Ainu people

[Prognathous]

Out of idle curiosity, what race are the Ainu people of Japan? They seem to have characteristics that go across the board.

[Evolved]

http://languageportraits.net/panels/images/Ainu-Photo2.jpg

Ainu means "human" - Ainu means "us"; the Ainu of northern Japan call themselves by a name that asserts their identity. An intensely spiritual culture, the Ainu believe that living and non-living things are kamuy (gods visiting the earthly world.) Their culture has roots stretching back more than ten thousand years. Recent DNA research shows that they are descended from the ancient Jomon people of Japan. Physically, the Ainu differed from Japanese and other nearby Asian peoples in language and especially in appearance; their eyes were deep-set, their bodies muscular and hairy.

http://www2.gol.com/users/coynerhm/Ainu.jpg

When Japan opened to the west in the 1860s Westerners were really surprised to discover people in Hokkaido among the Ainu culture who looked very much like Caucasians. The question of the origins of the Ainu, the biological origins of the Ainu is still very much up in the air. For a long time it's been thought that they were related to Caucasians because they looked very unlike the Mongoloid peoples. Today DNA testing has been done and despite some evidence that there is some sort of non-Mongoloid features in the Ainu, in another words perhaps some Caucasian or central Asian, there still is no definite answers to the questions of their origin. Some people think see the relationships to North American Indians, to Alaskan Eskimos, some even to Southeast Asians. So although they are definitely not related to Korean and Japan biological origins they look like some late Paleolithic peoples who became isolated at the end of the ice age and who occupied these islands and who later on were sort of swamped by invasions of Mongoloid related peoples. So they are really a special and distinct racial and biological group that has long, long roots in the area.

http://homepage1.nifty.com/whotarou/zakki/hyosi/ainu.jpg

Ainu
Males
Crania: Crania Length:190mm
Crania Breadth:143mm
Cranial Index: 75
Nasal: Nasal Height:51mm
Nasal Breadth:28mm
Nasal Index: 54
Females
Crania: Crania Length:179mm
Crania Breadth:137mm
Cranial Index: 76
Nasal: Nasal Height:48mm
Nasal Breadth:26mm
Nasal Index: 54

Sforza's Genetic Distances Between 42 World Populations (http://www.racearchives.com/calc/sforza_profiles.asp?popid=12&dbname=sforza42world)

JAPAN'S LOST WHITE TRIBE: THE AINU (http://www.stormfront.org/whitehistory/hwr6a.htm) (I don't agree with this site or that the Ainu should be called "white" but the picture examples are good.)

Ainu have features associated with other races, this alone does not prove a link to those races. Just that in whatever climate they lived in being hairy and having features different from mongoloids was advantageous. There is nothing European in their DNA as far as I know. Latvians can have broad, low bridged noses, this doesn't mean they are related to Negroes. Australian aborigines can have blond hair, they are not related to Vikings. :)

Race is just natural variaton within a species arising from different physical and (yes) mental needs, changing over time and combining to form new variations. I doubt any pure races exist today, a fact which is manipulated to "prove" race does not exist. For instance, some scientists came to the conclusion that race does not exist after studying Brazilians. They compared the race subjects self-identified as with actual DNA data. If I combine different ingredients and make cake batter, does the existence of the batter disprove that the eggs, milk, flower and sugar existed on their own? :)

What do you make of this? :)
http://www.ufodisclosure.com/skulls.shtml

[Allenson]

[IMG]What do you make of this? :)
http://www.ufodisclosure.com/skulls.shtml

I've seen these skulls before in books and on TV documentaries. I guess the most accepted explanation is deliberate and almost ritual skull deformation starting a young age when the bones of the skull are soft and more malleable.

Very weird though....... :confused

[racial_intellect]

ainus speak a language not too different from korean

long ago manchurians had blue eyes and blond hair accroding to some of the early missionaries to china they have encountered some manchus who had blue eyes. But Manchurians don't speak an aryan language and are related to the tungus korean branch. Maybe they are ancient Manchus? altho this is a general term, they were probably not your nazi poster child, ataturk had blue eyes but his phenotype, nose and skull shape doesnt look very alien if he were from korea.

[cosmocreator]

Ainu means "human" - Ainu means "us";

A Japanese person told me Ainu means aboriginal. In one of the books by Coon, The Living Races of Man, I think, there is a photo of the backside of one of these Ainu. He is as hairy as a chimp.

[cosmocreator]

This guy sort of looks Hawaiian or Polynesian which are a Australoid/Mongoloid mix.

http://languageportraits.net/panels/images/Ainu-Photo2.jpg

[Evolved]

Yes, Atatürk had reddish blond hair, dark blue round eyes, light skin, a prominent nose, tall stature and facial hair. Other than that he looked exactly like a Korean. :think

http://clubs.asua.arizona.edu/~tsa/ataturk.jpg

[Evolved]

I should have added:

Other than that he looked exactly like a Korean. :D

Funny, whenever someone references this forum they have to make a point "this is really terrible stuff." In some people's minds it is better to be a pedophile or serial killer than have any kind of racial awareness. :anieyes

[Gladstone]

Funny, whenever someone references this forum they have to make a point "this is really terrible stuff." In some people's minds it is better to be a pedophile or serial killer than have any kind of racial awareness. :anieyes

That is true. There has been problems at times in the past of abusive behaviour between groups but the answer is to correct the behaviour, not to destroy entire races, which is what the rad-libs would do. Using that mindset it would mean the answer to problems between individuals would be to simply kill the persons, problem solved. But hey, isn't that what the rad-libs did when in power in Russia and China in the years between 1917-1967 and the hundred million they murdered? Thorburn really hit the nail on the head when he referred to them as "anti-humans", not only hating the idea that people naturally form groups (ie families, race, etc) but hating the individuals (ie people) that make up those groups, ultimately even hating the idea of individuality itself. That's what happens when one lets ideology dictate rather than reality.

I thought it was particularly amusing on the thread linked how the one fellow let the little commisar in himself come out and try to tell the other what he should read.

Gladstone

[Nordgau]

One is considered "in", chiq, "aufgeklärt", educated, free of prejudices, humane, tolerant, intelligent, a democrat, a leader, and an aspirant for promotion if one subscribes to them, and is denounced as "out", ugly, "ewig-gestrig", bigotted, prejudiced, racist, intolerant, dumb, a Nazi, an outcast, and a canditate for prison (or, if lucky, only for dismissal) if one doesn't.


Not to forget that those leftists who analyze the "structures" of society are "rational", while "thinking in categories of race and folk" is "irrational". :eyes

[torrent]

Yes, Atatürk had reddish blond hair, dark blue round eyes, light skin, a prominent nose, tall stature and facial hair. Other than that he looked exactly like a Korean. :think

http://clubs.asua.arizona.edu/~tsa/ataturk.jpg

[QUOTE]long ago manchurians had blue eyes and blond hair accroding to some of the early missionaries to china they have encountered some manchus who had blue eyes. But Manchurians don't speak an aryan language and are related to the tungus korean branch. Maybe they are ancient Manchus? altho this is a general term, they were probably not your nazi poster child,[QUOTE]
i had never heard of those light manchus. if any more information is available i would appreciate. tongus and manchu are the same people the machus are the southern branch.

[QUOTE]ataturk had blue eyes but his phenotype, nose and skull shape doesnt look very alien if he were from korea.[QUOTE]

that is a rather deep question southeast asia has austric mixture and so sometimes it confuses things.
i think the similarity between ataturk ainus and koreans is the magdalenian/chancelade heritage. yes there is something kumid about Ataturk and there is sth kumid about this man too.(the link below)
http://www.forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=4191
he would even be classified as celtic if he was found in the kurgans.

[Xanthochroid]

Does anyone have any illustrations, concept drawings, or photographs of a pure Ainu before they became extinct from Mongoloid invasions and inter-breeding?

All I can find on the internet is hybridized Ainu elders with long white hair, and its believable for a Mongoloid elder to have white hair. :coffee:
http://www.japonsko.tnet.cz/informace/ainu_01.jpg

Was there even once a pure light haired & eyed Caucasoid Japanese race? :scratch:

[DreamWalker]

Does anyone have any illustrations, concept drawings, or photographs of a pure Ainu before they became extinct from Mongoloid invasions and inter-breeding?

All I can find on the internet is hybridized Ainu elders with long white hair, and its believable for a Mongoloid elder to have white hair. :coffee:
http://www.japonsko.tnet.cz/informace/ainu_01.jpg

Was there even once a pure light haired & eyed Caucasoid Japanese race? :scratch:
Years ago I read a book which had a diagram showing 5 Aryan tribes immigrating from India 5-6 thousand years ago, 4 of the tribes went to the NW, toward Europe and creating the famous ancient civilizations on the way, but the 5th went North and then East through Eastern Mongolia, toward what is now Korea and one assumes eventually to Japan. Unfortunately I do not remember the name of this book, if anyone does know, let me know please.

I can believe this, as a small percentage of Oriental individuals in those regions have wide upper heads and narrow jawlines, in sharp contrast to the typical Chinese round-faced individuals, which combined with the classic oriental eye shape, look suprisingly simliar to the pics of so-called Aliens.

And Savitri Devi describes Ghengis Khan as having blue eyes, I do not know where she got this info.

[Randvithr]

The problem is that there aren´t any real genetic evidence of the aledged relation between the ainu and caucasoids.

If one can find europid genetic evidence in northern africans on should be able to detect it in the ainu if present.

I believe that the ainu are a strain of their own not at all related to caucasoids, but not in its whole related to the rest of the mongoloid people who invaded japan. But in race I definetly believe them to be closer to mongoloids than, if at all, to caucasoids.

But who knows what the future might show..

[frankfurter]

My understanding of the Ainu is that they were never light-eyed or light-haired, only that they are non-Mongoloid. I doubt that there are any photographs of pure-looking Ainus, because they are so thoroughly mixed with the surrounding populations, although I suppose that at least a person who is a relatively pure-looking Ainu could crop up from time to time as a re-emergence.

[frankfurter]

The occasional blue eyes that appear among a small minority of Tibetans and other Mongoloid peoples probably has its origin in peoples other than the Ainu, perhaps the infamous Tocharians or Iranian-related peoples.

[SouthernBoy]

They're Asian Cro-Magnoid variants; similar to Australoids.

There is very little genetic relatedness between Caucasoids and Ainuids.

[Agrippa]

They're Asian Cro-Magnoid variants; similar to Australoids.

There is very little genetic relatedness between Caucasoids and Ainuids.

Thats correct. Mongolids evolved rather recently under extreme pressure during the LGM into two forms (Arctic and Sinid). Ainuids are related to both and were just not in the East Asian population during the time of the selection of Mongolid features. The Mongolid types expanded afterwards North and West (Arctic/Tungid) and and South and East (Sinid) over more protomorphic Cromagnoid (in the widest sense) and Australoid populations. If looking at typical Ainuids they are not that close to real Europids, just their Mongolid features are weaker. I think its absurd to say that f.e. Arabids are no Caucasoids/Europids on the one hand, but to claim that Ainuids are even closer to Aryans than some European types...of course not too much people say that.
In the past the superficial similarities lead to the conclusion that both Ainuid and Weddoid ("Dravidian", South Indian-tribal) variants were considered being at least Protoeuropid. Even in such a scheme its obvious how far away they are since Weddids are the other extreme of the Indian subcontinent to "Aryans"/IE/Upper Castes.

[lei.talk]

Savitri Devi describes Ghengis Khan as having blue eyes,
I do not know where she got this info.the contemporary description of ghengis khan
that galvanised me:
"hair like fire, eyes like the sky and tall as a tree".

[Randvithr]

the contemporary description of ghengis khan
that galvanised me:
"hair like fire, eyes like the sky and tall as a tree".

Which doesn´t have to mean he was blond, blue eyed and tall as most nordics. It could simply just be a way to describe him as being super human.

But of course, he could have been a nordic. If nordics went al the way to China its possibly that the ruling class was of whole, or partly, nordic race. But still, I don´t see anything conclusive about his racial origin.

[Agrippa]

I saw Tungids with blue eyes but otherwise fully typical Tungid (extreme) Mongolid type. So pigmentation is just one feature and doesnt have to come in combination with the others...It can even occur without any genetic relation to real Nordid Europids.

[lei.talk]

If nordics went al the way to China
its possibly that the ruling class
was of whole, or partly, nordic race. the manchu comprised the mandarin bureaucracy
which organised the population for optimal production
and collected the tribute,
which they delivered to the passing horsemen
at the border.

as to the appearance of those horsemen
(circulating the great plains of eur-asian basin),
there are no known contemporaneous illustrations
- only written ones.

[lei.talk]

ironically, it was the success of ghengis khan
at unifying the tribes of horsemen
that brought an end to that long-standing system.
plague swept the winter grasslands of the horsemen
(recall troop-movements spreading influenza in 1918).
many manchu immigrated to the area
in an effort to sustain the system of tribute
and were wiped out. traveling the silk road,
that same plague reached the mediterranean.
without the stablising effect of the horsemen's demands,
china was in chaos for centuries.

the previously-dominated han population has been unforgiving.
for the past half-century,
the current regime has maintained an oppressive policy
against the homeland of the manchu
and the western provinces
(where the horsemen wintered
with their flocks of sheep).

[Mazorquero]

This race inhabits in the japanese island Hokkaido, being Sapporo its capital city. To me they look practically equal to any other japanese, but they have different traditions and rituals than those of the rest of Japan. I read that they are not a mongoloid sub race, but related to lappids. Although being strange to me, it didn't surprise me very much, because I also heard that japanese languages are related to ugrofinnish ones. Does this mean they are a white or caucasian subrace?

[Nseag]

This race inhabits in the japanese island Hokkaido, being Sapporo its capital city. To me they look practically equal to any other japanese, but they have different traditions and rituals than those of the rest of Japan. I read that they are not a mongoloid sub race, but related to lappids. Although being strange to me, it didn't surprise me very much, because I also heard that japanese languages are related to ugrofinnish ones. Does this mean they are a white or caucasian subrace?

The Ainu is an ethnic group who arrived surely from Siberia to Hokkaido mixed of Nordid+Mongoloid, the Japanese arrived later by the south from the Chinese coasts being much more mongoloids. The Ainu ended up to shut in itself in the islands of the North and some went away mixing with the Japanese.:thumbup

I don't have links in English:(

[Pro-Alpine]

They are genetically between The Japanese People and the Pacific peoples. Meaning they are not Caucasoid. Probably a mixture of Melanesians/Polynesians and ethnic Japanese.