:
Off Topic, but curious; what does he understand by 'Valdaian'? We're looking geographically at the area immediately east of Novgorod the Great, but what does he mean racially?

However, the two suppositions are not mutually exclusive; both look sufficiently plausible. Whether to accept them both together or to choose between them, must be resolved by further concrete palaeanthropological materials from those regions of Central Europe in which the Mediterranean admixture shows up with greatest clarity.
Very interesting, thanks for posting it! :)

Kreis AnnA
Friday, August 1st, 2008, 10:56 PM
Okeedokey. Much of this can be explained by previous settlement of Neolithic peoples into the areas where Germanic Tribes later settled, from Danubian farmers and herders, to the Balkan Bronze age. Typically, one would look for J2 Haplogroup, in this case Haplotype J M205, which rises to some 20 percent of the population in and around Vienna. This would be consistent with the Balkan Neolithic and the appearance of large Meds/Dinarids of general Pontic tendencies

Here are some observations made by Coon specific to the Germanic tribes and how they settled. :

The Germanic settlement of Austria, including the Tyrol, was a complicated process, involving the Alemanni, the Bajuvars, the Lombards, and the Goths. The Alemanni were the earliest, and the Bajuvars the most important. In the mountains, the Lombards settled the southern Tyrolese valleys, the Bajuvars those to the north. In the meanwhile, the Huns contributed a mongoloid element, diluted through mixture with the Gepidae. During the seventh century, the picture was further complicated by a temporary Slavic expansion which may have left human traces in certain of the Tyrolese valleys. Throughout all this turmoil, the Romanized Rhaetians still maintained their ethnic integrity in the remoter spots, as is witnessed by the survival of Ladino speech.
A study of the Austrian crania of the centuries of Germanic settlement, including for the most part those of Bajuvars, shows them to have been largely Nordic, of the usual northern type.94 A small series of special interest is that of 26 Lombard crania from two sites: from Nikitsch in the Oberpullendoff district of Burgenland, and Vinzen, near Regensburg, in Lower Austria; both dating from the fifty year interval which the Lombards spent north of the mountains before their final burst into Italy in 568 A.D.95 Eight skulls are those of the usual Germanic variety of Nordics, with some exceptionally tall- and large-skulled individuals, while five others ranging in cranial index from 77 to 93, show in their flat faces and broad nasal bones clear traces of mongoloid mixture. A single male, in the Nikitsch series, was strikingly different from the others; a short-statured Armenoid or Dinaric, with typfral brachycephalic skull, occipital flatten-ing, sloping forehead, and other Near Eastern features. He was obviously a stranger incorporated into the composite Lombard camp, either a local Dinaric or an Asiatic. In earlier times, the Roinans had stationed both Syrians and Scotchmen in the Tullnerfeld as garrisons;96 hence the ethnic heterogeneity in this region was chronic.

The Bajuvars, the ancestors of tlte Bavarians, retained the original Germanic head form in their new home, with the cranial index meaii of 75 to 76 in various series.89 (See Appendix I, col. 44.) Their stature, about 168 cm., was moderately tall, and their cranial type, in most if not all metrical and morphological features, was reminiscent of their northern ancestors; but in a few of the smaller groups an approximation to the Keltic form may be suspected. In every local series, however, the head form remains constant, and there are very few brachycephals in any of them. The ancestors of the Hessians, if we may judge by a few examples, were apparently likewise dolichocephals90 of the usual North German form.
The Alemanni may be studied by means of two principal series; a small one of twenty skeletons from Oberrotweil in Baden,91 and a large one of over two-hundred from Augst,92 in the canton of Aargau in Switzerland. The series from Baden, while retaining the usual Germanic cranial index, assumes in other respects the metrical character of the Keltic peoples whom the Alemanni succeeded, and who, as a matter of fact, possessed the same cranial index mean of 75 to 76. One must interpret this evidence from Baden as an indication that these Germanic invaders were to a large extent absorbed by previously settled Kelts, at least in the village which used this cemetery and its immediate neighborhood.
The Alemanni skulls from Switzerland are, as a group, high mesocephals with a mean of 78, and include a considerable number of brachycephalic crania. On the whole, the total series resembles that of the Keltic predecessors of the Alemanni, but the stature increased to a mean of 168 cm., and the cranial index of the entire group was gradually lowered. In the fifth century, 50 per cent of the Aargau Alemanni were brachycephalic, in the seventh century, 44 per cent, and in the eighth, 24 per cent. Coincidentally, the mean cranial index was reduced over this three hundred year span from 80.2 to 77.5. Thus the Germanic element, or perhaps a Germanic-Keltic blend, increased at the expense of the earlier population, and this increase was, as we shall see later, destined to become, in parts of Switzerland, permanent.

The Thuringians, who are known to us through a series from the Saale Valley in Germany, and through others from several sites in Bohemia,93 practiced the unusual custom, for Germans, of deforming the head by annular constriction. Enough undeformed crania are left, however, for one to determine their racial type. The Thuringians were purely dolichocephalic. In none of these groups has a single round-headed skull been found. The skulls are, in fact, longer headed than the normal Anglo-Saxon and Hanoverian basic type and bear certain resemblances to the original Iron Age Danish group, and, at the same time, to the Hallstatt crania of the same region in which they are found. One may state definitely they are not of Keltic type, and these people had apparently not mixed to any extent with the Boii who had preceded them and from whom Bohemia derived its name. Like the Boii, however, the Thuringians were not destined to remain long on Bohemian soil, for this fertile plain which had been subjected to constant farming since the beginning of the Danubian Neolithic was soon to be taken permanently by the Slavs in the early period of their great expansion.

bdm
Saturday, August 2nd, 2008, 12:18 AM
Again man, just some simple answers about where this Atlantid or Alanto-Med, or whatever else you want to call it, is most pure and where, specifically, it is strongest and most predominant in the local population.

Have you noticed how nobody has answered this very simple and direct question?

Oswiu
Saturday, August 2nd, 2008, 12:23 AM
Again man, just some simple answers about where this Atlantid or Alanto-Med, or whatever else you want to call it, is most pure and where, specifically, it is strongest and most predominant in the local population.

Have you noticed how nobody has answered this very simple and direct question?

To answer it, we would have to have travelled the length and breadth of the western part of our continent, conducted detailed ascertations of the frequencies of various anthropological types in every tiny region of every country.

I doubt anyone here can answer your question! Why do you ask it, though?

bdm
Saturday, August 2nd, 2008, 12:44 AM
To answer it, we would have to have travelled the length and breadth of the western part of our continent, conducted detailed ascertations of the frequencies of various anthropological types in every tiny region of every country.

I doubt anyone here can answer your question! Why do you ask it, though?



Alright, forget about imperical data. From your own travels, what you've read, what you've heard, whatever, where is this elemen the strongest?

Why do I want to know? Because I have a passion for the women of this element. It's that simple

Cythraul
Saturday, August 2nd, 2008, 12:52 AM
How specific do you want to be? It clearly predominates in Western Europe (the name being a giveaway). If we're taking the 'Atlantid' is distinguishable from the 'Atlanto-Med' then Spain and Portugal won't be where the type occurs most. So I'd suggest Britain, France and possibly Belgium and Holland. The Celtic fringes of Britain are the least blonde so I'd suggest those, as well as France. I doubt you can get much more specific than that without a dedicated survey.

I'm not an expert so this is all by method-of-deduction and supported by my own casual observations.

Oswiu
Saturday, August 2nd, 2008, 12:56 AM
Alright, forget about imperical data. From your own travels, what you've read, what you've heard, whatever, where is this elemen the strongest?

Why do I want to know? Because I have a passion for the women of this element. It's that simple

You rogue! :D

I doubt there are any real concentrations as such, they're just scattered about. Try County Louth where the Corrs come from... :p

Cythraul
Saturday, August 2nd, 2008, 12:56 PM
Try County Louth where the Corrs come from... :p
Ah but do only the blue-eyed ones count ;)? People seem quite particular about this point.

http://darvo.nl/Corr/images/the_corrs_1.jpg

</sarcasm>

bdm
Tuesday, August 5th, 2008, 09:33 PM
How about a good guestimate as to where specifically on the planet would we find the Atlanto types most apparent and plentiful within the living population today.:D

Just a guess would even be fine, so ong as you are somewhat specific and don't say something broad and over encompassing like "Ireland" or "Wales." Again, a little more detail as far as where. Thanks.

bdm
Tuesday, August 5th, 2008, 09:36 PM
Eitherway, we are getting wrapped up in semantics here. I'm sure we all agree there is a certain sub-strata, or whatever else you may choose to call it, of the human species in Europe thatis distinguished because of the following simmilar features:

-They are relatively tall and somewhat lean, but not excessively fine boned.
-Their facial counterance is not terribly angular, but they are lean faced with smooth, chisled and symetrical features.
-They are mesocephalic to dolicephalic in head measurements.
-The hair colouring tends to range from very dark brown to jet black and it is often deeply waved or curly.
-The eyes are almost universally light ranging from grey to green to vivd blue.
-While fair in complexion compared to most southern Europeans they do have an ability to tan under sunlight and will often posess very smooth, even-toned, bronzed skin colouring. Skinand hair may be slightly more oily in texture compared to most other northern Europeans.

Do we agree?

Again, the text above is a pretty accurate desription of the subrace I'm talking about.:D

OneEnglishNorman
Tuesday, August 5th, 2008, 10:34 PM
Eitherway, we are getting wrapped up in semantics here. I'm sure we all agree there is a certain sub-strata, or whatever else you may choose to call it, of the human species in Europe thatis distinguished because of the following simmilar features:

-They are relatively tall and somewhat lean, but not excessively fine boned.
-Their facial counterance is not terribly angular, but they are lean faced with smooth, chisled and symetrical features.
-They are mesocephalic to dolicephalic in head measurements.
-The hair colouring tends to range from very dark brown to jet black and it is often deeply waved or curly.
-The eyes are almost universally light ranging from grey to green to vivd blue.
-While fair in complexion compared to most southern Europeans they do have an ability to tan under sunlight and will often posess very smooth, even-toned, bronzed skin colouring. Skinand hair may be slightly more oily in texture compared to most other northern Europeans.

Do we agree?

Pure "types" are rare as it is. Probably the closest in the Isles we get to a consistently common look is in Western Ireland with Coon's Irish Bruenn.

Lundman's Paleo-Atlantid is likely the same as Coon's Bruenn.

Lundman's North-Atlantid is likely the same as Coon's Keltic Nordic.

In 2008 on anthro fora these terms now are a little different.



How about a good guestimate as to where specifically on the planet would we find the Atlanto types most apparent and plentiful within the living population today.:D


Just a guess would even be fine, so ong as you are somewhat specific and don't say something broad and over encompassing like "Ireland" or "Wales." Again, a little more detail as far as where. Thanks.You can use your own initiative and dig out some charts from folk like Coon, Lundman and Beddoe. Find where dark hair and light eyes is common, and take it from there. I don't know what you expect from people here on the forum, unless one is extremely well-travelled, we're all dependent on the same sources.

As Flash Voyager said, people with Mediterranean frames and facial features can be found in coastal areas towards the West. It's easier to sail by boat from the Black Sea and Meditteranean than to cross Continental Europe by foot and settle in the Isles that way. This is how Armenoid features arrived in Cornwall and elsewhere.