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Vista
Thursday, July 24th, 2008, 10:22 AM
The status of Swedish minority is unparellaled in global context, Swedes in Finland not only live longer and die happier (Hyyppä & Mäki, 2001) but also earn more money and at top of the enjoys affirmitive action in regards to university admissions.


Here´s a nice article of the Germanic enclave in Finland.



Source:

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/12/25/news/finland.php


Finland, a Battle of tongues.

EKENAS, Finland: In most parts of the world, language is usually a fiery and divisive issue, one that pits the powerless against the powerful, the small against the big.

The Basques battle the Spanish. The Flemish tussle with the Walloons. The Québécois scuffle with the rest of Canada.

But Finland, a country with an unshakable sense of fair play, offers a counterbalance to that sort of acrimony. If anything, Finland bends over backward, with little dissent and at great cost, to make its 260,000 Swedish speakers feel comfortable.

No sooner did Finland win its independence from Russia in 1917 than it ensured in its Constitution that Swedish speakers, who still controlled much of Finland, would be granted equal rights culturally, educationally and socially. It was a gesture of comity and pragmatism that overlooked the fact that for five centuries Sweden had controlled Finland and scorned the Finnish language, which the Swedes deemed mysterious and second-class.

The result of that constitutional mandate, few would disagree, is that Finland is home to the world's most pampered minority group, the endangered Swedish-speaking Finn. Even as their numbers and influence dwindle - from a high of 14 percent of the population in 1880 to 5 percent today - their rights, for the most part, continue to flourish.

"We have it very good here," concedes Henrik Creutz, a Swedish-speaking Finn and a board member of the Swedish People's Party, who is quick to note that almost all Swedish speakers also speak Finnish, most of them very well. "There are lots of language minorities in Europe, but they don't have a lot of power."

Finland has two official languages, Swedish and Finnish. One language takes precedence over the other, depending on how many of the people living in a given community speak Finnish or Swedish as their mother tongue. Mostly, the country is made up of Finnish-language communities; only about 4 percent of the 432 Finnish communities are considered Swedish only.

Another 10 percent are bilingual, 21 of them with a Finnish-language majority and 23 of them with a Swedish-language majority, like Ekenas, a coastal jewel of 14,500 residents.

Wander the streets, cafés, marinas, schools, health centers and government buildings of Ekenas, and the chitchat is all Swedish - actually a dialect of Swedish. More than 80 percent of the residents in Ekenas speak Swedish. As in all other bilingual communities, the government offers Swedish speakers their own schools, day care centers, health care centers, local government councils, newspapers and television and radio shows. Signs are all written in Swedish at the top, Finnish at the bottom.

Swedish speakers also have their own political party in the Finnish government and a host of cultural institutions. Walk into a courthouse, a women's shelter, a nursing home or a government office in any bilingual community, and Swedish speakers, by law, must be served in Swedish, if they request it. A 2004 law requires it. All documents and brochures must be translated into Swedish.

Finland even has a kind of reverse system of quotas and affirmative action for Swedish speakers at the university level; reverse because Swedish speakers tend to be wealthier - Swedish speakers control many of the major industries - and healthier than Finnish speakers.

Swedish speakers have their own Swedish-language business school and their own quotas to study medicine and law at the University of Helsinki. For example, of the 230 laws students at University of Helsinki, at least 18 must be Swedish speakers.

On this point, at least, some Finnish speakers begin to grumble, arguing that Swedish speakers have an easier time getting into these fiercely competitive schools because of the quotas. Swedish speakers disagree: They maintain that without the quotas, Finland would be unable to abide by the law and produce the doctors, lawyers and business people to serve the Swedish-speaking population.

While the idea of peeling back the Swedish speakers' broad rights is almost unthinkable in Finland, a growing number of Finns are beginning to question, or at least complain about, other parts of the historic language law as well.

Heikki Tala, the chairman of the Finnish Alliance, which is fighting to make Finnish the sole official language of Finland, characterizes the status quo as a vestige of a bygone era. Finnish deference to it, he added, is a hangover from Finnish country-bumpkin days.

"There is still a feeling that Swedish speakers are the civilized ones and we are the peasants," Tala said.

Most upsetting to Finns is the fact that they are required to take Swedish in school. Last spring, irate Finnish-speaking students struck a first blow at the Swedish-language requirement, when the government, despite aggressive lobbying from powerful Swedish speakers, agreed to drop Swedish from the difficult matriculation exam that leads to university admissions.

Riita Uosukainen, a former speaker of the Finnish Parliament, argues that some laws simply go overboard. "People in Finland don't want to take rights away from Swedish speakers," she said. "It's in our Constitution. We are proud of it. But Finnish speakers don't want to be told that they must learn Swedish. Finnish people also have rights."

Leof
Thursday, July 24th, 2008, 02:24 PM
Haha, notice that they call swedes, "swedish speakers" and finns just finns. This new mandate in the mulicult that race doesn't exist is so hoakey I can't believe the media is actually taking them serious.

This is a decent article. The act that the Swedish population here is reminded constantly of their minority status against a society with a strong cutural identity puts the Swedish population here in a situation where they are obliged to identify with their swedish background and identity. These same swedes who battle for their own rites to have the swedish language in all facilities would be on the opposite side of the subject if they were born and raised in liberal Sweden.

Vista
Thursday, July 24th, 2008, 02:43 PM
Haha, notice that they call swedes, "swedish speakers" and finns just finns. This new mandate in the mulicult that race doesn't exist is so hoakey I can't believe the media is actually taking them serious.

This is a decent article. The act that the Swedish population here is reminded constantly of their minority status against a society with a strong cutural identity puts the Swedish population here in a situation where they are obliged to identify with their swedish background and identity. These same swedes who battle for their own rites to have the swedish language in all facilities would be on the opposite side of the subject if they were born and raised in liberal Sweden.

Actually, I agree,

the minority status have created very strong self-awareness for the Swedish minority especially in rural regions where the linguistic boundary has been traditionally very strict and intermingling very little.

I remember few years ago when one (Finland-) Swedish activist claimed that there are more than language which seperates Finns and Swedes in Finland, this caused a great fury among Finns and surprisingly also among many "liberal" Finland-Swedes, especially among those Swedes in Finlands cultural elite. The most prestiguous Swedish institutions in the country do not want to hurt the feelings of Finns and thus they´ve even proposed an official title for the Swedish minority in Finland, the "Swedish-speaking Finn". ;)

Anyway, I remember someone having a thread "Germans in Belgium, the nest protected minority", compared to Swedes in Finland, their status is a joke.

Aragorn
Thursday, July 24th, 2008, 03:35 PM
Wouldn't it not be best when the Swedish minority receive Autonomous status, something like an autonomous Swedish region?

Loddfafner
Thursday, July 24th, 2008, 04:17 PM
Wouldn't it not be best when the Swedish minority receive Autonomous status, something like an autonomous Swedish region?

Don't they already have one? I'm thinking of the Aland Islands.

Aland is like the Faroes as an issuer of distinctive postage stamps, including a series on tattoos - one was vaguely runic and another was of an actual 'tramp stamp'.

Leof
Thursday, July 24th, 2008, 04:17 PM
Wouldn't it not be best when the Swedish minority receive Autonomous status, something like an autonomous Swedish region?

That's an idea but I don't think it would work too well. The Swedes are concentrated around the southern and western tips of Finland in a gradient that go's for nearly all swedes to a 50/50 segregated community so it would be difficult to establish a sort of national border. You have the right idea I feel though. I think the Finns should have the option of taking swedish in school but not be required and that the Swedes can continue to retain their Swedish languistics and heritage despite being minorities in a finnic region.

Gefjon
Thursday, July 24th, 2008, 04:31 PM
Maybe the "Finlandswedes" should take a test too, I heard they ain't Swedish ethnically, only linguistically. ;)

Leo
Thursday, July 24th, 2008, 06:33 PM
Maybe the "Finlandswedes" should take a test too, I heard they ain't Swedish ethnically, only linguistically. ;)

No. They are ethnic Swedes to my knowledge. One substantial emigration of Swedes to Finland happened in the middle-ages.

I have heard that historically, Social life where segregated but things have changed somewhat in modern times? Some of the Finnish on Althing should give more content answer.

Angelcynn Beorn
Thursday, July 24th, 2008, 11:39 PM
It's an interesting contrast to see how the Swedes are perceived in their former Baltic colony of Finland, to how the Russians are perceived in their former Baltic provinces in Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia.

Hanna
Friday, July 25th, 2008, 11:05 AM
What's the whole point of this thread? There's lots of Finnish -Swedes living in Sweden? I don't see what's the fuss about it. Aren't the Finish-Swedes getting the same privileges too? Big deal!

Matthieu Borg
Friday, July 25th, 2008, 05:15 PM
Maybe the "Finlandswedes" should take a test too, I heard they ain't Swedish ethnically, only linguistically. ;)

The majority of Fennoswedes are descendents from Central-Swedish settlers, particularly from Hälsingland .

anarchy
Friday, July 25th, 2008, 05:36 PM
Maybe the "Finlandswedes" should take a test too, I heard they ain't Swedish ethnically, only linguistically. ;)

Dear Fallen Angel,

what on earth makes you think Swedes in Finland have not been tested?
Infact Finland-Swedes were tested just few months ago in a first genome wide SNP-marker scan ever conducted to them. Here´s the results:

"Clear East-West duality was observed when when the Finnish individuals were clustering using Geneland. Individuals from the Swedish-speaking part of Ostrobotnia clustered with Sweden when a joint analysis was performed on Swedish and Finnish autosomal genotypes".

Ulf Hannelius, 2008 "Population genetic association and Zygosity testing on preamplified Dna".(Karolinska Institutet).

This sample of Finland-Swedes was done to Ostrobotnians (West-Coast) who represents 50% of all Swedes in Finland. Rest of them will be screened very soon. Yes, the Swedes in Finland are etnic-Swedes, whether they like or not.

In fact this study was interesting because it shows that Finland is a country of two languages and two folk. The Swedes here do not genetically cluster with Finns, but Swedes., not really a rocket science to figure that out. I am not Swedish but I think Swedish people in Finland are worth preserving. Otherwise I would post on a Germanic forum.

I´d like also warn you that you are likely to hear all sorts of dubious things in online discussions. I recently heard that Swedes are not white, but mongoloids. My advice to you is that whenever you hear a claim which really is not based on mainstream history ask a source, the more recent the better. Usually these people claiming weird stuff are gone by then, when asked sources that is. BTW I just try to figure out whether your remark is insulting to Swedes or Finns. Are you suggesting that Finns would have been some traitors who would have just say good bye to their indegious culture and language by becoming Swedes? Obvously many Finland-Swedes consider themselves as Finnish, however to say they are not etnic-Swedes would be intellectually pretty dishonoust.

@Leo,

you are about right,

since the times Church´s track record on people, there´s extremely little indication of intermixed marriages between Finns and Swedes in Finland. The Swedish minority must have developed very high self-awareness and strong identity, because the lack of intermingling is actually pretty surprising. In Sweden the Eastern Finnish svedjefinnar melted to Swedish population in a very short peried of time. However, this has somewhat changed in Finland, the intermarriages between the language groups are in increase, you can observe that easily when looking marriages announcements in Swedish newspapers here. Language changes have happened and every population have absorded "foreign" elements to some degree, modern genetics are good tool to figure out how much "foreign" stuff has been attained.

@Angelcynn.

Finland was never a Swedish colony, it was fully consolidated part of Sweden, and referred as "Österland", one of the four provinces of Sweden. The Sveas and Götas annexed both Norrland and areas today known as Finland in their new kingdom which was to be called Sweden. Österlanders, Svealander, Götalanders and Norrlanders all ahd equal privilegies and responsibilities no matter what language you happened to speak.

anarchy
Friday, July 25th, 2008, 05:44 PM
The majority of Fennoswedes are descendents from Central-Swedish settlers, particularly from Hälsingland .


Don´t ask where the name Helsingfors comes from :p

Blod og Jord
Thursday, November 5th, 2009, 05:41 AM
Some information about Finland-Swede personalities:

An essay called Finland-Swede writers and artists (http://www.carlonordling.se/finlandssvenskar/1.html) - lists Swedes who have distinguished themselves in literature and art, making a distinction between Finland-Swedes and Swedes from Sweden. For practical reasons this survey is limited to persons who were active in the 19th century.

Another essay called Finland-Swede military men and civil servants (http://www.carlonordling.se/finlandssvenskar/2.html) deals with prominent persons throughout the centuries, excluding only those born in the 20th century. In the case of military men it was found relevant to make some comparisons between Finland-Swedes and Russians.

The third essay is called Finland-Swede scientists (http://www.carlonordling.se/finlandssvenskar/3.html) and does not need any further introduction.

Found here:
http://www.carlonordling.se/finlandssvenskar/intro.html

NormanRollo
Tuesday, November 10th, 2009, 05:23 PM
Dear Fallen Angel,

what on earth makes you think Swedes in Finland have not been tested?
Infact Finland-Swedes were tested just few months ago in a first genome wide SNP-marker scan ever conducted to them. Here´s the results:

"Clear East-West duality was observed when when the Finnish individuals were clustering using Geneland. Individuals from the Swedish-speaking part of Ostrobotnia clustered with Sweden when a joint analysis was performed on Swedish and Finnish autosomal genotypes".

Ulf Hannelius, 2008 "Population genetic association and Zygosity testing on preamplified Dna".(Karolinska Institutet).

This sample of Finland-Swedes was done to Ostrobotnians (West-Coast) who represents 50% of all Swedes in Finland. Rest of them will be screened very soon. Yes, the Swedes in Finland are etnic-Swedes, whether they like or not.

In fact this study was interesting because it shows that Finland is a country of two languages and two folk. The Swedes here do not genetically cluster with Finns, but Swedes., not really a rocket science to figure that out. I am not Swedish but I think Swedish people in Finland are worth preserving. Otherwise I would post on a Germanic forum.



Thanks for the info. Without wanting to annoy you, I had also heard that some Swedish-speaking Finns were actually ethnically Finns, because back in the day the Swedish influence had encouraged some noble or rich Finns to adopt the Swedish language.
But genetic evidence doesn't lie I guess ;)

olavnorsk
Saturday, November 28th, 2009, 02:50 AM
Without wanting to annoy you, I had also heard that some Swedish-speaking Finns were actually ethnically Finns, because back in the day the Swedish influence had encouraged some noble or rich Finns to adopt the Swedish language.

This is correct as well. A number of Finns have adopted the Swedish language (as it was the language of the upper class), but with the rise of Finnish nationalism in the late 19th and first part of the 20th century, many of them abanoned Swedish as their primary language and changed their names from Swedish ones to Finnish ones for nationalistic reasons. There also obviously has been some intermarriage during the course of the last millennium. Still, the Swedes in Finland are originally descendants of people from Sweden, although it has absorbed some Finns (much like the Germans absorbed the Baltic Old Prussian people and quite a large number of Slavic people as well).

Hauke Haien
Saturday, November 28th, 2009, 08:59 AM
Still, the Swedes in Finland are originally descendants of people from Sweden, although it has absorbed some Finns (much like the Germans absorbed the Baltic Old Prussian people
I think that is a very good comparison, since the Prussian "Lithuanians" were largely relabeled Old Prussians and continued to exist as loyal subjects of the Prussian-German states. Assimilation into the German ethnicity was predominantly a consequence of social climbing, for example through success in the German towns. Despite this, the groups remained distinguishable until the end, when the expulsion terminated their existence.

Nevertheless, I think the Germanic colonisation of the Eastern Baltic Sea region, carried out by Swedish, Danish and German/Dutch efforts, was well worth trying and there is hope that we might return in the future.

What perplexes me, though, is how the Swedish and wider Scandinavian view of Finns has changed to accepting and including them as Finns. What is that about?

Finnish Swede
Saturday, January 6th, 2018, 01:04 PM
Welcome here, MindnightSun. :)

It's good to see a user of Finlandswede heritage, I think we've not had a user of your background for quite a while. It would be interesting to learn more about the Finnish Swedes and their community in Finland. On Skadi we've a strong chapter for peoples from the Germanic diaspora and enclaves. :)

Would you say you identify as more Swedish or more as Finish ethnically, or both? What about culturally? Which country do you support for example in sports confrontations?

Interesting and original choice of username you've made, also. Looking forward to your contributions and I hope you enjoy your stay here. :thumbup

Thank's.

Most of Finnish Swedes (icl. those who lives in Åland) feels today to be connected to Finland as a country (it was't the same less than 100years ago). Just having their own history & culture. Culture point of view they can/will still feel Sweden more close. Bit like French speaking Canadians will feel/support Canada and not France.

I'm bit different as my father is Swede and half of my relatives are Swedes. Plus I'm not fluent in Finnish.

Siebenbürgerin
Sunday, January 7th, 2018, 11:29 AM
Thank's.

Most of Finnish Swedes (icl. those who lives in Åland) feels today to be connected to Finland as a country (it was't the same less than 100years ago). Just having their own history & culture. Culture point of view they can/will still feel Sweden more close. Bit like French speaking Canadians will feel/support Canada and not France.

I'm bit different as my father is Swede and half of my relatives are Swedes. Plus I'm not fluent in Finnish.
Hmm, I see, thank you for the clarification. I'm very interested in the life of peoples from the Germanic enclaves since I'm living in one myself. :) Yes, in a way I don't find it abnormal that Finnish Swedes would support Finland, it's the same with my peoples who support first Transylvania and not Germany. Germany is to us more like a motherland while Transylvania is our fatherland, we've developed a local heritage.

Is not being fluent in Finnish common among Finlandswedes in Ostrobothnia or is this more your personal case since you're half Swedish also? By not fluent you mean you don't speak and understand the language at all, or just not proficient in it? Do you understand some basic Finnish phrases for example or is there no need for it in the region?

I've known from historical studies that Swedish was considered a very "high" and useful language in Finland but that the numbers of "pure" or "only" Swedish speakers nowadays has been decreasing, from 20% in the 1600s to 5.4 % nowadays. That's quite a dramatic decrease.

I was reading once about the preservation of Swedish language in communities in Finland, where the languages institute took the aim to keep it free from Finnish influences like loanwords and phrases. Would you say the Swedish spoken by Finlandswedes is the same standard Swedish spoken in Sweden, or does it have local peculiarities?

Finnish Swede
Sunday, January 7th, 2018, 03:06 PM
Hmm, I see, thank you for the clarification. I'm very interested in the life of peoples from the Germanic enclaves since I'm living in one myself. :) Yes, in a way I don't find it abnormal that Finnish Swedes would support Finland, it's the same with my peoples who support first Transylvania and not Germany. Germany is to us more like a motherland while Transylvania is our fatherland, we've developed a local heritage.

Is not being fluent in Finnish common among Finlandswedes in Ostrobothnia or is this more your personal case since you're half Swedish also? By not fluent you mean you don't speak and understand the language at all, or just not proficient in it? Do you understand some basic Finnish phrases for example or is there no need for it in the region?

I've known from historical studies that Swedish was considered a very "high" and useful language in Finland but that the numbers of "pure" or "only" Swedish speakers nowadays has been decreasing, from 20% in the 1600s to 5.4 % nowadays. That's quite a dramatic decrease.

I was reading once about the preservation of Swedish language in communities in Finland, where the languages institute took the aim to keep it free from Finnish influences like loanwords and phrases. Would you say the Swedish spoken by Finlandswedes is the same standard Swedish spoken in Sweden, or does it have local peculiarities?

Oh, so many questions. Do't even know where to start...

What comes to Finland....just keep in mind....Finnish Swedes fought just similar ways in Civil war 1918 (all being whites side) and WW2....behalf of this country. And faced hard losses too. That might influence to attitude.

Sorry; with fluent I meant ''perfectly''. Most of the Finnish Swedes can talk Finnish...understandable. Of course Finns will notice that (if not anything else...our accent is too soft). I have to say...Finnish is probable one of the most difficult language in whole Europe (to speak it really right).
Yes, I would say all those who lives in bigger cities like Turku, Helsinki, Vaasa, Kotka, Loviisa can do that. People like me (living in rural areas/country sides)...it variates. Many of those might be like me....I can understand Finnish quite well (and better than talk) and also talk if I keep my clauses short and simple. But that is with standard Finnish only. Dialects (especially eastern Finland's dialects)...those are very hard. I was last summer visiting in Imatra (watching road racing). Could't understand half of what Finns guys talked there (using karelian dialect) and as travelling back to home we stopped in Mikkeli...even less. Old woman in marketplace talked so quickly (Savo dialect) that I was forced change english with her (or hers daughter).

%? That's true. And as you know that much, you probable know quite well the history of Finland? That % has gone down since Sweden lost Finland to Russia. There are estimates that if Finland would have stayed apart of Sweden....today everyone here would speak Swedish. Bit ironical that Russian Tsar saved Finnish language.
Ok, Russian era (about 100 years) had some very sad moments (even compare WW2) and especially for us/Finnish Swedes. For example here in Ostrobothnia is a one place where Russians solders killed 800 civilis just in one night. And it is not the only one.
Lets' put it this...you can ask me not talk bad about Russians (here), but you can not ask me to love them.

Oh no...we do't speak standard Swedish. We have own dialect which is different. We pronouce words bit more like Finns talks Finnish. It's very clear, but probable not the most beautiful sounding swedish dialect. In big cities (Turku, Helsinki, Espoo) you can hear that some young Finnish Swedes might even use some Finnish words in their speeches (being totally bilingual). Mostly substantives or adjectives. Again you don't hear that in country sides (where people can not speak Finnish that well). But here we have some unique ''swedish'' sayings which are only used here...and somebody from Stockholm or Gothenburg won't know.

People in Åland (island) speaks only swedish. They have very autonomous position in Finland. Åland for example does not belong to EU (and there are no refugees either....just like step 30years back in Sweden). Even for Finns, you have live there 5 years first and pass Swedish language test before you can buy and own anything (house, land, business etc.). There are still some other ''villages'' in Ostrobothnia which are 98% swedish. But populations of those are very small.

Future? Looks sad (that % above) even if we try to keep up (fight for) our culture.
Åland...no doubt...will survive if it can hold its present special position. But nobody knows as Åland will be (together with Gotland island) the most strategic/critical place in whole Baltic sea area.

BTW: I have been once Santa Lucia :).

Maintenance
Monday, January 8th, 2018, 07:18 AM
People in Åland (island) speaks only swedish. They have very autonomous position in Finland. Åland for example does not belong to EU (and there are no refugees either....just like step 30years back in Sweden). Even for Finns, you have live there 5 years first and pass Swedish language test before you can buy and own anything (house, land, business etc.). There are still some other ''villages'' in Ostrobothnia which are 98% swedish. But populations of those are very small.


BTW: I have been once Santa Lucia :).

Oh hello FS ;)

What does finns think of Åland and the people who live there?

Finnish Swede
Monday, January 8th, 2018, 08:05 AM
Oh hello FS ;)

What does finns think of Åland and the people who live there?

Åland as a island? Basically neutral. As I do't think it cause huge costs or either bring much of money to Finland.

People who lives there?
I think it variates depending where Finn lives. Those Finns who (originally) lives in Turku/Helsinki...have quite neutral/ok attitudes. Those Finns who lives more far from southern coast? Maybe slightly negative.
''Jealousy'' is a one thing here (like against all of Finnish Swedes). Plus Ålands men do not need to come to Finland to handle liability to military services. Finland can not set any army forces/soldiers into Åland (now time of peace) but Finland's responsibility is to defense Åland and those people (in any crises). Some Finns might think that is not fair and Åland causes more harm/troubles than bring any good. I partly understand them, meaning you if for example live 200km away from St. Peterburg (where are much more people than in whole Finland)...but still Åland is very strategic place in Baltic sea area...atleast for Finland, Sweden and Baltic states. It has been that earlier (wars in history) and it is that still today. That's the reality. No matter how average Finns might feel.

Maintenance
Monday, January 8th, 2018, 08:16 AM
Åland as a island? Basically neutral. As I do't think it causes huge costs or either bring much of money to Finland.

People who lives there?
I think it variates depending where Finn lives. Those Finns who (originally) lives in Turku/Helsinki...have quite neutral/ok attitude. Those Finns who lives more far from southern coast? Maybe someway negative.
Jelous is a one thing here (like against all Finnish Swedes). Plus Ålands men do not need to come to Finland to handle liability to military services. Finland can not set any army forces/soldiers into Åland (now time of peace) but it's Finland's responsibility to defense Åland and those people in any crises. Some Finns might think that is not fair and Åland causes more harm/troubles than bring any good.


Ok, i belive Sweden would defend Åland aswell as swedes feel connected to Åland.

Finnish Swede
Monday, January 8th, 2018, 10:46 AM
Ok, i belive Sweden would defend Åland aswell as swedes feel connected to Åland.

I believe that too...and not only because feeling connected to those people, but also because distance from Åland to Stockholm is really....very short.

Yup. I bet the ''triangle/trinity'': Kalingrad - Gotland - Åland does't sound any better in the ears of Swedes than in the ears of Finns.

Anglo-Briton
Monday, January 8th, 2018, 03:27 PM
Ok, i belive Sweden would defend Åland aswell as swedes feel connected to Åland.

Historically they refused to, which is why it belongs to Finland despite being virtually entirely Swedish.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Monday, January 8th, 2018, 03:48 PM
Sweden has been pussified since the Vasas were replaced with foofoo Frenchies.

Anglo-Briton
Monday, January 8th, 2018, 03:53 PM
Sweden has been pussified since the Vasas were replaced with foofoo Frenchies.

Imo, Sweden's cuckness can be seen by their low sexual dimorphism.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Monday, January 8th, 2018, 03:56 PM
Because Dolph Lundgren is so feminine and Victoria Silvstedt is so masculine. Thank you very much.

http://generationiron.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/dolph-lundgren-756582929.jpg
http://img1.store.ksmobile.net/cmnews/20170109/12/115070_d213afc4_148396544417_634_641.jpg

Finnish Swede
Monday, January 8th, 2018, 05:03 PM
Sweden has been pussified since the Vasas were replaced with foofoo Frenchies.

LOL, I live quite close to Vasa http://www.pic4ever.com/images/149fs887355.gif

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Monday, January 8th, 2018, 05:31 PM
https://books.google.com/books?id=FtFDthqmB2wC&pg=PA1&lpg=PA1&dq=gustav+vasa+warrior+king&source=bl&ots=8ZveTlljIe&sig=xE6DoluUouyvdjxUZ96sNDFMdbw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjxwI3l8cjYAhUmleAKHZs4DRIQ6AE IUjAJ#v=onepage&q=gustav%20vasa%20warrior%20king&f=false

https://www.vasamuseet.se/globalassets/vasamuseet/bilder/skeppet/gustav-ii-adolf/skeppet_gustaviiadolf_tillhast.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/28/Swedish_Empire_%281560-1815%29_en2.png/1200px-Swedish_Empire_%281560-1815%29_en2.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/63/Rzeczpospolita_Potop.png

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/why-do-polish-people-hate-the-swedes-the-deluge-in-one-brief-summary.981314/


Swedish invaders robbed the Commonwealth of its most important riches, and most of the stolen items never returned to Poland. Polish estimates, financial losses of Poland are estimated at 4 billion zlotys. Swedish invaders completely destroyed 188 cities and towns, 81 castles, and 136 churches in Poland. The Estimated amount of Polish Military and Civilian Casualties were to many to even count or estimate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Morton_(politician)


Morton was born in Ridley Township, in Chester County, Pennsylvania, now part of Delaware County. His father, John Morton (Senior), was Finnish, who originated from Finland, then a part of the Realm of Sweden, with his great-grandfather, Martti Marttinen, or Måns Mårtensson (name alternated for Swedish military records, later anglicized as Morton), himself a native of Rautalampi, Finland, who had arrived in the Swedish colony of New Sweden in 1654. His mother, Mary Archer, was also of Finnish descent.[1]

Morton was the only son of his father who died in 1724 before Morton was born.[2] When Morton was about seven years old, his mother married John Sketchley, a farmer of English ancestry, who educated Morton. About 1748, Morton married Ann Justis, the great-granddaughter of Finnish colonists to New Sweden. The couple would have nine children. Morton was an active member of the Anglican Church in Chester County.

Danielion
Monday, January 8th, 2018, 06:05 PM
I can understand Finnish quite well (and better than talk) and also talk if I keep my clauses short and simple. But that is with standard Finnish only. Dialects (especially eastern Finland's dialects)...those are very hard. I was last summer visiting in Imatra (watching road racing). Could't understand half of what Finns guys talked there (using karelian dialect) and as travelling back to home we stopped in Mikkeli...even less. Old woman in marketplace talked so quickly (Savo dialect) that I was forced change english with her (or hers daughter).


The way I understand, Swedish generally has a pitch accent which native speakers notice if you don't master it when speaking. I said generally because in Finland and in regions where Finnish was historically spoken Swedish-speakers lack that accent.

I've also learned from Finnish people that they have troubles understanding Swedish from Sweden when they see a film or encounter Swedes in real life. They do all learn Swedish at school, but they often have troubles understanding the words due to the fast and in inarticulate manner Swedes speak.

Is this accurate?

Danielion
Monday, January 8th, 2018, 06:19 PM
Historically they refused to, which is why it belongs to Finland despite being virtually entirely Swedish.

True. Before the Winter War most of them wanted to belong to Sweden, I believe. However they noticed how Finland defended them and Sweden didn't (despite the few volunteers from Sweden; the country itself remained neutral) and this made them more loyal to Finland.

Interestingly, all Finns outside of Åland joke about it because it' the only place in Finland where able-bodied men don't have to serve in the military. I don't know how that came to be.

Maintenance
Monday, January 8th, 2018, 06:20 PM
The way I understand, Swedish generally has a pitch accent which native speakers notice if you don't master it when speaking. I said generally because in Finland and in regions where Finnish was historically spoken Swedish-speakers lack that accent.

I've also learned from Finnish people that they have troubles understanding Swedish from Sweden when they see a film or encounter Swedes in real life. They do all learn Swedish at school, but they often have troubles understanding the words due to the fast and in inarticulate manner Swedes speak.

Is this accurate?

Its very hard to explain how the swedish accent is compared to finnish swedish accent.
I wouldnt say swedish accent has any pitch accent, that would be norwegian.

Anglo-Briton
Monday, January 8th, 2018, 06:21 PM
Because Dolph Lundgren is so feminine and Victoria Silvstedt is so masculine. Thank you very much.

http://generationiron.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/dolph-lundgren-756582929.jpg
http://img1.store.ksmobile.net/cmnews/20170109/12/115070_d213afc4_148396544417_634_641.jpg

Because every Swede looks like Dolph... It is just an obvious, obvious conclusion, that neolithic leptomorphs show low sexual dimorphism. Meanwhile, CMs show high sexual dimorphism, so I wonder what a country like Denmark is like in terms of being pussified.

Also, sexual dimorphism doesn't mean women look masculine!!!

Finnish Swede
Monday, January 8th, 2018, 06:36 PM
The way I understand, Swedish generally has a pitch accent which native speakers notice if you don't master it when speaking. I said generally because in Finland and in regions where Finnish was historically spoken Swedish-speakers lack that accent.

I've also learned from Finnish people that they have troubles understanding Swedish from Sweden when they see a film or encounter Swedes in real life. They do all learn Swedish at school, but they often have troubles understanding the words due to the fast and in inarticulate manner Swedes speak.

Is this accurate?

You mean native Finns (who have studied) swedish at school? For sure our dialect (Finnish Swedes swedish) is more clear/easy to them than standard swedish (your Rikssvenska). Still if you want make it bit easier to them, speak bit slower...it helps always no matter which language we are talking about. It is someway polite too.

I keep german ''painful''...as I always need to wait in the end clause (wait for verb) then try remember/undestand what she/he sayid before....and someway fix all together. But...yes...I'm not good in german anyway. More like bad...actually.

Blod og Jord
Monday, January 8th, 2018, 06:59 PM
Something interesting I read on Wiki, apparently the municipality with the highest proportion of Swedish speakers in the world is Larsmo/Finnish: 'Luoto', a municipality located in the Ostrobothnia region in Finland, with 93% as of 2017. Korsnäs, another municipality in the region has also held this title. Until 2014 Swedish was actually Larsmo's only official language, now is bilingual.

The Swedish People's Party of Finland hold 37.3% of the seats in the local parliament. What would you say about this party, does it represent well the interests of Finland Swedes? As far as I know their main aims are to protect language rights and cultural rights of Finland Swedes.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Svenska_folkpartiet_election_poster_1907 .jpg/440px-Svenska_folkpartiet_election_poster_1907 .jpg

Finnish Swede
Monday, January 8th, 2018, 07:34 PM
Something interesting I read on Wiki, apparently the municipality with the highest proportion of Swedish speakers in the world is Larsmo/Finnish: 'Luoto', a municipality located in the Ostrobothnia region in Finland, with 93% as of 2017. Korsnäs, another municipality in the region has also held this title. Until 2014 Swedish was actually Larsmo's only official language, now is bilingual.

The Swedish People's Party of Finland hold 37.3% of the seats in the local parliament. What would you say about this party, does it represent well the interests of Finland Swedes? As far as I know their main aims are to protect language rights and cultural rights of Finland Swedes.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/00/Svenska_folkpartiet_election_poster_1907 .jpg/440px-Svenska_folkpartiet_election_poster_1907 .jpg

Ostrobothnia? That has been known already some time (''thank's'' to immigrants/refugees in Sweden).

Svenska Folk partiet? They have done great job to support and protect Swedish culture and Swedish language in Finland. We have even Swedish University (Åbo Academy) in Turku :).
BUT and big BUT...they are very EU positive, and they share more positive attitudes against refugees than 3 biggest Finnish political parties do.

Ítreksjóð
Monday, January 8th, 2018, 08:29 PM
Interesting. Have there any genetic tests been made and if so what did they reveal? Are they genetically closer to the Swedes or to the Finns? Are intermarriages between Finns and Finland-Swedes commonplace?

Finnish Swede
Monday, January 8th, 2018, 09:51 PM
Interesting. Have there any genetic tests been made and if so what did they reveal? Are they genetically closer to the Swedes or to the Finns? Are intermarriages between Finns and Finland-Swedes commonplace?

Genetically they variates from quite close to Swedes (who lives in Stockholm area) to quite close to Western Finns. And everything between.

I would say they tend to marry another Finland Swede (or Swede like my mom did), but some yes ends up marry Finns too. Finding a partner among of Finland Swedes can sometimes be hard.

Rodskarl Dubhgall
Wednesday, May 23rd, 2018, 04:38 AM
I think Swedes and Finns make perfect couplings. Whoever says the same about Dutch and Belgians can't disagree. My sister gave birth to an Irish baby girl recently. Are British and Irish not a great combination either? It's hard for nature to not go this way.