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varangian_guard
Monday, July 28th, 2008, 11:58 PM
Canada and Australia are extremely similar, but it seems to be that their relationship is rather distant, when compared with the US-UK relationship.


Demographics of both nations are similar. Both are rather populous nations settled largely by people from the British Isles within the British commonwealth. Both nations have extremely large, very cosmopolitan cities that are well known internationally. Both nations suffered much more than than their share of casualties in WWI and WWII within the commonwealth. Australia or Canada (or NZ) is usually at the front of list in terms of suffering casualties relative to their population. (Also both nations are currently being inundated by Chinese and Indians). But it seems to me that is where the similarities end.

Canada seems to be a much more progressive and liberal nation than Australia (although not under this current administration). If I could use the analogy of American states, Canada is like Massachussetts, where Australia reminds me of Texas. Australia seems to be more active in the world stage, playing a police power in SE asia, where Canada usually plays a secondary role to the US in international affairs.

Also it seems to me that relations between Canada and Australia is like that between any two nations. There is no "special relationship," as Winston Churchill described the relations between US and UK, even though both nations have almost identical demographic backgrounds. Canadians don't seem to think too much of Australia, and the same is probably the other way around (although I've been to Australia, so Australians here can correct me on this). Is this estrangement (seems moreso on the Canadian side) due to political differences?

Or do Australians see Canadians as too tainted by the Francophone influence?:D

Ămeric
Tuesday, July 29th, 2008, 12:31 AM
Canada shares a border with the US - the longest undefended border in the world. Most Canadians live within a 2 or 3 hour drive of the US border. Besides the Quebec situtation, Canadians elites are obsessed about being different from Americans. There really isn't much of an Canadian identity, just Quebecois & everyone else. Frankly the only reason I can think of as to why Anglophonic Canada shouldn't become the 51st state is that they would probably vote for Barack Obama for president - as a whole Canada really is like Massachusetts with perhaps the exception of Alberta. Australians on the other hand are on the otherside of the world from both England & America. This has allowed Australians to form a distinct & "cool" identity in the US, generally based upon it's beach culture & the mythos of the outback. Canadians are often mistaken for Americans, Australians are not.

OneEnglishNorman
Tuesday, July 29th, 2008, 05:06 PM
Well, the UK does not have any more of a relationship with Canada (individiual people, cultural, governmental, sporting levels) than it does the USA.

So it would not surprise me if Canada and Australia are distant to each other.

UK shares current migration (Brits over there, Aussies over here) with Australia & NZ, also all kinds of sporting interests. None of that is true for Canada.

alexGerman
Wednesday, July 30th, 2008, 09:37 AM
You are right to exclude Alberta from the rest of Canada. Belive me, we dont appreciate the fact that the whole of Canada has been continually holding Alberta back for the past 5 decades. Billions of dollars in transfer payments when we could use the money at home breeds and certain level of discontent.

I think Canadians and Aussies are quite the same, and we get along quite well. Im for a Canadian/ Aussie union. We can call it Caustralada!

Oswiu
Thursday, July 31st, 2008, 03:31 PM
Well, the UK does not have any more of a relationship with Canada (individiual people, cultural, governmental, sporting levels) than it does the USA.

So it would not surprise me if Canada and Australia are distant to each other.

UK shares current migration (Brits over there, Aussies over here) with Australia & NZ, also all kinds of sporting interests. None of that is true for Canada.

Why do you say that, exactly? Perhaps the numbers for Australia are higher (though not among my acquaintances), but the link of real human beings is substantial enough to have made some imprint on my own family and neighbours. I've often heard people talk about their relatives over in Canada, down the years. I've not thought about it before, but I think the cases outnumber those for Australia. The other day I had my hair cut by a woman who is planning to take her family to Vancouver Island, and who has a friend already out there. Perhaps this is a regional matter, with Southerners being more ready to go South, and Northwesterners to go Northwest? :D

And what of our Freydis even?!?

As for the distance between Canada and Australia, well, if there is something to be discussed there, then it's the result of having only a parent country in common, and little sibling commonality, having been 'brought up' in a very different environment, with different neighbours (or lack thereof).

Ămeric
Thursday, July 31st, 2008, 04:21 PM
As for the distance between Canada and Australia, well, if there is something to be discussed there, then it's the result of having only a parent country in common, and little sibling commonality, having been 'brought up' in a very different environment, with different neighbours (or lack thereof).


By enviroment do you include climate? Don't know how I could have overlooked that one. The southern most part of Canada is wedged in between Michigan & New York with much of the country covered with tundra. Much of Australia is in the tropical latitudes. The climate would account for major differences in lifestyle & attitude between Canada & Australia.

Svartljos
Tuesday, August 5th, 2008, 08:40 AM
Canada shares a border with the US - the longest undefended border in the world. Most Canadians live within a 2 or 3 hour drive of the US border. Besides the Quebec situtation, Canadians elites are obsessed about being different from Americans. There really isn't much of an Canadian identity, just Quebecois & everyone else...

Hm well, while I agree for the most part, that Canadians are for the most part similar to those in the Northern and Western US, I do think there is at least one strong regional Anglo-identity: Newfoundland has a pretty distinct culture (I should know, as I live there half the year) and even a distinct accent/dialect from the rest of Canada, although many of them would not consider themselves a part of Canada.

However, with every successive generation, Newfoundlanders seem ever more like their mainland counterparts.

J÷rmungandr
Wednesday, August 6th, 2008, 01:28 AM
I like Canada and would like to go there, if not live there some day. I like it because from what I know of it it IS similar to Australia yet it is like the United States in a way too. It is a beautiful country, the wilderness is amazing.

varangian_guard
Wednesday, November 5th, 2008, 09:17 AM
yes, the canadian rockies offers perhaps an unparalleled view of alpine and glacial scenery, dotted with high altitude lakes and unblemished by logging and other industries have pockmarked many a beautiful natural places in the US.

perhaps the only thing that differs between Canada and Australia, is that Canada is much prettier!

Angelcynn Beorn
Monday, November 24th, 2008, 11:00 PM
From my understanding of the demographics, Canada is a lot less British in blood than Australia is, and receives a much smaller immigration intake from Britain every year than Australia and NZ do.

Aemma
Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 12:35 AM
By enviroment do you include climate? Don't know how I could have overlooked that one. The southern most part of Canada is wedged in between Michigan & New York with much of the country covered with tundra. Much of Australia is in the tropical latitudes. The climate would account for major differences in lifestyle & attitude between Canada & Australia.

Oh goodness Ămeric! Have you not consulted a top map of my country lately? Tundra??? Uhmmm, we have the Rockies (yes we do share the same chain), our own Prairies (yes same plains as your Mid-West), the Great Canadian Shield (beautiful rock and forest) similar to what you'd find in New England, an amazing moraine in south western Ontario, several gorgeous escarpments (Niagara Falls and Montmorency Falls being two of them that I can think of offhand...oh and Capsilano, too), we have the amazing maritimes, again similar to your own New England coast and the Appalachians run clear up this way too!

We grow peaches in southern Ontario and grapes to make our world-famous ice wine; we grow wheat and canola in our prairies; we grow trees in abundance, something your lumber industry would miss incredibly I dare say! Alberta beef is some of the best beef in the world. We grow all manner of produce in our Okanagan Valley and other parts of BC, our Niagara Peninsula and other parts of Ontario, in Quebec, in the Maritimes. Our Maple Syrup is actually second to none. Yes indeed...all of this from tundra. By golly...better buy up some of this good tundra soon before word gets out that it is actually valuable land! :D

No offense Ămeric, but I think you need to travel Canada a bit more before you start telling people that we all live in igloos here too.

Frith...Aemma

Ămeric
Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 02:20 AM
I have been to Canada several times. And I can't help but notice that most Canadians are clustered along the US border - and I don't mean the Alaska border. Much of Canada just isn't hospitable from a climatic viewpoint.


http://www.craigmarlatt.com/canada/images/images&downloads/map_climate.jpg

The tundra (artic) area of Canada covers a greater area then the populated parts of the country along the border. The greater part of the country is taiga (boreal) which is not suitable to largescale human habitation.


http://geodepot.statcan.ca/Diss2006/Reference/Freepub/92-159-GWE/2006001/figures/change_pop_01_06_eng.jpg

This map showing population density shows that most of Canada is sparcely populated.

Aemma
Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 03:39 AM
I have been to Canada several times. And I can't help but notice that most Canadians are clustered along the US border - and I don't mean the Alaska border. Much of Canada just isn't hospitable from a climatic viewpoint.


http://www.craigmarlatt.com/canada/images/images&downloads/map_climate.jpg

The tundra (artic) area of Canada covers a greater area then the populated parts of the country along the border. The greater part of the country is taiga (boreal) which is not suitable to largescale human habitation.


http://geodepot.statcan.ca/Diss2006/Reference/Freepub/92-159-GWE/2006001/figures/change_pop_01_06_eng.jpg

This map showing population density shows that most of Canada is sparcely populated.


Nice maps and such but, be that as it may Ămeric, I took issue with your comment "with much of the country covered in tundra". This is what I refuted as false...and that comment still is false. I think a topographical map might have served us all a bit better but taking one of the maps you've provided, the climactic one, even the green part representing the 'boreal' aspect far outweighs the blue aspect representing the arctic. Boreal does not in this case equate to tundra.

And as for the term "taiga" being used, uh sorry but that term is not correct either in relation to the greater part of Canada's boreal region. Gee, even your own Michigan (as would be Northern Minnesota, Upstate New York, New Hampshire, and Maine) is considered to be part of this "taiga biome" (if you insist on keeping this nomenclature). Are you really telling me that Detroit Michigan, one of your largest urban centres is sparsely populated precisely because of this 'inhospitable' region? Nahh I didn't think that's what you were saying. ;)

Yes our population patterns *seem to be* very different than yours. We do have a tendency to settle along the Canadian-US border because people go as the water flows generally...look at the St. Lawrence River Basin and our shared Great Lakes. Historically, my countryfolk have settled near water since it facilitated transportation from the earliest of times. This is common to all places/countries really once you examine settlement patterns carefully. Your settlement patterns show this as well, to wit, the beautiful Big Apple, the Windy City, Motortown itself...the list goes on.

Oh and please please please Ămeric, I surely hope you don't mean that you've been only to Toronto when you state "I have been to Canada many times." It would be like me saying I have been to the U.S. many times and what I really meant was that I've been to Watertown NY mainly for the cross-border shopping. Toronto hardly constitutes the entirety of 'Canada' for most Canadians, except in the eyes of a Torontonian of course! :D

So out of sheer friendly curiosity though I'm dying to know, what parts of my beautiful country have you visited?

Frith...Aemma (the unabashedly proud Canadian)

Aemma
Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 04:12 AM
Well, the UK does not have any more of a relationship with Canada (individiual people, cultural, governmental, sporting levels) than it does the USA.

With respect, I do beg to differ OneEnglishNorman. Up until Canada repatriated its Constitution in 1982 via the Canada Act which was an act of British Parliament no less that which made us a nation with Confederation of 1867 was a British Law called The British North America Act. That's right. We've only technically been *our own country* for the past 26 years! The apron strings were only cut a short while ago in reality. I'm not sure how old you are, but if you're as young as I think you are (not a slam just an observation btw), this piece of Canadian and British history might not quite have registered with you. And in the end, why would it if this was 'before your time'? I wouldn't even expect such to be on anybody's radar to be quite honest.

Thus I do need to point out to you that Canada has far more in common with the UK than it does its cousin to the south, oftentimes. Did you know that we share the same head of state? Yes the Queen is ours as well though represented by the Governor General, Mme Michaele Jean. Did you know that Queen Elizabeth's face graces all of our currency? Did you know that "God Save the Queen" is still a song that is played at the end of a Canadian television channel's broadcasting day (though one is really hard-pressed to see this these days due to the deluge of infomercials that pollute the airwaves at this time of day)? Did you know that save for the Province of Quebec and the Territory of Nunavut, all of our provinces and territories have adopted the British parliamentary system as the political system in Canada? (FYI, Quebec has maintained a French legislative assembly tradition, while Nunavut operates on a consensual governmental basis). This is but a mere smattering... but make no mistake, there are still many things that tie us to the motherland.


But coming back to the original post...we're two different countries separated by time and space and then some. The foundings of our nations are entirely different as well. Is there a relationship between Canada and Australia? Well, Oswiu pretty much hit the nail on the head, 'a common parentage' (to some degree) but I would even add an element of a relationship something akin to "my mother's third cousin twice removed" type of thing.

It's interesting though how the Royal family has had an impact on how Canada and Australia are viewed, well speaking as a Canadian at any rate. Apparently Prince Charles has always had a soft spot for Australia while Prince Andrew has always had a soft spot for Canada. (Heck, Prince Andrew even spent his formative years here as a youth attending one of our prestigious boarding schools near Toronto!) I really wonder how different we would be perceived were affinities reversed. Might not make a hill of beans in the end....but it's always fun to speculate.

Frith...Aemma

Ămeric
Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 04:46 AM
And as for the term "taiga" being used, uh sorry but that term is not correct either in relation to the greater part of Canada's boreal region. Gee, even your own Michigan (as would be Northern Minnesota, Upstate New York, New Hampshire, and Maine) is considered to be part of this "taiga biome" (if you insist on keeping this nomenclature). Are you really telling me that Detroit Michigan, one of your largest urban centres is sparsely populated precisely because of this 'inhospitable' region? Nahh I didn't think that's what you were saying. ;)


http://www.coffeeforthebirds.com/images/boreal_map.gif

I don't think Detroit counts as part of the boreal zone.


Yes our population patterns *seem to be* very different than yours. We do have a tendency to settle along the Canadian-US border because people go as the water flows generally...look at the St. Lawrence River Basin and our shared Great Lakes. Historically, my countryfolk have settled near water since it facilitated transportation from the earliest of times. This is common to all places/countries really once you examine settlement patterns carefully. Your settlement patterns show this as well, to wit, the beautiful Big Apple, the Windy City, Motortown itself...the list goes on.I guess that explains the large metropolises clustered around Hudson Bay.;)


Oh and please please please Ămeric, I surely hope you don't mean that you've been only to Toronto when you state "I have been to Canada many times." It would be like me saying I have been to the U.S. many times and what I really meant was that I've been to Watertown NY mainly for the cross-border shopping. Toronto hardly constitutes the entirety of 'Canada' for most Canadians, except in the eyes of a Torontonian of course! :D About 40% of all Canadians are concentrated in that part of southern Ontario that juts down between Michigan & New York. So southern Ontario, which is dominated by Toronto, may not constitute the entirety of Canada but it does contain nearly 1/2 of all Canadians.


So out of sheer friendly curiosity though I'm dying to know, what parts of my beautiful country have you visited?

Frith...Aemma (the unabashedly proud Canadian)


Besides Toronto I've been to British Columbia & Alberta. And all of Ontario from Ottawa to Windsor to Niagara.

Aemma
Tuesday, November 25th, 2008, 01:22 PM
I don't think Detroit counts as part of the boreal zone.

Well it depends which sources you look up. Just a simple wikipedia search on the word 'taiga' brings you to that which I told you about parts of your own country being within this biome.


I guess that explains the large metropolises clustered around Hudson Bay.;)

TouchÚ my good man. TouchÚ! But we also know that people tend to settle in groups and tend to follow the herd. Hudson's Bay isn't exactly an easy spot to get to either....the St. Lawrence River Basin is however. So goes the easier flow of water, so go the people.



Besides Toronto I've been to British Columbia & Alberta. And all of Ontario from Ottawa to Windsor to Niagara.

Ahh great! :) Well for the benefit of other fine folk here that may never have come to Canada, much less to the Province of Ontario, I would just add that the Ottawa-Windsor Corridor is but one small part of Ontario when you're looking at land mass. Ontario is huge. Canada is huge. Most people don't ever have a good fix as to just how big of a land mass Canada truly is.

Cheers Ămeric!

Frith...Aemma